I'm afraid that Dead by Daylight has become too fast
Hello,
I'm glad that no one can see their own MMR. I think otherwise total chaos would break out and a toxic city would be inevitable. There are already a lot of streamers and players who think they have a high MMR or are imagining it. Last weekend was by far the sweatiest weekend I've ever played. To be honest, I don't even know if it was because of my MMR. I also don't know if I'm high, medium or low, but what bothers me is what Dead by Daylight has become.
This game just doesn't compare to 2016 anymore and I get that, but Dead by Daylight is just a race now. Genrush versus tunneling. That's all this game is anymore.
A chase or a fun build only works against weak opponents now, because otherwise the generators fly around your ears and the game is over in 5 minutes. You can no longer play normally and I find that sad.
If you want to level up, you have to play a meta build, and that's frustrating. It's bad enough that there's a meta in a game, and YT and Twitch have contributed a lot to that. There's just too much copying going on, and the result is a boring disaster. But that's just my opinion
Do you agree that DBD has become too fast, or am I the only one with this opinion?
Comments
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Yes I completely agree the game has gotten too fast. I would love for the game to be slowed down some more.
You’re definitely not the only one who feels this way.
Good luck out there 💪
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Thank you, I wish you the same
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Agreed. It often feels like everything comes down to one crucial moment. One bad chase or one bad move on the survivors' side. Like both sides cannot win the game at a normal pace anymore but only if they progress so fast, that their opponent cannot keep up.
That's why many of my games are so short and I am for the first time in 2 years beginning to doubt my abilities to perform well without slowdown perks. I used to be able to play in different ways to change the pace of the game but lately it has not worked out for me.
On the other hand, survivors cannot exactly play a slower game either. Because then someone is tunneled out early and they find themselves with one person dead at 3 gens remaining. So both sides need to be slowed down a bit. Unfortunately that is always guaranteed to be tied to the gen repair time, which bears the problem that longer gens aren't exactly more fun for survivors.
This is really not easy to fix. We had seen a meta where both sides tried to slow their opponent (pre 6.1.0) but we do not need that same meta to return either. Not that it would work with the current gen regression perks anyway.
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I totally agree with you.
When i play killer, i know one mistake will cost me the game. One long chase and 3 gens already done.
Same goes for survivor. When i see my teammate is working on totem or searching chest, i know it's game over. And funny thing, it's usually lose.
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I still think they need to entirely remove the ability to speed up or regress gens manually. Give them a set amount of repair needed. Remove kicks. Have gens naturally regress slowly when not being repaired. No way for the killer to absolutely dump a gen progress anymore, but survivors can't just power through them insanely fast, either. Gens would be a lot more consistent in the natural flow of the game.
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Yes. It's become too competitive, thus creating an atmosphere where both sides feel the need to get their respective objectives completed as soon as possible.
Not making excuses for survivors, but there really is nothing else for them to do but gens. It's in their best interest to do gens and get the hell out as soon as possible. Like any other decent Asymmetrical Survival Horror Game, the longer survivors/victims stay in game, the less of a chance they have to escape. This is because resources become scarce, making it easier for the killer to get hits/kills.
Killers with decent secondary objectives (Pinhead & Pig), should probably be modeled after when designing future killer powers. Maybe it's time for all killers to give survivors a secondary objective that punishes if ignored. Freddy's dream world needs to be more unforgiving and be in survivors' best interest to wake themselves up. Maybe being asleep should cause most actions to be hindered: running, vaulting, gen speed, healing, cleansing, opening, etc. Future Hexs should be on the same level as Hex: Plaything & Hex: Pentimento. You can choose not to look for your totem, but doing so comes with a high risk. This is even more so on maps with poor sight lines & high structures. I say add a 6th totem to maps and hide them a little better. Small changes like these should lengthen matches a little longer. Hell, increase gen repair time by 6 seconds while you're at it.
