Why isn’t making survivors bleed out on floor bannable?
Seriously, my first match today I had the displeasure of being bled out on the floor because I was one of the last two left. You might ask, what did you do to make him do that? Well… nothing. I had minimal interaction with him as he tunnelled 1 person out immediately and their friend left on hook right after. I did not bm him in any way and in fact I was right next to a hook when he downed me. Oh and also The slinger kept humping me too. Why is this behaviour allowed?
If you just gave temp bans for this behaviour it would stop.
Comments
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It's not classed as holding the game hostage (due to the bleedout timer) so they don't see it as a bannable offense. Too busy making new backpack cosmetics and unnecessary UI changes, that make the game look worse, to implemet a bleedout feature or anything that prevents such toxic behavior.
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It’s crazy to me, that player retention is not a high priority for them. I know how much of a daunting task it would be policing these toxic behaviours(both sides) would be. I’st still best for the overall heath of the game for new and veteran players.
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because that is just the game.
harassment, and other stuff is what would actually get them banned.
this is the equivalent of asking a ban for a t-bag.
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I mean its not such a black and white issue its more of a gray zone that you can't make a definitive ruling on, sometimes you need to slug survivors
for example
survivor gets slugged and crawls away then bleeds out, was it the killers fault the survivor didn't get picked up or was the last survivor and crawled away and couldn't be found
what if the survivor is slugged because there are no hooks they can be carried to without getting a free escape is that the killers fault for securing a kill or the survivors fault for trying to wiggle off instead of just letting the match end
if a killers power is built around slugging is it wrong to use bleedout instead of hooks to secure kills, like the twins
they give killers benefit of the doubt because making it be loose rules on slugging will just lead to confusion at best giving survivors an option to bleed out on the ground after ~2mins on the ground total could make instances where its used maliciously shorter but its not ever going to be a rule / bannable offense
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A t-bag is the same as forcing a survivor to stay in a lost match for 4 minutes? Survivors have that power by pushing their crouch button?
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This discussion very explicitly talks about being bled out for four minutes, and not slugging as a strategy. A teabag is nothing compared to being bled out for four minutes and isn't even comparable. You could compare it to the humping part for sure in some way, but not that.
If there are no hooks nearby, just close hatch then let them wiggle free. I mean they won't be able to escape, right? Issue solved.
Twins is getting reworked because BHVR is steering away from the slugging playstyle so no killers should have their powers revolve around it anymore.
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Something something "all playstyles are valid," something something "slugging is a strategy to win."
It's allowed in theory because the devs have dug themselves into a hole with the above sentiments, despite them going out of their way to dissuade certain playstyles like camping and tunneling (to no effect unfortunately). Also, killer has become the biggest ego-fueled role in any game that I have ever played, since essentially to "win," you have to be the one that beat the other four, meaning you were better than four other people combined (power imbalance favoring killer notwithstanding). When this happens, people showboat to boost their ego, hence why a lot of killers bleed the last "losers" out of the game. Could you imagine the amount of whining killer mains would produce if they couldn't show how "amazing" they are by bm-ing like that? I'm sure the amount of posts made about the topic would be rivaled only by the time Wesker got disabled, and the devs would have to respond accordingly if they wanted to keep that part of the killer playerbase.
People slug to slow the game down, sure I can understand that, but bleeding out for 4 minutes has to be the biggest waste of everyone's time. The symptom of why killers bleed out would be fixed if you could "give up" after a minute or two of bleeding out. Ultimately, I agree with you that slugging in this way should lead to temp bans if done enough.
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Because if it was, then any time any killer slugged any survivor for any reason ever would become a gray area of game reports that would cause thousands of more problems.
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Played 2 matches so far and both matches people were bleed out on floor it's so cringe just get it over with and go next game.
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you cannot separate the two. because it's just "he said she said". the devs can't know which is which, so they can't ban anyone for these. otherwise everyone would have to be banned.
so let them bleed out on the ground for awhile, go look for hatch, close hatch, adrenaline doesn't exist, go find them because they moved, pick them up, they wiggle maybe, another chase, down them again, hook.
seems much simpler to just wait the timer, or the survivor just let the killer hook them. issue solved.
oni isn't.
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Why isn't predropping bannable?
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The game will end. You're not being taken hostage. Therefore, not bannable. They COULD give survivors a "die" option when slugged, but in order to do that, they'd have to change hatch so it didn't immediately spawn when that happened.
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It's very easy to figure out how long a survivor has been slugged for. If the game for some reason cannot do that, recordings always exist.
What would Adrenaline do when hatch is closed? If you can't find a injured survivor by just patrolling two gates, that's all on you. It is simpler to wait it out indeed. When you close hatch, the endgame timer begins and, if you struggle to hook a survivor in that time frame, it still costs less time than waiting for them to bleed out (two minutes vs four). It's simpler, as mentioned, but a time waste for both sides and mind-numbingly boring.
