Killer buffs?!

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menacing_goose
menacing_goose Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 111

With the current meta and state of the game I’m genuinely confused as to why killers are currently getting buffs as if they need them (especially blight already one of the strongest and most played killers -_-) with the current state of the game survivor is just unbearable to play especially solo queue but that doesn’t matter since updates are made without taking into consideration that solo queue players exist anyway, the current meta is annoying it’s just pop pain res from embrace dead mans literally every match don’t even have to wonder what a killers build is since they’ll all consist of at least 2 of the 4 perks I just mentioned now if not all 4. Things implemented into the game to help survivors have been horrible (anti camp and 3 gen system 😃) almost every game someone gets tunneled out by a killer running the strongest regression perks and nothing but regression at 5 gens and why is pig receiving buff/nerf I could see why a buff would be needed but a nerf on one of the already weakest killer seems unnecessary

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  • menacing_goose
    menacing_goose Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 111
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    Not saying any side should be ignored and if that’s the case why not go for the weaker killers that no one wants to play because they’re weak 😃

  • JeanGreyarea
    JeanGreyarea Member Posts: 480
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    While the hud has helped, matchmaking honestly has gotten worse in my games. Not to mention tunneling is just way too strong especially with ds being garbage

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    But that is not something that has to do with solo survivor. Hell, killers even can´t change, like they used to be able before sbmmr.

    A different, non ranked game mode might be in place.

  • rvzrvzrvz
    rvzrvzrvz Member Posts: 939
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    I like doctor buffs but that's it, everything else will be trash in pub games especially huntress buff is wild, not only hatchet count but move speed .. ?

    Buffing blight/huntress ok sure why not but skull m deserved some nerfs imo, her 70% killrate was supposed to go down but it's not, too much haste effect and map control. Weird changes overall, as usual most of it doesn't make any sense

  • rvzrvzrvz
    rvzrvzrvz Member Posts: 939
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    honestly ? nurse is kinda hard to play I don't mind losing to skilled player, me I tried hard and I'm still very mid at nurse so I can respect skilled ones, losing to SM isn't interesting most ppl just dc nowadays, it's quicker

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,135
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    Ugh. So you think we should balance around average level players then?


    Alright well, where are my MASSIVE, and i mean MASSIVE, nurse buffs. Because they nerf her like every 6 months, but her kill rate still is one of the lowest in the game. They should bring back omega blink nurse then, that ought to bring her kill rate more in line with some of the strongest killers in the game, like pig...

  • menacing_goose
    menacing_goose Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 111
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    Survivor is not in a good spot but ok go off not gonna explain something or argue about something that has been mentioned multiple times by multiple people as an issue which is the current killer meta

  • KatsuhxP
    KatsuhxP Member Posts: 321
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    @Reinami

    Yeah idk if it was nessasary to take the ability to see the boxes, I think that's one thing too much. But besides that they at least try to not overbuff her, yes.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    If it has been mentioned multiple times, then just quote? I mean, you openend a thread about it. You must have some examples... right?

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,259
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    Both sides need that QoL, and most of the killers being changed REALLY needed it. Huntress is debatable though.

    I still hope BHVR helps SoloQ out more down the line, now that killers are getting what they need.

  • HeroLives
    HeroLives Member Posts: 1,985
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    If they bring omega blink nurse back, I’m just going to turn in my survivor hat for the foreseeable future, and possibly uninstall.

  • tjt85
    tjt85 Member Posts: 700
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    I want to apologise wholeheartedly for getting The Huntress buffed. I swear they've come up with these buffs just for me and all the other Huntress players who miss 90% of their hatchet shots. Ditto with the Clown on those rare occasions I might play him for a daily.

    For the record, I don't think these Killers need the buffs they're getting just because players like me are god awful with them.

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 4,936
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    Very level-headed and measured assessment. I am not sure if that is allowed in this forum, as its neither killer nor survivor biased, but I guess we will let it fly for the time being.

