The biggest problem with playing survivor
is other survivors. Period. Especially in solo queue.
I know playing survivor is supposed to be a team thing, but anyone that has played this game for very long as a survivor knows that isn't happening unless you go in with a 4 man SWF. The amount of survivors that screw over the rest of the team (either intentionally or through ignorance) is far too high. There is a good chance you are going to be paired with at least one (or more) of these type survivors in every match.
It's the reason, even as a survivor main, I can't ever bring myself to say a particular killer, killer power, or killer perk is OP on these forums. The most OP power every single killer has is stupid, lazy, and selfish survivors. The percentage of matches where I get killed due to the play of other survivors is a significantly larger percentage than the percentage I am killed due to the skill of the killer.
I'm not knocking killers when I say that. I play against some very skilled killers. I'm just saying there are a lot of matches where killers don't need hardly any skill because survivors willingly hand them easy kills with the way they play.
Comments
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This would only be true if killers were on average better players than survivors, which is highly doubtful. The problem is they're balancing the game for coordinated high MMR SWFs on coms and not taking into account low-mid mmr solo q which is where most their playerbase is.
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Reminds me of the Honest Game Trailer for DbD a few years ago.
"...which won't help you with your biggest liability: the other players, as they mess up the generator skill checks to get caught instantly, and you sneak around in an attempt for a rescue, only to get caught yourself, then totally abandoned, until you finally learn your lesson and realize the best strategy... is to scramble over the proverbial corpse and just escape on your own, in gameplay that makes you wonder if it's made you a little more misanthropic just by playing it."
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Kinda have to agree.
I often find myself upset with what other survivors do as opposed to what the killers do/bring/are these days.
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Killers absolutely are more skillful than survivors on average. The primary reason for this is that killers are the reactionary role. The survivor has to learn how to loop, the killer has to learn how to counter it through mindgames and other tricks. If the survivor has no idea how to loop in a part of the map then the killer basically hooks them for free. Now consider that there is no training room in this game, no option for the survivor to really learn the loops, and that they're only going to be getting chased 1/4 of the time in their matches and most of them are naturally going to be terrible at the game. This also means that the killer is going to have an easier time learning how to play through public matches, as they get to observe what survivors do and try to counter it, but survivors have to first have all of this tile-chaining map knowledge from the get-go. It's kind of like a fighting game without a training room.
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Killers are on average about as good as the solo team. MMR makes sure of that. This means, they aren't better than every individual survivor but because matchmaking doesn't work perfectly, you'll have some people that are absolutely amazing with some that apparently play with their feet. And the killer will likely be better than the latter. Which often makes them a liabilaty instead of an asset and ruins the game for their team mates.
According to the last official stats, the game is balanced in pretty much exactly the way the devs wanted. A 60% kill rate is their goal and it's what they achieved for solo queue across the board (only very slight deviances).
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I absolutely agree with you. If you took the percentage of skilled killers versus the percentage of skilled survivors I think the killer side would have a much larger number. That is exactly why I think survivors are their own worst enemies, and often times the best perk any killer could have.
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Almost every match for me
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I've always been of the opinion that it's a 1 v 3 v 1 game, but that notion seems to get lost on the devs. The fact that you dying on hook is entirely up to the killer or the other survivors is enough proof.
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Yeah I just played 2 games and got left on first hook to die in both. Like a good little survivor, I didn't try to 4% and I hit every single skill check in second stage, lest I get accused of purposely letting go on hook. But no, they just sat on gens.
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I've noticed this more, survivors condemning survivors to get a chance at an escape.
Doesn't work out like it used to.
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I was about to shut the game down but decided to keep going and thankfully my next few games were alot better. No escapes but good teamwork. So sometimes it's still good.
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Sadly facts that most people dont want to hear and choose to ignore.
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This problem will not be resolved unless there is a change in consciousness on the part of survivors.
People who look forward to chases but complain about the lack of safe loops aren't really enjoying chases in the first place. As survivors, the best part of chases is figuring out how to interact with the killer in unsafe loops. If survivors throw it away, there's no way he's enjoying the chase.
Most of the people who say they can't completing gen haven't even touched gen properly. People who criticize tunnels don't use tactics to force the killer into difficult situations beforehand, and only complain after they get into trouble.
It's okay to aim for the flashlight, but you don't realize that it's a mistake to waste time endlessly chasing the killer's ass without touching the gen at all.
