Win Streaks
People typically gauge their win streaks by kills.
For the sake of trying to play fairly would you consider it a win for the killer if he got 7 or 8 hooks regardless of kills since that’s typically a harder achievement since you kept them all alive?
I personally view 7 hooks as a win and equivalent to 3 kills as to me that’s at least as hard if not harder than getting 3 kills since I didn’t reduce their numbers and had to juggle more/apply more pressure. I would consider 6 a tie though.
Win Streaks 28 votes
Comments
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Yes only 8 hooks or more
I would usually say 7 or 6 is a tie and 8 and above is a win, regardless of kills.
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Yes only 8 hooks or more
I mean, my mind saying 8 hooks and more is a win, but my heart can't agree about this, when i see all survivors on a gates even with 8 hooks. Especially when they bm you and you 5 minutes ago was like "oh i will let this guy live, i don't want to sweat".
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Yes only 8 hooks or more
i make everybody dead on hook then be friendly so i win all the time if this one is the way
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Yes 7 hooks would still be a win
Seems a pretty even split. I just don’t like to be forced into tunneling people out when doing a win streak since I’d rather play for hooks since I think it shows more skill and the survivors a more enjoyable game. However I don’t want my streak “invalidated” because I didn’t want to tunnel. Unfortunately for as much as the community hates tunneling it feels like I’m forced to or it wasn’t a “win”.
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
Even if the hook state reaches 9, one kill is a defeat for the killer, and the hook state management tactics on the survivor's side should be praised. Survivors with skills to counter tunnels manage hook states very well.
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Yes only 8 hooks or more
If the killer manages to 8 hook people that is mostly due to the killer explicitly wanting to do so...
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
While the tactic of tunneling people out often feels cheap and bad to play against, I feel like only counting hook states removes a lot of macro gameplay and managing hook states on both survivor and killer side.
That said, a "win condition" is never defined by the game itself and can absolutely be personal or not the traditional 3 kills. I definitely wouldn't mind people setting personal winstreak goals that don't rely on kills. Going for 8 hooks can be more impressive even, since you're keeping all the survivors in the gamw for as long as possible.
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Yes 7 hooks would still be a win
Wouldn’t you call juggling more survivors that are alive way, way more macro game play than just the macro play of..I remember who has hooks?
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
That's not all. When we have survivors who have a good understanding of what is good and bad behavior in the game, the hook state is controlled by the survivor who takes the gen hostage and threatens to come after me. Therefore, among advanced players, the killer tunnel is basically considered a weak strategy. When the killer reaches a point where it's okay to tunnel, he can finally do it, but the survivors stand around to prevent him from doing so.
1 hooked survivor is chased, will move away from the area where other survivors are planning to complete the gen, making the killer less likely to pursue them. This is because if killer chase them there, you will lose the ability to stop the gen that has become free. Even if killer get add 1 hook, it will be too late.
Once survivors get to this level of tactics, no one will wear Calm Spirit or Distortion. These tend to bias the hook state in favor of the killer. Instead, a combination of Self Care and Botany has become popular, allowing patients to receive treatment in time for any situation, and sometimes, due to the flexibility of treatment, to abandon treatment and take the necessary action when time is short. This is because even if survivors are separated, they can be treated later. Of course all actions are for gen completion. This allows them to win and lose matches that many survivors believe are unwinnable. There is no reason to go out of their way to commit suicide.
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Yes only 8 hooks or more
There is no way self care and botany would be used by better players xD
Besides that I stick by my statement, to 8 hook people is mostly the killers choice, sure you can throw yourself in the way to prevent a tunnel and what not, but he is not forced to hook you, he can just slug you and continue the chase.
I dont think it is considered a weak strategy, hard tunneling one person is maybe, juggling two is not, but you don't necessarily need to tunnel to not end up on 8 hooks...
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
One match as an example.
This is a video about how the perk Reassurance improved the situation, but the player talks about how to do his best without being tunneled from a situation where he got 2 hook states and had no choice but to avoid tunnels. At the same time, we are trying to increase the survivability of the entire team. Of course, other survivors behave similarly. As a result, the match went from almost being wiped out to one where the killer was forced into a corner.
