Why Isnt Killing Yourself on First Hook a Bannable/Reportable Offense?
Title, ever since the beginning this has been one of the worst parts of Solo Q and there hasnt been any hint of the devs doing anything about it. Worst part is it goes around the disconnect penalty, and doesnt even leave the rest of the team with a bot which is without a doubt better than nothing.
Making it reportable would not only deincentivize people from dcing, but also punish repeat offenders. I cant see how this is a bad thing
Now before you all say "but there are certain times where its the correct play!!" and to that I say bodyblocking. It is also a punishable offense, but only if it holds the game hostage. It is VERY clear when it is used strategically and to hold the game hostage. Killing yourself on hook is also VERY obvious when it is done to throw the game.
If its not made to be reportable, then come up with a solution.
Comments
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I wanna say at least one dev has stated there is no way to prove intent behind that (did a person deliberately miss their skill checks or were they just unskilled at hitting them?) which prevents them from “punishing” it. Additionally, there’s no rule that says survivors must remain in a match once hooked. I believe one response Peanits gave to the scenario was that if a person dies early on hook consistently in your games, it may be worth considering a playstyle and perk setup that focuses on your individual path to escape (paraphrasing).
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OP says about suiciding at "first hook". You don't need to press skill check on first hook.
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You do if you go into second stage.
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Nice work! You let everyone know your input is minimal and forgettable.
To OP, yes this is an issue, much like tunneling and a killer complaint or two. BHVR's view on this is they don't care, it's just going to be part of the game, deal. So find a new game, or keep queuing up.
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Ok but I think the post is specially talking trying 4% things than that things
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I inadvertently addressed that though. The devs dunno if that survivor was actually trying to escape the hook. They can’t read minds to know intent. And the 4% chance remains because it gives survivors a small incentive to keep playing. If you’re stuck on hook until someone else maybe saves you or the timer runs out and you die, you’ll eventually lose interest in playing the game. It’s just like being slugged.
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They could just take out the skill checks…and buttons prompts to “attempt”
i wouldn’t be fussed about it, probably give me time to eat some nuggies or something, have a stretch, ponder my actions. Literally just chill. The action button sequence isn’t all that interesting in my opinion, more of another mindless task, that I wouldn’t mind if it goes, and they just leave the timer.
The only way you should be able to self unhook is if you have deliverance imo.
They’d have to change like what? One perk being slippery meat, I doubt people would mourn it.
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You trying to tell me having some one killing themselves 2 minutes into the match and another killing themselves when theres 2 people left is "hard to work out intent"?
The odd report on some one who's innocent isnt going to get some one banned. We already see this with cheating accusations, even during the cheater epidemic. How ever the actual offenders? Theyre the ones who get punished.
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I mean what you are really expecting if you keep those players in game?
They will run to killer and die anyway. Or they will play hide and seek for hatch and leave all team to die.
You can't really expect from them to progress game if they don't wanna part of it.
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I dunno what you are talking about. I tried very hard to escape from the hook, especially after I saw 2 crouch hiders and 1 person in chase.
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A fix for self-killing on hook:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/405044/remove-killing-self-on-hook
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While that is true I think it's fair to mention that it would at least stop hook suicides on impuls. We all know that feeling when something happens that frustrates us and we're like: "I'm done with this stupid game!" But then a second later you calm down and play like normal.
So it might improve the situation at least slightly.
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Maybe.
But i still don't think this will improve the game. If someone is not playing and progressing the game, it's just game over for rest of team. So for me, finishing game as fast as possible is better, so we all can move on to next match.
Also killers like SM exists which hated most of people.
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No Im not?? Im saying theres a difference between some one giving up right at the start and at the very end to benefit their teammate.
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how would you even enforce that? If making it a banable offense was in the card, why allow it at all?
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Close to 10k hours in league and people get super tilted/rage/surrender votes in a winnable game. But leaving is a game directly or afking will just get you a two week vacation. I'm saying this because you can't just do nothing in league and even while tilted out of their mind people will still play. They cs/go for objectives and fight.
People like to constantly regurgitate the you can't make people play but when players don't have the option to just give up they tend to contribute, so I would say you are correct even if it's the dbd playerbase.
