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BVHR Messing Up Balancing On PURPOSE?
I've had this thought recently that might sound VERY far-fetched and 100% could be wrong, but it's a thought I had nonetheless. Is there a possibility that BVHR is purposely messing up balancing in Dead By Daylight?
You might say "thats the worst thing I've ever heard. The devs make changes but they don't always appeal to everyone" which is fair but let's think about this. There's so many voices in the DBD community that there's no way there isn't certain key issues everyone on either Survivor Or Killer side that they've discussed that both can mutally agreed should be balanced. But either A: ignore the outcry B: Take forever to make changes which either A: Are bad chabges or B: Are good changes.
BHVR has made some good changes in the past. Multiple times. They can't be miracles either because theres no way BHVR just randomly try to fix issues for no reason and hope it works. Which means theyre aware of what theyre doing for Balancing and possibly is purposely skewing Balancing to be bad or...eh, majority of the time.
You might ask "Why is this the case?" Well, if you see ANYTHING DBD related, what's keeping them in relevancy is alot of chatter around the community. Critiques, video discussions on Balancing all bring people in to discuss DBD. This also causes a bi-prodict of toxicity videos due to unbalanced issues in the game, adding more discussion, thus adding more press and relevancy to DBD.
Imagine if DBD focused HEAVILY on Balancing for a few months and fix MAJORITY of the game's fundemental issues. Tunneling, unblanced perks, buffing weaker killers, map revamps that actually balance the maps, etc, it would be an amazing patch. For the next few months, everyone will be in awe and talk about it. Of course there will be outliers.
But what happens then? Majority of the issues are fixed. Besides new chapters and mid-chapters, theres nothing really to discuss about in DBD so heavily. That leads to less takk which leads to less press. Sure, the players are happy, but it doesn't bring DBD press. In order for DBD to remain relevant, they will have to either A: mess up something in the game to have people discuss again (whichbis what they might be doing) or B: add more gameplay elements to the game.
With B: That would mean BVHR can't release a chapter every 3 months with a killer with a recycled power and/or a copy-paste survivor. They will have to add new things to the game such as new Survivor items, more interactive elements in maps, new killer mechanics. The last one they made was the End Game collapse which was YEARS ago. They can't/won't make new gameplay elements because they take too long to make/don't rake in enough money to justify it's investment.
Easiest thing BVHR can do is rebalance the game into a mixed state. Keep bad things in the game to bring discussion but do some good things to keep players faith so they don't fully leave. It cost less money while bring maximum relevancy/profit.
Thoughts?
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I'd believe that if they were adding good perks with chapters. But let's be real. Non of new perks are that good and only new good perk we got nerfed to ground (MfT).
BHVR just don't know what they are doing. Like they have some good ideas but they are doing it with terrible numbers. And instead of some tweaks, we are getting terrible nerfs.
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there is basically no chance of that.
if the game works well the player retention is better. good player retention is better for business.
they already get enough press when they release the big licensed chapters.
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The problem here is your root observations, rather than the explanation for them.
Getting the game more press and relevancy by keeping unbalanced things in the game for them to talk about would make sense as an active decision IF your observations about the current state of the game were correct... but I see no evidence for them being correct, so the conspiratorial thought doesn't really graduate beyond baseless conspiracy theory.
Things like "recycled killer powers" and "copy paste survivors" are great examples of root observations that just aren't true. They haven't been doing that - you're falling for the popular narrative that all new killers are lazy recycled elements and all new survivor perks are worthless trash. It's the same with the core idea that the game is currently actually all that unbalanced, when it's actually the closest to fully balanced it's ever been.
A lot of people have a tendency to either overblow the few bad decisions BHVR actually makes, or act like perfectly reasonable (or at least neutral and unproblematic) changes are themselves bad. In extreme cases, it's both. Rather than trying to come up with justifications for why those things might be true, it's better to examine the claims themselves to see if they hold water. Most of the time, they don't.
