I'm guessing the DS will receive another Nerf
Since its release this perk has been receiving nerf after nerf.
and I see some people were excited to see DS in the map and thought that DS would finally receive a buff to be a true anti-tunnel.
Remember, players thought that Self-Care would receive a buff and it turned out to be Nerf without any logical reason
I don't know what Nerf will be like. Maybe it will be deactivated after throwing a pallet , and reducing the stun from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds
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Allows the survivor to escape from the killer's grasp...onto a hook.
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It'll actually make you 15% hindered in order to promote tunneling! They are going to nerf Sadako's tunneling potential as compensation though.
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The developers said they aim to address frustrations of the perk for both sides.
I'm thinking it will be reworked maybe.
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Reduce the size of the Skillcheck zone to 0%.
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I won't surprise if they make it not stackable with OtR or DH. Something like if you get deep wound, DS deactivates.
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Oh god, I can totally see them making DS disable upon getting deep wound to bring it in line with other 'extra health state' perks.
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Sadako is the new Pig confirmed
“nerf pig” memes have now been replaced, all hail the new queen
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Excited for the new changes coming her way real soon!
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15% is low, 100% is very appropriate
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Every nerf but the one in 6.1.0 was completely justified though. DS had been a problem for a very long time. Then it finally became a mostly healthy perk. I expect it to go back to its pre 6.1.0 state.
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Double it and give it to the next person
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If you hit the skill check you die.
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DS nerf wasn't justified, let alone completely. It being disabled during endgame was 100% justified but the stun going from five seconds to three was silly. Three seconds (not even that since you need to wait for the drop animation) only gives you one Nurse blink worth of distance and yes I've seen it actually happen with my own eyes. DS is completely avoidable if you just don't tunnel. I suppose there was an issue when people with it would body block, but that's an easy slug these days. Killer has become a really solid role and, by slugging, you'll have one survivor guaranteed off a gen and one having to get off a gen to heal them up off the ground. Taking hits whilst someones tunneling has proven to be rather ineffective in solo queue which makes up most of the playerbase.
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I mean technically it was justified 5s ds was made to counter enduring
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I actually think it'll get the Calm Spirit nerf. Something will get added to it, seemingly a buff, but the conditions around it will be detrimental and benefit the killer in some capacity. Devs will act like it's a buff though.
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Five seconds wasn't that much and it did what it was supposed to do - deter killers from tunneling and actually get them punished for it. Three seconds doesn't punish a killer at all and the perk deactivates for the entire game. It's one perk slot just gone because you stunned a TUNNELING killer for three seconds.
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Anything other than removing the timer shall be viewed as a hate crime towards solo survivors.
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OK, you got a laugh out of me
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The stun last 3 seconds but how much time does the perk actually buy if you use it properly, or even improperly for that matter
Heres a near worst case scenario with ds not counting other perks of just standing still
Get unhooked, Get hit 2x (5.4s), Get picked up (3s), get dropped / stunned (3s), get hit (2.7s) get picked up (3s), get hooked (1.5s), worst case scenario the perk bought your team 8.7s of additional time, with a total interaction time of 18.6s which is time for your team in the worst case scenario.
Add travel times to hooks or heck even looping and not standing still and you get some pretty good value, perk buys a lot more time then that 3s stun leads on because that 3s is 8.7s of cooldowns, stuns, and animations
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I chuckled whilst writing it lmao
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DId you actually read the whole sentence? I said, that the nerf in 6.1.0 was not justified. The ones prior to that however were very much needed. Survivor dribbling does not need to be a thing. Neither do survivors need to be invincible while working on objectives.
Although the part about DS in end game, I do not agree with. The killer didn't tunnel you and now as a reward you are guaranteed to escape. It should be the other way around because the killer decided to play nice. Not that it matters anyway. Base kit BT has the same result. You get 44 metres far. That is about half the map and you can also use exhaustion perks, windows, pallets or have your team mates bodyblock for you to buy yourself even more time. There is no way the killer can prevent you from getting out once you're off the hook.
I had suggested to buff DS to where it would disable a killer's power for a set amount of time, the timer would be increased to 90 seconds and also to increase the stun time to 7 seconds instead of 5. But this should come with safety measures like that survivor not being able to use Unbreakable (we do not need this meta back), flashlights or pallets for as long as DS is active and it deactivating when someone else is hooked after they got unhooked.