  • Chiky
    Chiky Member Posts: 636
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    to me, that was a nerf for pig... as if her traps werent already way too easy to get rid of...

  • Nebula
    Nebula Member Posts: 1,394
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    Objectively speaking, I’d say that survivor was for sure in a better spot (including solo queue) in 2020. Now don’t confuse this as me saying it was healthier, killer was in a way worse position than compared to now and it’s way better balance wise for both sides now then it was then, a necessary change.

    But as to your question, the things that were better for survivor in 2020 would be a mix of things that have been changed over the years, mostly map layouts/spawns, and overpowered perks. Map layouts used to give you chain after chain of tiles, the vast majority of them being safe. This was also during a time where anti-loop killers were not very prevalent being that Pyramid Head (you could very well argue Demo) kind of started that trend, he was released halfway through 2020. Correct me if I’m wrong too but I believe there were still certain infinites in the game at this time as well (I’m thinking about Groaning Storehouse). Most killers followed your standard M1 gameplay and add that onto the broken maps that favored survivor, that’s already a big enough advantage to say survivor was in a better spot than it is currently (maps are still a big issue but objectively more fair than they were layout wise). Gens took 50 seconds less in total to complete. Killer regression relied almost entirely on one perk (Ruin) that was in the utter hands of RNJesus that your totem didn’t spawn directly in front of survivors (this was also before they revamped totem locations).

    Perks like Dead Hard for distance, Balanced Landing not giving you a stagger even when exhausted making certain loops close to infinites, 5 second stun DS paired with unbreakable (the infamous small pp build), made it so tunneling (which also wasn’t quite as prevalent as it is now, not to say it still didn’t happen) was not nearly as viable as it is currently. Items like medkits could give you personally multiple heals throughout the game. Toolboxes and BNPs were much much stronger and could guarantee a gen done by yourself in like 35-40 seconds, etc.

    I definitely didn’t touch on everything and am for sure forgetting some absolutely broken things, but I truly think that survivor and by extension solo queue was objectively in a better spot in 2020. And l want to reiterate again that this doesn’t mean it should go back to that in that sense. It wasn’t very enjoyable (at least for me) to play killer back then as you constantly had a stacked hand against you, the games in a much, much better state of balance currently.

    Objectively speaking though, when thinking about statistics, survivor escape rates (don’t even want to guess what they were I’m not sure) were definitely higher than they currently are. I think that’s what most people mean when they say solo queue is in a rough spot, it’s very hard to escape currently compared to how it was in the past.

  • caligraph
    caligraph Member Posts: 359
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    Blights addon pass and the upcoming huntress changes are probably the worst of it imo. Blights addons are still broken and now huntress will be overpowered. Thats all i can really think of for "killer buffs" though, and their killer-specific changes, not across the board. Theres the 5% per kick and removal of gen tapping too but those aren't overbearing. BHVR has been pretty fair as of late and are at least attempting to solve issues with the game without breaking it. I.E. the anti camp, 3 gen system, basekit BT, shifting killer meta perks to be based on hooks and/or separate hooks. All of which do their job decently.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,344
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    Please don't give them ideas. What ever happened with Freddy, he does not deserve another nerf.

    I guess Huntress could have gotten 1 more hatchet (no specific reason, I just like even numbers) and the option for a crosshair but 2 hatchets, faster movement while pulling up a hatchet and the 10% faster wind up are overkill.

    I guess the Blight thing is ok... Although I wouldn't have buffed C33. The addon is still pretty bad, so it doesn't really make him 'm stronger but it makes the addon less useless. I'm not sure about the combination of C33 and Adrenaline Vial Though. This might be a bit too strong.

  • Astel
    Astel Member Posts: 618
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    You don't need to worry I guess. As I know, Adrenaline Vial doesn't increase token when it is used with C33 or Iri Tag

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,344
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    That's good to know. I was unsure because I haven't tested it yet.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    First of all, thank you for this well written answer.