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They make a lot of good changes but also some really bad ones. Sadako is an example of that. She was pretty decent on the PTB, then they broke her, now they try to fix the issue again. It kind of feels like they are so overly cautious on some things (Alan Wake's perks, Sadako and anti 3 gen mechanic) but more than happy taking a few risks on other things (Hillbilly and Grim Embrace).
There seems to be no consistency. Illumination could be a decent perk, if it wasn't locked behind a dlc (new survivors could definitely use it) but as it is it's sadly quite underwhelming because the players that would actually use it, don't have it and the ones that have it, don't need it. Champion of Light is a bit harder to get right. It's not bad but also not good. Just one of these perks that's not reliable enough to be used more often. Maybe it could add 20% extra battery to flashlights, to make it a bit more consistent.
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I see the reasoning, but it wouldn't make good business sense to deliberately sink the biggest cash cow they have going.
There are some unusual decisions made, perhaps based off data we have no access to, but then they can take longer to resolve clearer issues. I just wish they were quicker to respond. It's understandable they want to avoid kneejerk reactions, but issues often go on for longer than really needed.
If DBD was a smaller game and they wanted to pump more resources into a more successful game, I could see them moving people across and therefore make the game more problematic, to eventually move everyone across, but it's a little risky to the brand.
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There's no big conspiracy.
Lack of competition = no incentive for higher ups to pressure developers to do meaningful balancing = a bunch of nonsensical changes and bare minimum adjustments for PR metrics.
I'm sure some of the gameplay devs care(?), but their hands are probably tied.
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I think it’s exactly this. bHVR has gotten big enough now to the point where I can almost guarantee that a lot of decisions are taken out of the hands of the people that understand the game the most. They’re probably just given a checklist of things to do at the start of every week, and suggestions more than likely have to move a couple rings up the ladder before they’re implemented.
I don’t think there’s a big conspiracy here. Like people above stated, it’s easier and more cost efficient for businesses to retain their customer base, not reach out to new ones, and the best way to retain your playerbase is a positive user experience. There’s no way they’re intentionally making what they would view as bad decisions.
At the end of the day, everyone here are humans, and we’re all flawed and make mistakes. This game going on 8 years strong is proof enough that they care about the game and want to see it succeed, they’ve made a lot of positive changes in the past year.
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I've had this thought recently that might sound VERY far-fetched and 100% could be wrong, but it's a thought I had nonetheless. Is there a possibility that BVHR is purposely messing up balancing in Dead By Daylight?
I am pretty sure they do it on purpose. Creating or buffing strong perks like Made for this or Grim Embrace which are CLEARLY overpowered only surve the purpose to shake up the meta, give people stuff to complain and simple keep the game relevant.
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While I agree that they release certain perks and changes to shake up the meta, I don’t think this is at all to “give people stuff to complain” about. There’s been people on the forums for years that were begging them to shake the meta up and when they finally do it, it’s seen as a conspiracy? They’re simply trying to keep the game fresh, not spark controversy.
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If people complain, they care. When they stop complaining, the game is most likely in a very bad spot. People are not made for happyness. They need the chaos, errors and faults. It is all psychological, and the trick is to not overdo it. BHVR is always on the edge of this, and since the game is still breaving, they have not oversteped this thin line.
On top of this all, as the OP said, when they complain, they spread those complains around the world. Youtube for example is a strong medium, and complaining about stuff in DBD is one of the most frequent things people do.
Or imagine every perk would be perfectly ballanced. There is no room to discuss or ask for buffs ect.
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BHVR did some really good things for new players especially. Reducing prices for old characters was one of the best things ever they did.
Now new player can get Kate, Feng for pretty decent perks. And they also can get Clown, Plague, Hag for some best killer perks. But problem with Alan Wake, his perks are not good for even new players.
Like let's say you are new player. You will have Dejavu which will show you 3 generators all time and generator speed as well. Why would you need Illumination. It's not even best option for new players and like you said, new players most likely won't buy him. And he is not giving any good perk to veteran players as well. But they could buff them to make them viable. Ofcourse non of them is meta changer but having options is always good.