Oni is a snowball killer. As long as the team know what they are doing, slugging doesn't help.
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It's a strategy, like tunneling. Both are tedious but still considered that.
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time is the only thing you are judging here?
trigger? prolonging the game? gate spawns can be bad and the killer might not be able to patrol them. but I guess you don't care...
oni slugs. always has.
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Slugging is the next big problem they should solve. Survivors should be able to pick themselves up after so long if they are slugged and without the use of a perk or help from a player. Killers do this to be toxic. They ignore their objective to make sure your survivor experience is terrible. This only stops when they put effective deterrents in the game.
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No it should NOT be a ban worth offense.
Katemain - made the exact same post earlier.
I really don’t know what to tell you, bring perks that help you not get slugged, there’s quite a few of them, and you can bring perks to help you not get downed.
It’s part of the game, and it should not be something that is a bannable. It’s like saying survivor should be banned for teabagging, body blocking, etc.
It’s literally part of the game 🤷🏼♂️ just move on to the next game.
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Yes I'm judging by time because what else do I judge it with? Entertainment wise waiting for someone to bleed out rather than engaging in a chase seems illogical.
Yeah it would trigger. It wouldn't prolong the game as much as the four minutes since endgame collapse is two minutes. Gate spawns being bad doesn't excuse bleeding out a survivor because you're that desperate for a 4k.
Oni slugs because he's a snowball killer. Solo queue pubstomper most of the time.
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The fact that you keep preaching that killers do this to be toxic is incorrect. Most killers do this to save time.
The killers objective is to kill you, their only objective is not generators or hooking. the main objective for killers is to make sure you’re dead in anyway possible.
slugging is part of that, survivors don’t need another free base kit perk to furthermore to help them. I explained this in detail on your post.
Just because you get slugged and it hurts your feelings doesn’t mean it’s considered toxic. 🤷🏼♂️
Find ways to improve at the game, get better at looping, adjust your loadout, slot a perk that helps with getting slugged.
Welcome to deadbydaylight. :)
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Bleeding someone out for four minutes is not the same as what you listed lol. Sure, it shouldn't be bannable, but why compare such different things? Just takes away from your point.
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My point was simple if you don’t want to get slugged, then bring a load out that helps you from getting slugged… in most cases, you were not sitting there for an entire four minutes on the ground, there are gaps in between where the survivor is able to get up with the help of another survivor.
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Just to clarify, it's BHVR that forces the player to be held hostage for 4 minutes. They could simply have the game end if all 4 survivors are downed and none of them have perks that'll get them back up. However, they have distinctly decided against doing this.
Post edited by RpTheHotrod on3 -
The answers have already been given, so I won't flog a dead horse.
I just wanted to make it known that, despite BHVR stating this is not bamnable, this is still an option to report on the tickets. This just adds a lot of confusion.
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Fair enough.
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Because survivors would abuse the system for fun. It doesn't happen often, but the survivors can, and have, build around not letting the killer hook. The solution is to simply slug everyone and not hook, even when you have all 4
Banning for slugging will just push killers out, especially after the most recent killer nerf on gen kicking
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Bc sometimes a survivor bleeding out is not the fault of the killer. Can't tell you how many times I've slugged a survivor to chase another survivor I saw nearby only to be unable to find the survivor I slugged bc they crawled to some corner to prolong the match.
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and time is a bad judge. tells nothing about the situation and motivations.
the game would end if the survivor wasn't that desperate to not go on hook. just let the killer take you and end the game. but gotta crawl to a deadzone, struggle...
and then complain when people just leave them on the ground.
but I guess it's ok because only the killer gets any blame apparently...
glad we agree.
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Poor killer mains :(
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It's considered a legitimate way to play, so they'll never ban it. Played against a Hag with a slugging build yesterday, who set up a web of traps around 3 gens. Surrounding resources were gone fast. She didn't hook a single person. Everyone just kept getting downed and picked up. I eventually didn't bother to recover and didn't let my team mates pick me up. Just wanted out lol funny thing was I'd literally just taken Boon: Exponential out of my build because I felt I wasn't getting use out of it
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Teabagging neither wastes the Killers time nor does it impact their gameplay at all. Those are not really compareable.
Not saying that slugging until Bleedout should be a bannable offense, since it is not holding the game hostage, it is a dickmove, but not bannable.
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I think the comparison here is mostly because they are both considered toxic and frowned upon.
Comparable or not, both shouldn't be bannable. But they should be avoided.