    Yeah, Ruin was quite the meta back then. Which benefited both sides, as killers didn´t feel as "pressured" as now. Since survivors had an objective apart from doing gens. Sadly, currently no one uses hex (or even boon) perks. Because everything totem related is so underwhelming. Its like the devs went overboard with the changes. Totem spots were harder to find, which cause survivors to waste more time doing other things than gens. Now you take a couple of hex perks and hear the thunder sound, before you see the first survivor.

    I´m not sure about the infinites. But chases were different back then. More running in circles. Less shift w like now. Back then BBQ was part of every killers loadout. Which gave killers a new objective after a hook. So camping/tunneling existed, but wasn´t as prevalent as now. Simply, because it wasn´t the optimal play.

    Some perks were really busted back then. The i win button E. Weaponized DS. It sure wasn´t fun for killers that didn´t tunnel. Yet got hit with DS, because survivors repaired in their face. Which probably was one of the reasons why the perks got changed. Maybe a bit to much. Devs probably haven´t reversed so controversial changes, simply because the perks were to strong.

    Escape rates being higher, could also be explained by the lack of survivors suiciding. Like they do now on every occasion. I think it became more prevalent in the last 2 1/2 years. I blame a mix of the sbmmr and the archives for it. Archives give out so ridiculous quests, that require players to play bad on purpose. If they want to complete a challenge fast. Meanwhile the sbmmr, isn´t what was originally promissed. It just takes kills vs escapes into account. A basement bubba with 4 hooks = deaths would be considered more skilled than a huntress that got 9 hooks. But only 1 kill. Equally, a player could run the killer for the whole match and then get face camped at the end. Meanwhile the survivors that just did gens and nothing else, would be considered more skilled. Because they survived.

    Anyway, i think DbD is in a healthier spot for both sides now. Its not perfect. But definetly better now.

  • Nebula
    Nebula Member Posts: 1,394
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    Totally agree with you here on every point. Hexes were over nerfed to the point that they're only truly viable if you bring Pentimento. Playthings definitely not bad and Devour's can still be very scary but with how long the games gone on now, most people know totem locations and if they don't theres always the RNG that it can spawn literally right in front of them or out in the open.

    The amount of times I used to get hit by DS even after I hooked somebody else was wayyyy too much 😅

    I also think that a big reason for survivors suiciding more is due to the DC penalty and a way to get around it, a double edged sword essentially.

    The archive challenges are often times baffling 😂 Essentially most of them read to me as "throw the game for your team or yourself. do this in a single trial."

    And completely agree about the SBMMR system being flawed, it overlooks the most important thing a SBMMR system should look for, skill. You can't have a functioning system if skill is just an arbitrary metric.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,519
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    To be fair while I do agree with you Freddy is going to require a bit more time to deal with. His isn’t a simple snap your finger and done QOL change. He needs a whole new rework.

    Myers will need some addon adjustments and they may have to tweak his base kit perhaps 🤔 if they do adjust addons but he requires careful thought.

    Although I don’t know if huntress needed all though buffs that she got. At least not the 10% faster hatchet buff.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,519
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    That’s fair but regardless all of these killers needed the buffs except for huntress. She didn’t need the 10% windup.

    Behaviour wants there killers at 60% kill rate

  • Adrien
    Adrien Member Posts: 82
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    Killers run the same META perks because if they don't they will struggle to get 3 kills. If they try to be creative with their build, they will struggle even against good solo Q survivors (high gen efficiency + decent skills for looping the killer).

    I strongly disagree with the statement "almost every game someone gets tunneled". We don't play the same game I guess. It is more like one game out of four to be generous. And we have META anti-tunnel perks with decent maps all around.

    Also the anti-facecamp works well against... face camping. I don't see Huntresses, Billies or Bubbas facecamping anymore, even tombstone piece Myers is gone. Proxy camp is here to last and is legitimately part of the game, we have to learn how to play around it.