The survivors in this match are at the top level, but you can tell by looking at each of the killer's actions that the killer is at a top level as well. Even if they are not at this top level, if the skills of both the killer and survivor are comparable, it is quite possible for the survivors to strive in the same way even in soloQ.
Also, pay attention to the results. The majority of survivors who can put on such a great match have the self care and botany perks. Why? Unlike people who commit suicide or DC as a matter of course, they have experienced these reversal matches many times. They know the effectiveness of it.
Most people who watch this video will probably end up thinking that the match was just a case of the survivor being good at chasing and killer being bad, and thinking it was a match that killer didn't go well. If you can't understand the details of what the survivors are doing to win, you won't understand that the tunnel is fundamentally weak.
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
To add more, this is a result of 1k after all, so if I were forced to give an example of 8 hooks, I would have to look for a concrete example, but I think it suggests that 8 hooks are realistic.
I personally don't remember it happening more than 2 or 3 times, but I have definitely experienced such matches.
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Yes only 8 hooks or more
If tunneling is fundamentally weak, why does every killer in comp just tunnel 1 guy out to create a 3 v1 as fast as possible?
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
The reason why the killer's tunneling is generally considered weak is that it is a bad move that promotes the completion of gen for survivors who have not been tunneled. Of course, this depends on the survivor's overall awareness of gen. The balance of power is messed up by survivors who are not interested in gen.
There are exceptions of course, if a downed survivor simply has a really bad loop movement, in which case the killer will tunnel because tunneling will solve the problem much faster than the gen completing.
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Yes only 8 hooks or more
Still does not explain it in comp... The reason is because with 4 people the efficiency leans more towards survivors, which is why the killer wants to turn it into a 3 v 1 to be able to 4k them before all gens get done... There is no weak link in a comp team.
Sure if you tunnel in pub games you will see that be true, but you talked about the top before, so comp it is and basically everyone tunnels there because it is required to some degree to get a decent result...
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Yes only 8 hooks or more
As for your example game what kind of weird build is the killer running? Is this supposed to be some weird comp rules? Because otherwise why would you run dying light? But the survivors have perk doubles so probably not?
I dont know if the Gen spread was bad or if the map is just to cluttered to play like that, but usually when you see singularity in a comp setting he will just pick out a 3 Gen and hold it, and it, at least to my understanding, really hard to break, but I didn't really see anything like that here.
Some time ago when they released the stats on perk usage everyone was confused about self care being so high, because of how bad the perk is, but then someone, I think it was Hens(?), said that for whatever reason the perk is super popular in Asia... Which might be coincidence but whatever. However at least I Europe people don't really use self care, as it is considered a terrible perk...
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
Well, it's true that in the past, even in Asia, players who used self-care were thought to be lower players who couldn't collaborate with other survivors. I think that was fine at the time. In fact, there was a time when injured survivors could get away with it if they met other survivors and asked for treatment without panic.
Personally, I think the situation reached a turning point after Bright entered the war. He is extremely mobile and his ability to navigate the map is second to none, even compared to Nurse. The only exception is Wraith, which uses certain add-ons over and over again.
In any case, around this time, the risks for survivors of acting with increased significantly, and because treatment methods were too limited, accidents and situations in which they were left in the lurch by killers were increasing. What can we do to counter it? Will make it? After all, the situations where it can be used are too limited. The practicality of self-care has thus been reconsidered. At that time, the recovery time was still fast, and even if I had someone else treat me, it would be a sacrifice of time for both of us, so it was re-evaluated that it would be more reasonable to do self-care alone, considering the time and effort required to meet others.
But later, a self-care ice age hits. Recovery time has increased significantly. The survivors thought. I've come to the conclusion that it's time to ditch self-care and that from now on, if I really want to win, I need a medi-kit. For a while here, Self Care regained its name as lower Park.
After a while, the survivors reconsidered. In the end, there are an increasing number of cases where Medikits alone are not enough. I had to come up with a plan to properly counter the killer. After trying many different things, they realized that botany, which helps others recover quickly, is powerful, and self-care works minimally loss when combined with it.
Historically, this is why self-care is used in conjunction with botany.
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Yes only 8 hooks or more
I don't see the relevance of any of this for the topic we were at though?
