How to play against Grim Embrace?

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Anniehere
Anniehere Member Posts: 1,257

It seems that regardless of the circumstances, the generator I'm working on keeps getting blocked. It's become a repetitive cycle where the generator gets blocked, then I or someone else gets spotted. When we resume working on the generator, someone ends up getting hooked and the match is hopeless, making it challenging to complete the generator.

Any suggestions for perks or tips to counter this perk would be greatly appreciated.

Answers

  • Hex_Ignored
    Hex_Ignored Member Posts: 1,663
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    I have yet to come across a killer that wasn't running GE+DMS. Also thrilling tremors doesn't kick you off gens and thus has no synergy with DMS.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,332
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    Well, I have, but that's not really the point. The point is that you don't actually have to do anything if the killer's running Grim Embrace on its own, that's just a small amount of downtime on your objective equivalent to when Thrilling Tremors blocks the gen you're next to/running towards. It's happened to me, and it's kinda annoying, but not a huge deal.

    It's not about whether Thrilling has synergy with DMS, because Grim Embrace doesn't really have meaningful synergy with DMS. It's about whether the amount of downtime you have to endure three times a match is really all that much, and the answer is... no. Thrilling Tremors is just an example of a perk that blocks gens for longer, more frequently.

    Now, the fourth proc of Grim Embrace is definitely much more noticeable, but that one hasn't changed.

  • Green_Sliche
    Green_Sliche Member Posts: 590
    edited January 31
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    12 seconds wait won't make difference if you are working on safe gen. Killer is more likely to start scouting near the hooked survivor so you only are prevented from working on the gen for few seconds. Do note that gen won't regress so you don't lose much. I'd debate if it's that much of a loss of time for survivor given that it takes time for a killer to get a down and hook a survivor, which is in most cases ( except insta-down capable killers ) is more than 12 seconds, plus the need to go for unhooked survivor, which can be any time extra time here.

    In short : A bit of patience is all you need to deal with GE and DMS combo.

  • Green_Sliche
    Green_Sliche Member Posts: 590
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    I ensure you this would be more of a case if in SoloQ people could see each other's perk and act accordingly. In SWF it's quite the common case along with hook sabo / flashlight loadout.

  • CLHL
    CLHL Member Posts: 131
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    Don't get caught and it won't activate, exactly like Pain Resonance. You can't blame a perk for working as intended. One eliminates progress and the other blocks the progress. It's bad enough that both are limited to four instances based on a non written rulebook.

  • MalekithHatesSnow
    MalekithHatesSnow Member Posts: 253
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    Good. Why are we balancing for casuals as survivor but pros as killer always?

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,182
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    12 seconds is a very very small amount of time. Keep in mind that chases are balanced around lasting 45 seconds, and after a killer has downed a survivor it will take them


    • 2.7 second wipe animation
    • 3 second pickup animation
    • ~8 seconds to walk to a hook
    • 1.5 second hook animation
    • For a total of 15.2 seconds

    My point here isn't that it counters that or anything, its simply a time estimate. 12 seconds is LESS TIME than it takes for a killer, who has already downed a survivor, to pick the survivor up off the ground and hook them, which is a fundamental thing that happens nearly every single game and multiple times at that.


    Grim embrace isn't meant to have a "counter" so to speak, it is a perk that actively encourages the killer to spread pressure and hook multiple different survivors instead of tunneling someone out. Therefore, if you hard tunnel someone out, you aren't getting value out the of the perk, and you may as well just have 3 perks. Thus the "counter" to grim embrace, is that in order to use it effectively, multiple survivors are going to get hooked and thus will have more time in the game of having 4 survivors in the match.


    Would you rather the perk not exist at all and we just continue on with the meta of hard tunneling someone out of the game as fast as possible?

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,645
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    Is this truly where we are heading?

    Well.... Good that Sadako is incentivised to slug again, am I right?

    ...

    I'm dying inside.

  • Murgleïs
    Murgleïs Member Posts: 1,051
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    People are crying for 12s lmao.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105
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    Funny one. Comp players with this build would demolish any group of top tier survivors. They would not stand a chance.

  • ButterFlee13
    ButterFlee13 Member Posts: 269
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    12s, can take you to another gen. stop being passive

  • CountOfTheFog
    CountOfTheFog Member Posts: 1,960
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    I'm sorry, I've really only gotten into the game extensively the past 2 years and am relatively new to even caring about forums, patch notes, ect.,

    I was a casual who played 200 hours then left for pretty close to a year.

    If what you're saying is true, that those are the ways they balance for Killer, always as pros, that is unfair.

    I love both sides. I play Survivor by day and Killer by night.

  • MalekithHatesSnow
    MalekithHatesSnow Member Posts: 253
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    That IS how they balance for killer why do you think Sadako was nerfed? That's exactly how BHVR balances if we're talking about a Spirit Nurse or Blight we're assuming they have 8k hours comp full meta build but when we talk about survivor we always ignore SWF and treat every survivor like they just installed the game.