    For the anti-3 gen mechanic I hope this is a joke when you say it is horrible. We can literally 3 gen ourself with poor macro plays and not get punished by an automatic loss anymore. Killer can get punished for using surge/info gen kicking perks.

    This means we can now gen rush without taking into account the gen spread. Huge W for survivors.

    For Pig people complain about the Head pop nerf, but this feature was so easy to pull off and very hard to counter for survivors. One interruption, and you could guarantee a head pop. That was ridiculous. Instead now we have a killer with a decent chase power. She needs a better slow down however I agree.

    2 searches minimum per survivor for 14 searches total.

    I will play again one of my former main killer because she finally has a viable anti-loop power, not just a band-aid lucky-easy-cheesy head pop feature...

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105
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    Whats so unbearable compared to 2020?

    In solo queue specifically? Nothing. As survivor in general? Everything.

    Since solo queue players are also survivor, they have it by far the hardest.

  • menacing_goose
    menacing_goose Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 111
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    3 gen mechanic will quite literally only be helpful against people who would want to protect a 3 gen from the start of the match otherwise you’ll never see it because the current regression perks that are being used will just carry and have 1-2 people dead before 2 gens pop (surge could make things harder for that I will agree especially seeing as I like to use surge since most the time I’m too lazy to kick a gen myself and as for gen kicking info you’d probably be better off with other info perks anyway such as bbq or discordance)


    Anti camp will and simply always has just been absolutely horrible you will only be able to do anything with that if the killer is someone who wants to look at the pretty face on the hook


    And if current meta is needed while killers are getting their 4ks at 4-5 gens then I don’t know what to say it isn’t even fun completely overwhelming a team to the point where they can’t do anything at that point it’s just a game on easy mode

  • Adrien
    Adrien Member Posts: 82
    edited February 21
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    "the current regression perks that are being used will just carry and have 1-2 people dead before 2 gens pop".

    ===>Well in most of my games as a solo Q survivor, we got 2 gens popped with 1 to 4 hook stages depending on killer skill/survivor skill.

    And then when pain res/grim embrace are gone, gens fly across the map. 2 people dead before 2 gens popped is a very severe loss. Not that common IMO, unless the survivors are underperfoming in chase.

    Anti camp is in fact an anti face camp. This has been designed for this purpose only. It's horrible for people that think it is made against proxy camp.

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    "And if current meta is needed while killers are getting their 4ks at 4-5 gens".

    ===> What are those games ? The average kill rate is around 60%. But when we read those posts it sounds like the average kill rate is around 80% LMAO.

    Seriously when survivors got rekt that hard they must have played poorly. Unless they faced a very strong character and a very sweaty player and they are not prepared for this.

    For those sh*tshows, this is what I witness : 10 seconds chases, grouping, on gens instead of splitting, running accross the map injured, etc. Fortunately we are not all that bad and we have some strong perks to punish tunneling.

    Honestly people dramatize the solo Q so hard.

  • sinkra
    sinkra Member Posts: 287
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    Are you aware that with an addon SM can have permanent undetectable?

  • Withered8
    Withered8 Member Posts: 1,235
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    Improving Killer Base Kits and reducing reliance on / power of addons is a good thing.

    HOWEVER some of these changes are straight up buffs and crazy buffs. Clown having 6 bottles is just ridiculous, same with huntress and her ridiculous plefora of changes. Doctor changes are good however still don't completely remove the reliance on certain addons, just makes the addons better so what's the point?

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,135
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    First of all, that's not actually true, because the duration of the undetectable even with that addon is still less than the cooldown.


    Secondly, you still haven't answered my question. Do you honestly and truly believe that SM is more powerful than Nurse and that is why her kill rate is 70%?

  • sinkra
    sinkra Member Posts: 287
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    At high MMR nurse is probably stronger because it has a high skill cap but that's not what the average survivor experiences.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,135
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    So do we balance around average players, or high mmr players?