Blight and Billy are the most mobile killers in the game, Wraith is not even 3rd I think. Nurse is by no definition a high mobility killer... But for some reason people seem to believe that... Go ask Knightlight if she is, he is one of the best Nurses in the comp scene and to my knowledge the last time his answer was "Nurse is an area control killer, as you can sit in the middle of a 3 Gen and nobody can touch a generator without you being able to get a hit on them.
Self care is a God awful perk that takes ages to heal yourself, being way less efficient than just getting healed by another survivor and even with botany knowledge it is still not really good, only less bad.
Really good players don't have an issue with staying injured, they are completely fine to not get healed against most killers. Newer players however feel at risk when they go down in one hit, however sometimes it is just way too time consuming to heal so you need to decide what to do... However self care just seems to be the solution for those people who don't want to evaluate a situation and decide whether to heal or not because they can do it alone, but waste a whole lot of time. So no nothing of this convinces me that people running self care are actually good players.
Besides that you still did not explain why exactly the game you showed was supposed to be high level despite Singularity not playing as ideal as you would expect and why the killer was not at fault for not just making into a 3 v 1...also you still lack the reason why tunneling is a bad strategy but the best players in the game, the comp players, tunnel in every tournament they play... Would you care to give an explanation for any of those things?
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
Well, in a high MMR where only Blight and Nurse are always present, how many survivors can complete 5 gen against these two without getting knocked down while injured? If there were that many people, I don't think everyone would tweet about the two major killers as if they were a disaster on this forum.
And as I thought, you don't seem to be able to read the details in the video, so you probably don't know his skill from the location of Singularity's M2. So no more conversation can take place.
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Yes only 8 hooks or more
The soft cap for mmr got decreased several times, which is why not only nurse and Blight are present there... The phrase "high mmr" just does not mean anything anymore.
People will sometimes heal, sure, but pretty sure not with self care.
I didn't have the killers perspective so sure I guess. I still find your point hardly arguable to refer to Exactly one game that wasn't even comp level and say it is on the survivor's if the killer 8 hooks people xD But Allright then I guess ^^
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
For my streaks it's 3k or 4k, because well the role is killer so a win should be kills and that's what I enjoy but even beyond that I would honestly find trying to two hook everyone a massive chore and it just wouldn't be fun for me to do.
That being said there are many types of streaks and if you wanted to do a 8 hook 0k streak I see no reason it should be deemed invalid.
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
Would it count as a win for Survivors if they repaired all the Generators to 85% but didn't actually complete any of them?
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Yes 7 hooks would still be a win
See that’s what’s tough to me. I personally think 8 hooks is significantly harder and more skill requiring than a 3k even as well as letting everyone have more fun but it seems from here that my streak is deemed invalid and doesn’t count if I do that. For it to be a valid streak it seems I’m forced to use less skill and make everyone have a bad time.
So the community wants people to play more fair but at the same time encourages the opposite.
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No, it’s a loss unless he gets the 3+ kills
So three thoughts here
1. I don't think it's fair to say one takes more skill than the other I think it's different skills cuz you don't have to worry about gens for the 8k but you don't have to care about tunneling for the 3k.
2. The forums don't represent the entire community lol it doesn't really matter what people tell you on here. If you wanna do it then do it.
3. Fairness is subjective but also DBD more than any other game I've played has this weird obsession to being nice to the other side that I don't really get. You get stomped in any other game it's considered part of the game and you move on but in DBD if you stomp in a game people act like you committed a war crime it's bizarre to me personally.
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Yes 7 hooks would still be a win
- Why would you not need to care about gens for the 8 hook? That doesn't make sense. Better map pressure and control on gens leads to more hooks. Keeping 4 survivors up as opposed to get one out asap to juggle 3 is objectively easier. 3k taking less skill than 8 hooks doesn't seem subjective to me. Completing all the chases for 8 hooks requires skill however there are many ways to get 3 kills that doesn't take skill.
- That's true. However forum/youtube media is what matters since that's where you'd be showing a streak or using to make a point. Those will be the people receiving that point. So even if they aren't representing the entire community, they are the judgement of that streak when it's presented in any context.
- I agree. My more reasoning is because I think it shows more skill and it's quite frankly just more fun for me personally. The more fun for others is just a side bonus, not the main point of it.
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