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From my experience the mistakes that usually end up game ending on survivors are more like healing in a bad spot, grouping up on a gen and getting found or a poorly timed unhook. I have not seen quite so many times when my survivor team mates would do a side objective, which resulted in us losing (as a killer it's usually a bit hard to tell when that happens, so I dare not guess how many times this is the case). Though, I suppose you play more survivor than me, so I respect your opinion on the matter.
Out of curiosity, do you have an idea how to balance this out? I have thought about this a bit but so far I could not come up with a solution that would please both sides. Longer gen times aren't the way to go and more meta perks that act as side objectives could help but they wouldn't prevent the extremes, so I'm not sure how effective this would end up being.
We would need to limit the effectiveness of tunneling, no doubt (possibly proxy camping as well). But tweaking only one side would not have the desired outcome. The more I think about it, the more I believe that our short-sightedness both with limiting certain strategies and perks as well as map reworks are at least partially to blame for this situation.
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The competitive scene and the constant barrage of meta builds on streaming services has taken the game away from its previous iterations and more suspenseful play into a series of races.
The best trials are those which take longer, but you don't necessarily notice the time because the trial is so involving. Stories evolve within it, yet the trial never overstays its welcome.
I still greatly enjoy the game, but the storytelling has become less and less in trials. Quite a few players become two-dimensional, paint-by-numbers predictable. Predictability bring boredom. If BHVR created a permanent game mode whereby every trial within the mode was 100% randomised, I doubt I would ever leave that mode.
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Patch 7.7.0:
Gen repair time increased to 450 seconds (was 90), Decisive Strike is now basekit and stuns 7 seconds. Now, if they broadcast on Twich or YT, they have to censor the perks (otherwise they delete the video due to copyright).
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The only way to fix this, changing objectives. I am not saying remove hooks and generators. But add more objectives for both sides and ofcourse balance numbers around it.
This would give them chance for new perk types as well.
Ofcourse i have no idea what type objectives we would get but i am sure devs would figure out since it's their job after all.
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players didnt invent this meta, the devs did. dbd cannot be a slow game as long as killers like blight exist. you'd need to add more content and objectives into the game but also more health to balance it out. nerfing the higher tier and faster killers would just make the game boring and piss off lots of players see hillbilly's nerf.
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An objective besides hooks would be interesting. There had already been some suggestions for side objectives on the survivors side, so they have something to go by but for killer I find it a bit harder to come up with something.
Thanks for your input though. I'll give it some thought.
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Side objectives will be always ignored. So i think both sides needs additional main objectives. That would give natural slowdown for both sides. If killer decide to tunnel someone out, he would ignore his other objective which would make him lose the game. Same for survivors.
But i don't know what type objectives would be. For survivors, actually it's not too hard. Maybe make them search some gas for repair gens. For killers? I really have no idea.
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I think the main problem with dbd is that there are so few perks that are actually viable every build ends up being ~2-4 meta perks minmum. If they made at least half the perks viable and fun meta would still exist but the niche builds and options you have on both sides would vary a lot more than just meta perks all the time. Take tf2 for example. On paper the direct hit is the meta choice since it does more damage but as its harder to use its more of a side grade unless you can aim compared to stock. More perks that vary the play experience and scale with player skill would create a more diverse meta and more diverse builds.
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Completly agree.
My suggestion: Add more pallets, playable loops and more bushes to hide, but also add a 2nd objective. I am down for rounds that last 2-3 minutes longer.
But that wont happen, since killer mains will only read "more pallets", stop their and feel already offended.
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So slow down survivors. Ok. But what about killers? You pointed out that the longer survivors remain in the match the greater their chance of losing, but then just said they should be slowed down with secondary objectives and increased base gen times. I kept waiting for some inkling of like balance because you admitted survivors die in longer games but then, like, nothing. lol. So does it start and stop there?
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Looking through this thread is a bit funny as someone who has played on and off since before Pig release, this game is actually slower than it has ever been. There's challenges, tons of slowdown perks for killer, BNP nerfed, toolboxes nerfed, healing nerfed, I mean the list goes on. The fact of the matter is that efficiently playing the game as survivor usually results in a loss for killer due to the amount of pressure 4v1 is and I don't think the dev's want to change that judging by the changes that have been made since I've been playing. At the end of the day what matter is having fun, and with the stats they released it seems like the game is finally in a good spot balance wise.