Even though it is possible to try not to crowd 3 gens even in soloQ, they try to complete the gen in front of they without thinking about it.
These "basic tactics" are the minimum requirements and must be possessed in order to call self an expert. But anyone can pretend to be an expert by talking about the premise as if it never existed in the first place.
What about this forum? Certain people leave the topic when it comes to theoretical topics, and when they discover a new topic that is more advantageous to them, they jump on it and say, ``As an expert survivor, I advise a killer to be considerate of a novice''
I don't know how many times I've said it all over this forum, but I'll say it again. I hate sophistry.
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Exactly but then the survivors blame the killer as if its my fault your teammates are giving up for benign reasons like oops im playing Freddy guess it was my fault
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Hm...I still to this day think that a game which requires teamplay should allow you some form of communication. Even after so long, we still can't see other survivor perks, which means you have no idea someone has deli, adrenaline, head on etc. The game itself handicaps solo survivors. Solo survivors will still be weak even then, but it might be slightly less clown fiesta.
I would even be up for perks being limited to once per survivor like in comp. Like maybe that should be the separate and "serious" mode.
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Challenges also don't help with this, challenges like certain glyphs, memory shards etc. I have had a few matches where people literally threw the game because of them.
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As a survivor main I agree with everyone you said in this comment
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The role of survivor is the most volatile role in the game. There are so many things that can go wrong purely because you need everyone to pull their own weight to win. Survivors need to work as a team, but the game does everything it can to stop survivors from coordinating. The matchmaking fails to match survivors with teammates of equal experience. This is why survivor matches fall apart so much. I sometimes see killers wishing they had teammates, but that feeling would soon go away after they had lost their tenth match in a row because of their teammates screwing things up for them.
It's not surprising that survivors are so prone to giving up. Unless they are in a full SWF, there is no consistency. The game punishes them for bad matchmaking and when their teammates screw up. Try playing well, but losing several matches in a row because your teammates were inept. See how it affects your mood and your willingness to play through matches that start of poorly.
People can get mad at survivors for not having enough mental fortitude to stick it out, but at some point will have to realise that the game's systems set survivors up for failure. The only way to avoid that is to go outside of the game's systems, and that is a terrible solution for the problems that the game itself creates.
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I agree with you. It's a game that keeps becoming more and more team oriented on the survivor's end, and the devs still refuse to implement any co-ordination or communication feature for survivors. The game works against solo survivors and I'm starting to think it's intentional, not that it makes it acceptable.
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I don't think it's intentional. I think the devs had no idea what this game was going to become when they built it. They don't want to commit to overhauling the game to fix it's fundamental problems, and are more happy just selling perks that address issues that the game has.
It is true that the survivor role is balanced as though everyone is playing at the highest level possible with a team on comms, which leaves everyone else in the dirt. The game just keeps getting less and less accessible to survivors who want to play solo (or don't have a choice), and haven't put in the mandatory one thousand hours needed to be considered competent.
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When I say intentional I mean, they are scared to add them I believe. Not doubting it is a challenge probably, but I think they over-estimate survivors and under-estimate killers imo.
But I have experience having played some chinese DBD (it's super similar to DBD) and communication can only do so much for survivors. Even there I still have afk survivors, survivors who go down in 10 seconds (literally) etc. Although certain aspects of it are more brutal, as both killers and survivors have unfair strengths (survivors are a lot more varied and have a unique identity and strength as well as cost less than killers🤣). Still you can use certain canned phrases and ping your location as well, as well as communicate traits/perks a killer might have brought (ex. Bamboozle). I do believe it would be an overall improvement and obviously there will still be survivors who will fail a lot regardless because decision making is also a skill. But at least we might stop having to deal with stupid bullshit strategies where it takes the team 3 gens to realize what the killer is going for.
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Couldn't agree more with this. Yesterday morning I played 8 survivor matches before I had to go out.
The first three games, the first survivor caught killed themselves on hook. Instant 4k for the killer.
The next two games, I died on first hook in one after no survivors came to get an easy rescue. 4k.
Next game I was on death hook and injured doing a gen at the opposite side of the map. One guy got hooked and the killer was chasing another survivor that had gone for the rescue. In the end I had to go because a healthy Steve that hadn't been hooked was hiding somewhere and didn't even attempt a rescue. Sure enough the killer comes back to hook just as I'm arriving. He dies 1st hook as well as me and it ended up another 4k after the hiding Steve got found by Ultimate Weapon.