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No.
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It seems enough good reasons have been given as to why this shouldn't happen, so I won't parrot.
My solution would be each hook state remains at 1 minute. You can still take 3 attempts to escape on the first hook( 6 with Slippery Meat), but this does not shorten the time. The second stage just remove struggle.
Of course, if someone wants to quit then they will regardless. However, it's far easier to report a Survivor who just runs to the Killer to be killed. It's too easy to put forward escape attempts as genuine, as sometimes they are.
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because this game isn't competitive and people should leave in peace whenever they want. with all the garbage that exist in the game, people shouldn't fear they may have to endure them for longer periods and just decide to log out instead. map offerings make me feel this way currently and for example if they decide to prevent not playing on a map offering i think i won't play this game after i run out of sac wards of which i only have 50 something on my p100 oni.
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I feel like using a 4v4 game and its mechanics doesn’t work here. How do other assym games handle it? I know for sure TCM doesn’t handle the scenario you’ve described like LoL.
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A dev outright stated that if someone has no intention of actually playing the match there's no point keeping them in it.
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And if that person has no intention of playing the match; They should not queue up. They should do everyone else a favor.
Ragequitting, be it via DC or on the hook, ruins the game for everyone else. And it should be removed and/or punished in all forms, to promote healthy gameplay.
I came up with a fix that makes trying to escape the hook the same risk/reward playstyle, does not need to change a single escape perk, and also remove ragequitter's ability to Hook-ragequit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/405044/remove-killing-self-on-hook
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The genre is irrelevant though. All other assyms are basically dead besides dbd anyway.
The sentiment is that people will try to win generally if they can't just exit for free.
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I mean, if they're hiding and not touching gens or totems or chests, then it's not a stretch to believe they're unlikely to help you off hook... it just makes sense to try and save yourself *shrugs*
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In what universe should you be able to report and punish someone for leaving a video game that they paid for to play at their leisure?
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If they can't stay for an entire match; They should not queue up.
'I bought the game' does not give someone carte blanche to ruin for it others by quitting mid-match. And I feel bad for anyone who can't figure this out, or know what good sportsmanship is.
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this isn't a job and no one has an obligation to play, you can just as easily do the same thing and fast forward to the next match
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Because 4 other people also paid to play that game.
Just because you buy a ticket to watch the game doesnt mean you have the right to do whatever you want
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You have an obligation to not ruin the game for other players, be it via cheats, exploits, treating other players badly, or ragequitting.
There's a reason most EULAs and ToS's have sections that say you can be banned for being toxic. And if you can't understand how ruining the match for others is bad, then you need to learn empathy.
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Most other multiplayer games do though.
AFKing, throwing, and rage quitting are even listed under the report section for this game.
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0 people ever have been banned for killing themselves on hook because 50% of survivor mains would be gone if that were to happen
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
I never said anyone had been banned for it.
You said leaving a game shouldn’t be punishable, I said that others games already do this and DBD lists it as something that is reportable, they just don’t take action for it.
I’m not even saying they should be banned necessarily, but they should discourage it in some way.
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I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and just say the only times I've been tempted to let go (or on the rare occasion have actually let go) it's because of my team mates. People can argue "you're ruining the experience of 4 other people" but when my experience is being ruined by these same people, I should be free to choose not to play with them. A killer can see 4 flashlights in lobby and opt to dodge because they anticipate these people may be out to make sure they have a miserable experience. I get no such tell from my team mates in the lobby.
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your personal attacks are a lot more embarrassing for you than me
and I don't really need to defend my position because BHVR understands it perfectly. you can't force people to keep playing a game they don't want to play, they will just switch games if the game is too hard on them.
Post edited by BoxGhost on3 -
Every single player in this game, including you, has hovered over the leave game button and pressed it. As well as killed them selves on hook. People that stream and play this game for a career do it. So us normies definitely do it.
In terms of "I want to ruin the game for others without punishment",
look no further than your forum username.
Post edited by BoxGhost on2 -
It's not bannable because its a game mechanic. You can't put something in the game, allow players to do it, then whip around and ban them for it.