That being said the experience is different for sure, despite all the nerfs to speed and slowdown perks the game doesn't feel that much slower and its mainly because the slowdown is really only a dozen seconds here or there in the span of a 7-15 min game. The real thing that kills survivors is being grouped up and losing pressure, and the thing that hurts killers is survivors all working on different gens and looping effectively. We have to remember that there is still a careful balance the devs have seemed to stick to in regards to game time and pushing the game too far in either direction could hurt the game overall.
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Miss him, and several of the OG streamers.
Especially Puppers. 💕
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I am loathe to compare this game with TCM, but they do have one feature worth exploring imo: multiple ways to accomplish the objective.
Killers do have moris, but they're so rarely used for years now. And yes Hatch exists for survs. But in normal gameplay it's kill the survs and do the gens to get out. That's it.
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That works in TCM I think because you have equal teams (4v4). Additionally, both sides can actively sabotage/set back the opposing team’s progress.
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Even if they do have more side objectives it won't change the fact that this game is more about MMR over fun
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I pointed out why it’s in the survivors best interest to rush gens, to show there isn’t any bad intent. Gen rushing has a very negative connotation in our community, and it really shouldn’t because survivors don’t have anything else to do. So in order to reduce these fast competitive games of gen rushing, camping, and tunneling- I made suggestions to slow the match down a little. Hopefully this will incentivize killers to actually play and chase more, allowing them not to have to rely so heavily on camping and tunneling. Hopefully that will translate into more fun matches for both sides: survivors get to do something else besides hold W, survivors don’t have to feel like they wasted their time and money on a game that allows one person to ruin the experience by tunneling and camping them out the match in 5 minutes, and killers get quality chases without the pressure of gens flying.
PTB & community feedback will determine whether it starts or stops there.
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I’m with you that there needs to be some way to make the experience more enjoyable. But suggesting that slowing survivors down will achieve this is flat out wrong. Survivors were at their slowest during the Erupt-Over-Brine META. And guess what killers still did? 😏
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It amazes me people still use this argument after that meta. Were they not around? Do they have a bad memory or do they just not care at all but pretend they do? Like that was the meta that gave us basekit BT, so I can only guess how much worse that period after 6.1 and until basekit BT was. I mean I was learning the gMe during that period lol.
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I think they should add secondary objectives that can be done in addition to gens and escaping. Link completing the side objectives to lore and shards. If the game isn't going your way, you can just try to escape, but if you're a sweaty swf team that could finish the game in 2minutes while harassing the killer, you instead try to milk as much side objective out of the game. Taking side objectives too far will increase chances for killer to get a kill or 2 and add pressure to even the sweatiest swf while making the game more fun for everyone.
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It has become too fast and that's to the benefit of Bhvr, the shorter the game the less you can see of its broken buggy mess.
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I still strongly believe that this was created by killer behavior. Say what you want but if every killer goes into the game with the intention of tunneling someone out asap then it will create a state where every survivor will believe that the only way they can escape is to be as efficient as possible. On top of the fact that the two best anti-tunnel perks have been completely gutted. Those being DS and DH. I called it back during the out cry for dh to be nerfed that I would rather have 4 DH's in my game than 4 sprint bursts or liths any day and that if dh got nerfed that would be all we would see. Now that is the world we live in where you show up to a gen that you know is in a dead zone just to watch the survivor SB to shack or a stronger tile. Dh had counter play SB not so much. Same goes for DS. Killers use to respect it, now no one cares because it's just a joke. At the same time where the two best anti-tunnel perks got gutted killers got the best "where is my tunnel" perk Ultimate Weapon. I'm sorry but that perk needs to be addressed. I've seen it to many times where the survivors fight tooth and nail to protect the player being hard tunneled and actually get the killer to loose where that player is only for them to go open a locker and be right back on them. I'm sorry but UW is truly unhealthy for the game. But no one wants to talk about that.