They are doing some fine changes. Nerfing Blight was needed. Billy changes are amazing, that's first time i am enjoying after years. But then why would you nerf Sadako into ground. Sadly upcoming patch tweaks won't make her decent either. But at least she got so buffs. Her counter is still so easy and she still has no chase power or stealth. I hope they keep buff her and don't make us wait 4 years for buffs like Billy case.
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If you have to start your thought with “this probably isn’t true” then it probably isn’t true.
No BHVR are unlikely to be intentionally screwing up their game in order to drum up conversation about it.
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The devs aren't intentionally messing up anything.
The community is very divided on what they actually want the game to be and anytime the devs do make changes based on community feedback, there's just a new set up complaints.
For example, before the anti-facecamping changes you would see many posts complaining about facecamping and how uninteractive it was. So the devs add the new system to deal with that specfic complaint and now people are focusing on proxy camping which has always been fine according to the devs.
Ultimately you just can't please a group of players who don't even have a strong grasp on what they want the game to be like.
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pretty sure they used to do it, to keep the meta fresh but i dont think they do it anymore.
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Exactly, they are trying their best to keep the game fresh and enjoyable, and OP just like you stated, they can't make everyone happy. This is an asymmetrical game, both sides have very different issues and mentalities, this is truly a case of not being able to please everyone. Anytime they make a positive, quality of life change to one side, the other is usually feeling left out and think that the devs favor one role over the other, when in reality they are simply trying to please their playerbase. Not everything in life has some hidden conspiracy under it.
While yes, it's true that some people thrive under chaos, don't go making the assumption that everyone is like this. A lot of people value enjoyment and pleasure, especially with something like a video game, where most people use it for a form of escapism from their daily lives. And yes, discussion videos are a strong medium for this game, but they are more niche and viewed by people who are actively in the community. The videos that get the most views and bring people into the game are gameplay videos of people messing around and having fun with the game, you can't have these if your playerbase and by extension content creators are unhappy with the game, it shows in their work when they're not enjoying themselves.
And there's always room for balance discussions, no game in history has ever been perfectly balanced, this is purely a pipe dream, especially for an asymmetrical game. If there's one thing I've learned in life, there will always be a contrarian, no matter how perfect things are or appear to be. You can never truly make everyone happy.
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The price changes are definitely good but I am still a bit concerned about the tutorials when it comes to new players. They don't really teach you a lot. I would very much like, if there were PvE modes for both sides, that would also give you some BP (maybe only until you have reached a certain level) for new players to practice. There are just so many things in the game that new players aren't told about and the things they are told about can already be quite overwhelming. So flooding them with even more information is likely not going to help.
The good thing about Illumination is, that it helps the entire team. At least in theory. But thinking about it, in solo queue nobody will know you have the perk. So they'll more likely think of it as CoH, Exponential or Shadow Step and only enter the range when needed.
I feel like this perk could be decent. If it was available to the right players and there was a way to spread that information more effectively. Maybe it could also have a side effect to allow you to set up boons 20% faster to give it a bit of an extra edge. I think many perks could have some small side effects to make them better in combination with others. In theory this should help with perk variety as well.
I will hold off on my final judgement for Sadako until after the changes are applied but I think these buffs will definitely improve her. She won't be perfect but it's a step in the right direction.
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No, I don't think there is a big conspiracy happening here.
BHVR is unlikely to sabotage its own product.
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It has nothing to do with conspiracy, it is a tactic to stay relevant. It is clever marketing arguably the best way to keep people playing the game. I would do probably exactly the same if i would be the owner.
If you doubt that, ask yourself the question: Is it even possible that BHVR is that incompetent that they release / buff / nerf how they do? Does anybody really think Made for this was so long untouched because BHVR had the slightest doubt this perk was ballanced or not? Or that they release Zero CD Hillbilly as a fresh example without knowing what they do?
They are 100% aware of their actions. I would be shocked if this was not the case. They would work like blindfolded and without a plan. They are not completly incompetent or stupid.
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Sadako is getting more changes.
They have no idea what theyre doing.
Fogwhispers should be paid employees that advise, and actually be listened to.
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Fog Whispers aren't necessarily better at balance changes than BHVR. Some of them have their own preferences which wouldn't quite make for a better balanced game either.