I'd say just remove the ability of the first person hooked to even attempt an escape. BHVR and others say these people would just rush the killer when removed. While that would happen sometimes, I generally disagree, and think most would either play the game, or DC allowing a bot to at least play the game.
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But unlike dying on hook, disconnecting does have a punishment.
If it's that common that everyone does it, then shouldn't there be something done to address it?
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You would have to completely remove the mechanic as the first option, removing 4% or Deliverance etc.
Banning people for things like this is not how you treat your players and it just results in people that are not in queues and who will simply shut down the game and play something else
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Sure yea, right after they address tunneling and camping why not.
How about addressing teammates not doing objectives and standing around? Should we just address that?
These are things that are hard to "address" as it really just doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things. If you cant give up on hook than people will just stand around afk? Spam a locker until the killer comes kills them?
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I'm not sure why you are bringing up camping and tunnelling. I agree they should be addressed, probably the number 1 thing that should be addressed right now.
You are completely right that you can't fully remove it and people will always find a way around it, but you can still reduce it so it isn't as problematic as it is now. It's way too common right now because of how easy it is.
Most other multiplayer games punish people for going AFK or throwing. I don't see why DBD has to be different.
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To find out the answer to why im bringing up camping and tunneling is the reason you are bringing up giving up on hook.
Short of forcing peoples fingers onto their keyboards what will happen is just someone walking around not doing anything. Maybe vault here or there, how do you report something like that? You can't. People already circumvent waiting on the hook, theyll spam lockers or vaults cause they just want next or out.
So what do we do then?
Everyone that is not on a generator within X seconds can be reported for throwing?
Its just not gonna happen.
Post edited by ChuckingWong on3 -
No one has an obligation to play but there should be punishment for repeated game ruining activity. Your free to leave but you should have to eat your very minuscule penalty at the very least.
You can never force people to play but you can always discourage them from leaving, for the longevity and healthiness of your player base. If you disagree with that I can only be sorry that you don't know any better. It's dbd I realize the average persons game experience is extremely low.
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The first thing a brand new player does when playing survivor is try to unhook themselves. Banning new players is not a good thing.
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Imo self unhooks shouldn't be possible until there are perks in play for that or/and there's no one available to unhook you (everyone else is dead/slugged or last standing person is in chase)
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How to address people giving up on hook? Chill out!
They ruin your games? So what? We Survivors lose matches all the time for all kinds of reasons, including teammates throwing. But the match is over in a few minutes, so move on. Better luck next time.
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The responses I see from them are so contradicting.
One told me before that it was a problem to say that my niece didn't want to stay in a match against Plague, because she threw up, so she left via hook unaliving method.
They told me that's promoting unsportsmanship behavior and it's in the wrong.
I'd love to know what the actual stance on this is. I don't really care what it is, I'd just like to know to avoid problems.
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It starts getting old when you have to "chill out" several games a day
I got on to play the game, not to look at a lobby and loading screen 75% of the time
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I know not everyone agrees on this topic but as a survivor main there are times I intentionally die on the first hook, or at least try. Was in a match just a little bit ago where I was the first survivor chased. I gave the killer a decent run. During that time none of the other 3 survivors touched a gen, a totem, or anything. One of the others actually ran around behind the killer while he was chasing me. When the killer finally took me down that survivor ran away.
You better believe in that situation I am going to very intentionally try to die on the first hook, and it's the exact reason I wouldn't want to see there be any sort of punitive action for it. There are far too many matches where I get paired with survivors that simply aren't playing to actually escape. That's their choice, but I'm glad I have the choice to intentionally die on the first hook and move on to the next match where hopefully I'll find myself paired with people that are at least trying to escape.
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The devs know it happens a lot, and they know it completely ruins the game for everyone else, but for some people they refuse to either make any changes to stop it from happening, or to just take a harsher stance against it. Weird.
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If it were reportable, that'd be like one of those old Counter-Strike servers that enable friendly fire, but then punish people whenever there's a friendly fire incident.
"Kobes" should just be retired at this point; It isn't like there's a fair opposing 4% chance for survivors to trip on nothing and be screwed.
Post edited by EQWashu on0