The next three games I got decent team mates. I escaped all three times and the killer got 1 or 2 kills. All good games, that hinged on key moments where one mistake could have turned the game either way during the end game. Good killers, team mates carrying out rescues after end game collapse and doing their best to get everyone out. Almost felt like MMR was working perfectly.
More and more often lately though, the most dangerous killer in the game isn't Blight, Spirit, Billy or Nurse, it's that 4th survivor that has no interest in doing anything team orientated or just quits for no good reason at all a minute into the match.
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I love to see people complaining about solo Q, and I agree that solo Q is dreadful
However, are you playing it correctly? Are you bringing perks to help everybody, such as Kindred, Bond. We will Make It and Deja Vu?
Not to throw shade to anyone but sometimes I see people complaining about everything and they have in their build: Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, Off the Record, WoO, Adrenaline, a flashlight, etc. They bring Deliverance and get mad at the teammate rushing for a save. They bring Unbreakable and get mad at the teammate coming to heal you. They have Power Struggle and...yatta yatta
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I don't think we can fix this mess. You just have to hope that the good matches are enough to make you tolerate the bad ones.
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I saw this discussion this morning and read into it some, continued my matches. After several matches of dying SOLELY because of team-mates all morning, I agree. As I sit here, dead, I watch a Dwight in his natural habitat hiding. Is Dwight new? Not with Distortion, Kindred, Adrenaline and Clairvoyance. Why is Dwight doing this? A hatch challenge. Hiding on the edges of the map rendering this game a 3v1.
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Sometimes with the survivor HUD and the fact I run Bond quite a lot, it is silly the amount of times you see team mates basically sandbagging the rest of the team.
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Solo queue team mates are often the killer's best friend. Wandering around doing nothing for most of the match, or wasting good pallets, or feeding certain killers their power easily (Oni, Myers, Plague etc).
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Yes. Especially this portion of what you said:
"This is why survivor matches fall apart so much. I sometimes see killers wishing they had teammates, but that feeling would soon go away after they had lost their tenth match in a row because of their teammates screwing things up for them."
That is the reason I cringe so much every time I see a killer main on these forums give some variation of the argument "if the team didn't accomplish their objectives you deserved to lose". When I say I cringe when I hear that it's not even because it's not true. On a strictly technical level it's a true statement, but it fails to take one hugely important factor into account. As a survivor this is a team game in name only. Almost every single match you are going to be paired with at least one, if not more than one, survivors that are either intentionally or unintentionally a detriment to accomplishing goals. Being paired with 3 other survivors that are all not only actively trying to accomplish the goals, but doing so with some semblance of strategy and intelligence is extremely rare.
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Today I gave up on expecting much of my teammates and decided to run a full looping build. In two matches I was the last to go down, despite throwing myself at the killer and being the first person chased. Eventually they both just gave up on me and went for everyone else. I rescued my teammates, healed them, took protection hits for them, even got gens done, but it made no difference to the outcome.
Either the matchmaking consistently fails or there's just no intermediate survivors players left, so I just get weak players on my team. I outplayed those killers so hard, but I still lost and depipped. No matter what role I take in a match, I can never consistently win.
When it comes down to it, if the killer refuses to chase me and my teammates can't last more than thirty seconds in a chase then the match is doomed. No matter how well I play, I'm gonna get kicked down the MMR ladder where my teammates are even weaker.
I wish I knew people who wanted to play this game so I could get out of this loop of losing matches constantly. Having a SWF is the only way to ensure that your skill as survivor is rewarded.
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Other Survivors are a bigger detriment to survival than even the killer lol
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I agree completely. You can take the killer on a good almost 30-60 second long chase, and your solo que team mates will be running around each other in a circle by the last gen that needs completed. That actually happened to me. Solo que team mates have to actually be both motivated to win and have actual game sense, which can be asking a lot of them sometimes.
Too many people also quit at the drop of a hat. I had a match as Singularity on Red Forest where I caught a Mikaela, and she DC'd after I hooked her. I ended up 4K'ing, and in the endgame screen, I saw she had Deliverance. It was a game with Singularity on Red Forest, a notoriously difficult map for killer in general and him specifically, and they got down to the last gen with 3 people and a bot. I imagine they could have won if Mikaela hadn't quit. Too many people quit because they personally don't like playing against that specific killer or their build somehow gets countered.