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Quite the conspiracy theory :) But I really think it's far more simple and less nefarious - they just don't know how to and/or are unwilling to balance the game. I think it's a bit of both. There have been so many times when broken/OP things have been tested, people screamed that they were broken/OP, yet these things got implemented into the game anyway only to be changed later or sometimes not at all. Also, the biggest balance issue in my mind is the advantage that SWF teams on comms have. I don't think BHVR are willing to do anything to change that because if they did, a large portion of their biggest revenue base would play a lot less or leave the game entirely.
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Meanwhile they pretty much do so.
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I don't think they messing up balance for the reasons you say, but rather they don't want to work on the game anymore. They do everything they can to alienate their biggest player base and then ignore them.
People are screaming that survivor is unplayable, the player counts are decreasing and nothing being done. Not sure, but it's obvious what they are doing.
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I'm not sure which game developer it was, but one of them said something along the lines of not being concerned when people voice their critiques, but being concerned when people stop voicing them at all. If they're purposely not addressing balancing issues then they're missing the people who eventually just shut up because they figure they aren't being heard/their concerns don't matter, and they just quietly find something else to play. There's only so far bad publicity can take you.
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1: I definitely think BHVR wants to keep an ever evolving game. They don't want a perfectly balanced game per se, they want perks that go in and out of usage. That fact that DbD has been able to be broken up into eras based on what was meta probably keeps the game fresh.
2: Personally I think asymmetrical games are absolutely impossible to balance on a game by game basis.
3: Given that DbD has different metas in different regions of the world (Self-Care S Tier perk in Asia!) there's no ways to balance for that.
4: Lots of DbD is a guessing game. Ultimate Weapon came out, and this shot up the value of calm spirit. This led to a decrease in the use of Ultimate Weapon. Both sides are trying to guess at what the other has.
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That quote actually appeared during one of those special loading screens we get on certain events and it was met with a lot of disapproval here.
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For some reason I thought it was a quote from someone over at Gun Interactive, but wasn't 100%. Interesting that it got met with disapproval though. I would think apathy would be the worst thing you could get from a playerbase as it means people have stopped caring.
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Perhaps, but it isn't a good look:
"If the player base is yelling at you, then you're doing something right."
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Ah yeah. I suppose it depends on how it's interpreted. I took it to mean knowing the playerbase is still there vs worrying that the playerbase has moved on.
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Solo queue is seriously unbalanced. Behavior should be ashamed.
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Not being able to please everyone is perfectly fine.
In fact its trying to please everyone that usually makes something please no one.
That's why the term "broaden appeal" often equates to the death of things as its a euphemism for rendering something so generically bland that it loses all character and uniqueness.
Making it completely uninteresting to all but the most generic of consumers and they don't tend to stick around long because they are quickly swept up by the next generic bauble they have to consume.
The fact that DBD upsets so many players is one of the strongest points about the game. It means, especially in the horror genre, they are doing something right.
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I believe they may intentionally create an imbalance to adjust the population ratio.
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they are ridiculously irresponsive to complaints regarding game balance so maybe, maybe not i don't really know.
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This is the most Occam’s Razor-esque thing I have read on the forums in a long time
No, the devs are not messing up on purpose for whatever conspiratorial reason you think they are
They’re just bad at balancing the game 🤷♂️
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At least I can only assume that there is no staff to balance the map. Some staff also added an overheating system to the Hillbilly as a "deep" adjustment.
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I wouldn't say they are doing it "on purpose" at first i thought that they had no idea what they are doing. Then they recently have made some great changes, like billy, but then in the same patch they nerf sadako because of "tunneling" and the nerf literally re-promotes the style of gameplay they were trying to avoid.
In the same patch they "fix 3 genning" but in the most convoluted way, when there were far simpler and easier ways to do it.
In the same patch, they buffed up base kick regression, but they allowed survivors to "gen tap" and have wiretap on forever, even after we told them this.
In the same patch, they buff ruin, but the wrong part of it.
In the same patch, they nerf STBFL.
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