  • CountOfTheFog
    CountOfTheFog Member Posts: 1,960
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    I see your point more clearly now. I personally go against some new Killers playing Nurse, Spirit and Blight - or at least new to those specific Killers. Some, if not most are running Tier 1 or 2 perks and certainly not always meta.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105
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    You doubt that? Cool. I know for a fact that killers would dominate with this build in comp. And not only with Nurse/Blight.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,182
    edited January 31
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    I'll be eagerly awaiting a youtube video from you of a match between some comp players, maybe organize one, i'm sure hens/aryun would be up to it. They tend to like doing experiments like this.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105
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    No worries, this will happen sooner or later by default. Unless they nerf Grim very quick.

    And by the way, there were already showmatches killer running DMS, UW and PR. Now imgine this build with Grim Embrace.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,182
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    Would still like to see those matches. Because 9 out of 10 times, the survivors will win.

  • Alen_Starkly
    Alen_Starkly Member Posts: 1,109
    edited January 31
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    Do you honestly think killers won't be doing the following: bring Pain Res + GE, then tunnel someone out of the game, then use the remaining 3 stacks of Pain Res and GE to prevent the remaining 3 survivors from finishing the gens?

    We all know what many killers have been doing despite Pain Res change that encourages you to hook 4 different survivors. In case you don't know, I'll let you know - hook the first survivor on the scourge hook, tunnel them out of the game, then use the remaining 3 Pain Res stacks in 3 v 1 to make their match miserable.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,395
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    You pray the killer doesn't use it.

    Other than that, you're screwed.

  • solarjin1
    solarjin1 Member Posts: 1,860
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    You really really really want to know??? (slight chuckle)

    Have a team of good loopers who always give a great chase so grim embrace don't keep pushing u off.

    So Step 1 dont play solo q

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,395
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    Iirc, you sent me a link to that video a while ago in a different discussion. The results were pretty balanced.

    The Nurse got 2 kills. The Blight lost his first match (1k), then got a 4k the second time, the Spirit got a 4k (but her addons have been nerfed since) and the Wesker got 1 kill.

    I'm pretty sure the Spirit would have no performed quite so well with her addons today. So let's not pretend like this is a good reflection of the game's balance now. It has also been well established that Nurse and Blight are overpowered. You cannot take them as the standard.

    But even if they are overpowered, the fact that they didn't stomp the survivors back then also shows, that survivors are pretty damn strong as well. It was a more or less balanced outcome, if you take all 3 matches together. 7/12 survivors killed(~58% kill rate) is pretty close to BHVR's desired 60% kill rate. Now imagine a world in which we actually nerf Blight and Nurse (possibly Spirit again) to be more on par with the other killers. That would not weaken the survivors. So the game would then swing pretty wildly to survivor sided.

    My point is that both sides have things that are too strong and that these things should be nerfed, so that we can establish a more stable balance.

    Please note, I did not consider DMS + GE here. This should have not made it to live and I'm certain it's only a matter of time until they do something about that.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,182
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    otz is not a comp survivor. But yeah, i watch hens and ayrun, and notice how often ayrun bullys (not in the toxic sense) random killers with flashlights and such and how often escapes?

  • Vlarian
    Vlarian Member Posts: 162
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    I mean sure, but keep in mind this is across EVERY SINGLE GEN, and an additional 30 secs of blocking when all survivors are hooked. That's guarenteed 66 seconds of slowdown, which adds up with more people on different gens, and without any other perks involved. Deadlock is one of the strongest killer perks in the game because it has guarenteed 2 mins of slowdown, now imagine that, with DMS and Grim Embrace. We're getting into pre-nerf Hex: Ruin levels of slowdown. The perk on it's own is fine, but the ability to stack multiple un-counterable slowdown effects is gonna make survivor feel awful to play, and is very powerful.

  • AzshFayd
    AzshFayd Member Posts: 37
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    if some of the teammates I've been getting are anything to go by, you just equip sole survivor and wait in the basement now.

  • Shirtless_Myers
    Shirtless_Myers Member Posts: 361
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    If you're in solo queue, you can play for a hatch/gate with Sole Survivor/Wake Up or bring a key with Left Behind. Otherwise, you don't stand much chance, and the entire match appears to be a waste of time. The random teammates you'll get don't last long enough in the chase, and camping/tunneling is encouraged by the developers.

    Even then, you can still lose as there's often a structure between the two gates that the killer can stand on to see both without moving.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,182
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    Right, but now look at deadlock, which blocks the gen with the most progress, which is far more useful and powerful. And with deadlock, you do nothing to activate it, you just lose a gen and it blocks. With grim embrace, you have to hook a survivor for the first time, and you get 12 seconds. Then after the 4th one, you get 40 seconds. For a total of 76 seconds. Now look at something like pain res. Which gives you a full 90 seconds. The difference being that grim embrace blocks all gens yes. But not all gens are worked on at all times, is rare to have more than 1-2 gens being worked on after the first couple are done where you'll see the most of the value from GE.


    Also gen blocking is not gen regression. Blocking is weaker than regression, because regression KEEPS regressing until the survivor repairs it to 5%. Whereas the GE does not make the gen lose any progress after its effect is over.


    At this point, i'd say GE is comparable to pain res in strength, but just does things a bit differently.

  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,813
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    Simply just don’t get hooked noob