That last bit doesn't make any sense. Taking hits is just as effective in solo queue as it is in a SWF. It's just harder to pull off because you don't have the communication to set it up. However, when you can pull it off, you get the exact same results. SWFs do not increase the hit cooldown for a killer. Neither does solo queue mean that the tunneled survivor gets less distance from it. It has the exact same effect every time. It only needs to be done correctly.
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My bad, I didn't really understand your point because the discussion went from DS to 6.1.0 out of no where and I thought "the one" meant like some other important change you didn't agree with since that patch was pretty huge and it feels like an eternity ago to remember. By saying DS was a problem and then saying the nerf made it a mostly healthy perk, I assumed you meant you agreed with the change and were annoyed it's going back to its previous state. Thanks for clarifying.
Taking hits in solo queue only hurts you in the long run. I could hop on a game right now, take a hit for a survivor in chase, and they would go down in approximately twenty seconds anyway. Subtract the healing time and you gained practically nothing. Taking hits is only effective if the survivor knows what they are doing and can loop, this eliminates most of solo queue. Without communication nor an actual strategy, its pretty difficult to make it effective. Most killers being played right now are high mobility so the cooldown doesn't affect them as much as it does for M1 killers which people have lost the appeal to play as recently. There's instances where it helps for sure, but most of the time you're just shooting yourself in the foot. I can't recall how many times people trying to take hits for me would sandbag me instead since it happened that often. That's one huge advantage SWF have over solo queue. If you can manage to effectively do that on solo queue, your MMR has been blessed and you should find a comp team because your game sense is really good.
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Well, if you didn't tunnel, you would have to take more time downing them in chase since they would be healthy instead of injured. That's nothing compared to the amount of time they could've spent looping you.
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I could hop on a game right now, take a hit for a survivor in chase, and they would go down in approximately twenty seconds anyway.
In that case I can only say one thing. Skill issue. Not on your part but on that survivor's part. The same could happen in a SWF. But because you'll probably play with people that are about as experienced as you, it's less likely. This is not a solo queue issue in that sense. Just poor matchmaking. These are also the kinds of survivors that will use their DS and still die a minute later. You cannot help someone that is killing themself (even if unintentional) by playing badly.
[...] M1 killers which people have lost the appeal to play as recently.
Can't say I noticed anything special in that regard. It's pretty much the same as always with the exception of Billy having a pretty high pick rate (which I'm all for) for me. M1 killers aren't all too popular, agreed. But that isn't a new development. They're simply undertuned (most of them anyway). I can imagine that the STBFL nerf isn't exactly helping this situation either. Especially since its only real issue remains, though it is weaker overall.
I use Bond + Open Handed as a survivor. That allows me make better informed decisions and enables easier bodyblocks. I don't think my survivor MMR is too high. I consider myself to be a pretty bad looper. But it works well enough. Obviously I will not bodyblock in every chase but should it be necessary, I'll be there. And I have seen many solo queue team mates do it too. I had a game against a Chucky not too long ago in which we bodyblocked him 3 times in one chase. That allowed us to get 3 people out.
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STBFL changes wiped them out from my lobbies weirdly. I haven't played too many games today so I don't have a crazy good sample to derive info from but yeah, just finding it real difficult to play solo queue, I guess, without getting irritated.
It's a very bad skill issue on their part, I agree wholeheartedly. MMR just fails to do its job. I'm comfortable facing the killers I do get matched with and I put up a fight, but my team fall like flies or lead the killer to a gen being worked on 24/7. It made me hover over a friend request I got after a game a while back and consider friending them because they were decent, alas I'm not really confident to voice chat so I didn't wanna bother them.
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Isn't calm spirit a decent perk? Haven't played for a while
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AWWWWWW, they're nerfing STBFL? But my doctor....
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I'm referring to the "buff" it received in update 6.1. They added the silent chest unlocking/totem cleansing but in exchange it's 30% slower, which makes it hard when you're the one finding a hex totem. The devs called it a buff but it's widely agreed by the general player base that the downside negates any apparent buff.
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They're just going to increase it to 5s and call it a win.
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I mean if they had enough time to heal they more likely than not have time to get away and just not get tunneled
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We're talking about tunneling here right? Why would you give them enough time to heal and then tunnel? Just go for the other person at that point because they won't have DS activated...
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Problem is that the perk costs a hookstate to use, and is easily circumvented. Losing half the distance/stun time, which was the majority of its value, was a colossal nerf to a perk that greatly improved game health. It did not deserve this nerf, and the game as a whole is worse off for it.