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I strongly disagree. you've described some games. not all. you're making sweeping generalizations and it's not overall true. I have a lot of fun as soloQ survivor and the games are varied. I mix up my perks. and that changes my game play. I get the same killer multiple times a night and the games are widely different.
I'm sorry your experience with the game has become stale... however that just is not the experience of everyone. I love where the game is heading and I think the game is SO much better than where it was in say 2016 like you mentioned...
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Agreed. Way too fast, and WAY too sweaty...especially for a game with ZERO Comp mode and a barely functional MMR.
DBD needs(and has needed) help for a long time. No other game like this one, so it's a damn shame that it's almost always a train wreck where the conductors(BHVR) have nothing but dollar signs in their eyes and have abandoned common sense.
Just play other games or take a break. DBD isn't fun or even bearable unless I'm playing SWF or Customs anymore: playing Killer at my MMR(mid-to-high, I assume) is ######### torture cuz I don't play like an #########(or want to, EVERY MATCH) or run meta/busted loadouts that aren't fun to VS, and I'm a Killer-main since launch, so.....
BHVR needs to wake up from their financial fever dream cuz DBD just isn't fun anymore and even though DBD is the Horror Asymmetrical heavyweight right now, they're in danger of falling away cuz people are getting bored and other games are JUST MORE FUN, or ACTUALLY fun, in comparison. Lethal Company and Helldivers 2, ftw....I'm sick of defending the dumpster fire that is BHVR and DBD, but I'm Stockholm syndrome'd here, so please understand.....I love the game and have been playing since launch and absolutely ABHOR the way the game is treated by BHVR and played by its community........but I can only pull away for "breaks" nowadays....
Such a frustrating loop/cycle. Fingers crossed.
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i personally think that the speed of the game is fine. its in a good spot
for the type of game dead by daylight is, it can be a bit of a drag if the game lasts more than 20 minutes. dbd has turned into something similar to smash ultimate. additionally, you're dealing with a much more skilled playerbase now that the game has been out for 8 years. dead by daylight has been optimized enough by players to offer the best efficiency they can manage for their skill level.
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Cannot agree more with this. On both sides I feel like the game is too fast. Solo queue I get to end game a lot now even though I die like 85-90% of the time. On killer if I play a bad game I get crushed if I play a good game they still get all the gens done and have a chance at 1-2 escapes. It's insane. Really frustrating to play killer atm. Idk what needs to be done to fix this but it is not good for the game. I wish the devs would share some data on avg game time and avg number of gens completed. It has to be near 5 complete per game now.
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Yes its too fast and every match feels the same, and boring. It's direction is predictable on both sides.
I've gone back to playing re resistance until the update to see if things improve.
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They should make it so at the third generator pop if there is 4 people left in the trial that something happens to keep them from continuing the gens. Like a certain totem only they see must be cleansed or maybe an Entity shrine must be destroyed. Something to force the survivors away from gen rushing.
To keep killers from tunneling you could make it so if the killer has only hooked 1 person twice without being in chase with at least 1 other survivor for 24 seconds then the survivor gets a boon that gives them OTR but with a longer hit speed body with no scratch marks. Punish single minded tunneling, not reward bad survival skills like running into the killer.
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It would be desirable if this situation were to change in the future
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New layer of objectives is needed.
- Finish 5 gens (90s per one) to power the control panel
- Use the control panel (60s, cannot regress , 2 of them on the map) to unlock 7 different storage containers (2 of them contain gate keys)
- Find the keys and unlock the gates (normal unlocking method as it is currently, 20s)
While on killer side :
- Hook survivors as usual
- After sacrifice they end up in the void realm, go there and mori them
- If they remain in the void for longer than 2 minutes , a portal opens and they return to the trial (they remain on death hook stage and injured). But if hooked again they are sacrificed for good instantly.
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wow, that's a really interesting suggestion. I would support it. Provided it was technically feasible
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None of these features is anything new. So I think that it would not take much to implement. DBD would definitely benefit from more complexity and dynamic gameplay.
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dynamic gameplay *this absl. yes :)
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