People don't play survivor like a team game, they play it like a series of 1v1s, and BHVR's balancing to make killer more consistent is just making this issue more apparent. The killer playing well in a chase is made more significant by the fact that 2 of the survivor's team mates spent that chase time doing nothing or worse, tailing the killer to get a flashlight save that they end up missing.
I think certain perk effects like Bond and Nancy's perk Better Together should be made basekit (like Shadowborn for killers). It wouldn't make team mates who aren't interested in teamwork any better, but it would reduce the amount of misplays that occur due to a lack of communication. SWFs have this information anyway, so it would just be making solo que and SWF a little more equitable.
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NEWS FLASH NOT EVERFYONE WANTS TO PLAY THE GAME THE WAY YOU DO!!!!
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Most of my solo que games, I find the ones where I escape are the ones where the team actually works as a team. Survivors can't really "carry" their team. The need to work together.
People who hide on the edge are the opposite of this. I think one part of this is that too many people consider the hatch to be a "win." The number of survivors who click flashlights and teabag at the hatch suggests that they still consider it a win, despite the fact that it's a pity escape to make the last 1v1 more interesting.
Honestly, despite the fact that we have DC bots, they haven't helped as much as they should have because more people just kill themselves on hook to avoid the DC penalty. Normally, I'm against removing DC penalties in games, but I'm really starting to wonder if removing the DC penalty is the lesser of two evils in this case, because at least the people left in the game will have a bot team mate instead of a 3v1 60 seconds into the match. 🤷♂️
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I 100% agree the biggest issue with solo queue is & always has been teammates & thats not something that can ever actually be fixed even if Mmr was the best system in the world you'd still get games where survivors are either goofing off, paying zero attention to the game or having an absolute melt down & looking for a way out of the game for the most stupid of reasons.
Between that & hard tunnelling solo queue has one hell of a rough time in many a game!
However there are still some who play the team game, I will 100% play for the team in every game & do gens, save when needed (at the right time) take aggro (then probably get tunnelled out for it obviously because well "I asked for it") & i'll sacrifice myself to get others out if I believe they deserved to get out (but only if I believe they will get out so many gift the killer a 3k in end game that should've been a 1k)
I only play solo my escape rate last year was around 60% now its around 45% (including the sacrifices to save others) & I mostly play adept (all survivors) or with full intel builds.
I wouldn't say the game has zero issues & survivors need no help but solo will always in many ways come down to who's on my team, who are they playing for & what's their mentality today.
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You mean play competently?
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DBD is a multiplay game, and therefore, its by nature always the fault of other people.
Or Elo Hell. Dont forget about Elo Hell.
PS. I am super glad we cant see MMR. If we would, this forum would be full of Elo Hell postings.
PPS. You are not wrong with what you say 😉
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I play to get saves and memes so gens aren't part of my game loop. You doing gens and not getting downed ruins my game loop so you need to start playing competently for my playstyle.
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So you're playing survivor but you're not helping do the objective in order to survive and you want your team mates to go down instead of doing the objective they're supposed to do.
Is that what you're telling me?
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On the flipside, you often see complaints about team mates not lasting longer than 20s in chase. Do they bring team perks or perks to help them waste the killer's time? How do you determine which is "correct"?
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LOL
Have you EVER played solo queue survivor? Half my teammates are mouth breathing window lickers who wouldn't sit on a gen if you dropped it on their heads. There's a reason I run Sole Survivor + Clairvoyance + Windows + Red Herring, I call this build Bad Teammate Insurance.
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I also call it bad teammate insurance, cause it means those teammates are always onsured to be bad and selfish. Very good name
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A good survivor doesn't need meta perks to beat 90% of the killers out there. I don't need DS + DH + OTR + SB to waste a killer's time, unlike you.
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If pick me's where in DBD they would sound just like you. Still waiting on your stats btw.
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I read that the same way you did
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Translation: this person intentionally plays in a way they know sabotages the other survivors and doesn't care
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I think if we had two more people like you and me, we could get two or three surbvivors out to gate. You may have experienced such a match.
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100% yes I am sa ing them when they get picked up by the killer
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Translation I play to have fun
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THANK YOU. Jeezus, finally someone on here gets it.
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