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What's exactly the frustrations about DS from killers side? I don't see any. The distance survivors make is laughable. The perk needs buff.
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I love when people are saying that but ignoring the other facts.
DS buffed to 5 seconds because of Enduring, that's correct. But in this time, maps was survivorside. There was not so much dead zones. Dead Hard was still op perk and it was on all survivor builds. And it was pre-6.1.0 update which means killers were weaker than now.
But now?
Maps are full with dead zones. So DS is not guaranteed to give you chance to make it any loop if you are at deadzone.
Killers are stronger.
Dead Hard only has 2 use and it's no longer the most popular perk.
So yeah for this time, 3 seconds DS was fine because you would use other tools to stop tunnelling. But now? It's garbage perk with current meta.
But we love to ignore things, are not we?
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That's not the most important distinction. Back when it was 3 seconds, it didn't require you to be hooked at all, and didn't disable on a conspic action. In other words, it was a purely offensive perk, not anti-tunnel, or avoidable.
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There’s no reason to nerf it any further.
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Same, because I’ve not seen any killers complain about DS since the last nerf it got.
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To be fair, you're missing some pretty important context in your reasoning here. DS was nerfed multiple times since release, but it also needed those nerfs, which it currently doesn't.
Even the big nerf that led to the state it's in now came with another justified nerf, it disabling in the endgame. DS was, for a very long time, a problem perk causing pretty big frustrations in the game- we only had a brief window where it had the right stun duration but also disabled on Conspicuous Actions, and even then it still gave you a free escape in the endgame if you weren't tunnelled before then.
Now, though, it's just weak. If it isn't on the slate for a full rework (which I hope it isn't, it doesn't need that), then it'll just be getting buffed. Maybe another minor nerf to keep it anti-tunnel alongside the buff, like adding something to the Conspicuous Actions list, but overall I'm confident it's getting buffed.
Also, there was a very logical reason to nerf Self Care if you take into account why 6.1.0 happened, but that's a separate topic.
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You lose a majority of the value that you never had to work for, if you want ds to be a better perk you have to do most of the work go down in a good area bring perks that synergize with it like dead hard or lithe to make it to a good area or windows of opportunity to find a good area, its boring if the perk does all the work
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please buff it it needs a buff-my surv brother
i agree with my brother-my killer self
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i was about to write a comment about how i'm surprised they didn't just buff ds to 5 seconds again and check how that goes as it should be a relatively easy change, but knowing this game, that relatively simple change might make pig go invisible or something.
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Technically you could avoid by dribbling, but it wasn't always possible.
Since it was an anti-momentum perk, adjusting the stun time was okay. But for anti-tunneling purposes, it needs to be 5 seconds.
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As people improve the game shifts, its just natural. Before we had maps with dead areas we had maps STACKED with pallets, literally loaded to the brim, there were no tank treads, there were no empty tree loop, there was a pallet in every tile, in fact 2 pallets in every tile jungle gym or not heck even LT walls can have a pallet as a treat. But as people improve it ends up being way too much to work with because at the end of the day killers have to down and hook survivors.
So yeah live your survivor fantasy where all the perks which were rightfully nerfed weren't nerfed and everything is basekit
No window blockers
No bloodlust
Double pallets
No dead zones
Pallet vacuum
Instaheals
Or we could have a video game
Alright pointless counter argument following the same idea of just other things exist so thing bad done
Yeah no thanks on 5s ds maybe like 4s id not like to see the perk do all the work
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"Well, if you didn't tunnel, you would have to take more time downing them in chase since they would be healthy instead of injured. That's nothing compared to the amount of time they could've spent looping you."
Idk you tell me
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You tell me what your point is because I'm not seeing it. I explained my part and how your calculations of time wasted do not equate to that of how much a healthy survivor would have wasted.
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All it does is reduce value that the killer never had to work for, either. Get over it.
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All it does is reduce value that the killer never had to work for, either. Get over it.
EDIT: Server issue caused a double post.
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well yeah what part of worst case senario says its a healthy survivor and they are looping
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5s in a straight line vs 3s in a straight line, at 0.6m/s speed differential thats 20s vs 33s of time just for using the perk, if 20s isn't enough then put in the effort to loop
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It's not about whether the survivor feels like they got value from the perk, though. Considering Decisive Strike's place as an anti-tunnel perk, the question should be this: Does the killer feel like the stun is enough of a punishment to reconsider tunnelling?
Right now, the answer is no. Five seconds is something that many believe would change that.
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