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They are saying killers intentionally bleeding out survivors for 4 minutes to be toxic. They’re not talking about some random situation that can also lead to a 4 minute bleed out.
the devs should just give a suicide option after 1 minute to put it in line with hook suicides.
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Yeah, of course, both should not be bannable.
But IMO Killer Toxicity has more impact on gameplay than Survivor toxicity. A Survivor cannot really be toxic and deny the Killer points, make it unable for them to play or waste their time without any other option.
But Killer Toxicity can exactly do this.
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Yeah, they are different types of toxicity. One makes your game infuriating, the other prevents you from playing.
They are both bad, of course. But sadly, some players just don't want others to have fun.
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The point is a system banning killers for bleeding out survivors isn't going to be able to differentiate this
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So survivors standing by the exit and teabagging until either the killer or the game forces them out instead of just leaving once they're all safe isn't wasting the killer's time? How about when they do it split up at two exit gates, so the killer has to spend even more time forcing them out? Killer could have already been loading into another game with all they wasted.
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See my other post:
" or waste their time without any other option."
You can always force the Survivors out. It is your decision if you want to waste your own time because you are annoyed by crouch-spamming or if you just force the Survivors out.
And even IF you just wait, it is still only half the time AND you can probably still make BPs while waiting (Killer Powers, breaking Pallets/Walls...).
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I feel like a better question is why isn't there an option to bleed yourself out when you have been slugged for a long time, or when there are only 2 people left and you are slugged, or when all 4 people are slugged and nobody has a way to get up, etc.
I think 4 man bleedouts are more of an issue for BHVR to fix in all honesty, it sucks that people do it but as long as the game doesn't give people a way out then it is going to keep happening unfortunately.
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Ah but like all complaints about bleeding out you both ask and answer your own question throughout the thread.
Bleeding out isn't holding you hostage and is not ban-able simply because there is a timer.
The bleed out timer is the solution to the very problem you are complaining about, you won't just lie there till you are forced to DC you'll eventually bleed out.
Is 4 mins too long? That's a different topic. I think 4 mins is ok because much shorter and you could bleed out during the game if slugged multiple times.
Its a balancing act between having enough time to not just die due to slugging while still having a mechanic that prevents being left on the ground indefinitely.
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bleed out death is intended win-condition for killer. it is just not very viable currently because it takes too long.
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Player retention is a less critical factor than getting new players when just buying the game and the characters costs $100s. They profit far more off hooking someone new than tempting you into a crappy outfit every now and then.
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sure, ban killers for slugging, why not, it would fit with the last couple years of BHVR’s design philosophy
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I typically slug and bleed out unhookable survivors. Survivors who run into an area where there are no hooks since they were used up. Or survivors who have perks (Boil Over, FlipFlop, Power Struggle) that would disable me to hook a survivor under normal circumstances depending where they get downed by the map. Or surviors who purposively fall in the most open area so their Background Player buddy can repeatedly flashlight save (with those I try to pick up once or twice, but a third time I bleed out)
So slugging and bleeding is a needed mechanic for the killer, if its used in a non bm way. Imagine getting banned for bleeding out and yet that was your only solution to some problems vs survivors
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If there’s proof of someone doing this intentionally to be an ass then it should totally be bannable
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You were 1 of 2 survivors left. Did he slug you to look for the other? Because if you want to kill everyone and not lose to a Rng hatch some will do that to avoid hatch from spawning
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When are they gonna solve SWF getting 87 perks for free? Also killers don't do this to be toxic. I bet $20 you are running boil over and your teammates have flashlights, and then you wonder why you get slugged.
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It's not a bannable offense so killers who slug till bleed out won't get banned. There is also the issue that sometimes, the killer kind of has to slug until bleed out.
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But it's not a win condition. A killer doesn't get any points for doing it and it doesn't count as a sacrifice/kill on the end game tally screens.
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yes it does. it is counted as mori. It not rewarding killer for bloodpoint does not matter. I mean there should be scoring event for it. I suppose it is over-sight. As for emblem system... i mean emblem system punishes killer for like... survivors healing and I wholeheartedly believed the system was made for sole purpose of attempting to appease killer into playing a certain way and punish the survivor for gen-rushing/playing efficiently which similar to killer playing a certain way.
there is nothing wrong bleed out but the current iteration is often considered "toxic" play by the killer because it takes too long to die.
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The devs would also have to add in something to discourage or outright prevent survivors from doing as a knee jerk reaction out of spite. You'd have to adjust a lot of the fundamental scoring and gameplay to accommodate a proper surrender feature on both sides. Personally I think that is why we don't have one and that because the player base as a whole has a strong tendency towards quitting unconditionally as a way to "punish" whatever they don't like in a match. The amount of work that goes into making a feature only to have to make even more stuff to basically prevent people from abusing it to the detriment of the game isn't worth the headache.
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