Just fricking make survivors literal invincible after a hook
Like, literally absolutely invincible, until killer hooks others or survivor touches gen, no hitbox.
This is not a trolling and I'm 100% sure this will fix tunneling.
No need for BT DS blah blah blah blah fixes, just one dumb invincible mode will do.
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so a survivor can do whatever he wants and killer can basically nothing about it? how does that sound balanced at all?
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Remove hook notifications would be another good fix , sick of these teleporting killers or high mobility killers coming back to EVERY unhook they hear, am talking literally doing it willingly because even if you wait till they come across the map they still come back to it to tunnel.
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what is killer supposed to do if they couldnt find any survivors to chase?
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Open their eyes and ears and and search better or use perks like spies/whispers or your abundance of aura reading crutches.
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no killer will use spies or whispers. returning to the hook is the best play killer can do if they couldnt find a chase they could win. and aura reading gets deleted by distortion.
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Yeah that would be a good start. At least behavior wouldn‘t encourage tunneling then.
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Hard to agree, hitting rescuer is valid and should be allowed.
Invincibility is literally the best and least invasive basekit.
Survivor can just go anywhere and do a thing, but nothing more.
Have you read OP after all?
Oh also balance is not the concern here, if kill rates drop too much maybe make all killers to have +0.2 movement speed or something?
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Just admit you like tunneling, I seen survivors who had no distortion=the killer sees them with bbq begins to chase them but then as soon as they hear that hook notification they drop the chase with that person and comes right back and you know it. Trying that distortion excuse was a good attempt.
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So a survivor with a flashlight just needs to run at the killer so they can be unhooked and follow the killer around preventing them from ever hooking another survivor.
As long as DBD is an elimination game, survivors cannot be literally invincible.
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Oh that's a problem, maybe remove invincibility when a survivors have flashlights, and drop lights when they are getting hooked?
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returning to the hook isnt tunneling. and survivor might ignored them due them being competent looper. there is nothing wrong with killer focusing on the weak link.
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they can follow you around making impossible to hook others if they have flashlights or teammate fell under the pallet.
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Yeah sounds something exactly what a tunneler would say, anyways this is why killers should stop complaining about swf bullies when they treat solo que players like garbage.
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As I said in another thread, just make this game survivor only and use AI killers. I can't really stand crying survivors anymore, playing killer is just frustrating and you always be the bad guy, socially speaking, whatever you do.
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I think they could do this with these exceptions
- After a character is hooked
- Effects last 10secs
- Character has no hitbox (cannot interact with killer or block it) and cannot be affected by other actions.
- Effects last until duration expires or any action is performed.
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if we´re making them invencible, the survivor shouldn´t even be able to do anything until another survivor gets hooked
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"Use perks" is the exact same thing you and your team should be doing if you're going for risky unhooks. If you unhook and then let the killer tunnel off hook with no safety net that is a mistake on your part. Trade a health or hook state for your teammate, or run the killer. In some cases you can't prevent it which sucks, but majority of the time tunneling is completely preventable by altruism, even more so with strong anti-tunneling perks.
Returning to hook isn't tunneling, the actions upon arrival to hook is what determines if it is or isn't. If a killer returns to hook and chases the person who got the unhook is it tunneling? No. Even if they do tunnel after the person who got unhooked, again, you or your teammates should be trading blows and running killer to prevent tunneling, then run off to heal and reset. It's a core part of high level play as survivor.
At 2 gens, should you chase another survivor at full health or should you go where you KNOW two survivors are, possibly down one, and down the other in chase? I've had situations like this and going after the lone survivor when you can double your pressure towards end game is such an obvious choice, you'd be dumb to chase the lone survivor esp if he's not dead on hook.
This is the exact issue with granting survivors immunity off of hook. Unless you make it so doing LITERALLY anything drops them out of it they will just abuse it by getting free flashlight or pallet saves. BT is supposed to be an anti-tunneling perk but you literally see survivors with BT take the hit to save their teammate instead of leaving hook to prevent being tunneled. We can't have more extreme anti-tunneling because skilled survivors will find a way to abuse it and turn it from "anti tunnel" into "how can I make the killer miserable" which just makes all killers bring Exposed or Gen Regression perks.
As long as the survivor does something after being unhooked it's basically fair game. If your team is crouch walking the edges of the map and you're the only one out in the open getting gens done, you can't really call tunneling bc the killer is only able to find you. Survivor's ofc will still call "tunneling" even though their team is to blame in pretty much every instance regarding this subject.
Mostly a good idea but needs more restrictions. Gens or using any tool should disable it, and hit you with a hindered effect. This way you introduce a level of risk for a player who wants to abuse their invinc window by going for flashlight saves. Getting hit with hindered makes them a prime target again and is probably enough of a punishment for wasting their free anti-tunnel.
If you're far enough away healing or working a gen the hindered effect is basically meaningless, but you're putting yourself in a bad spot by disrespectfully healing/doing gens or going for flashlight saves in the killers face after an unhook.
Invincibility also needs a timer, otherwise survivors could hold the match hostage in a permanent form of invincibility.
If all of those were in place to prevent abuse then I'd be completely on board for it as a measure against tunneling.
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"fix" aka removal doesn't actually fix a problem just makes a different one
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As I said in another topic: just make this game survivor only and use AI killers. I can't really stand players cry for anything a killer do or don't, asking always for more buffs and basekit and nerfs. Playing killer make yourself in the position to be the bad guy, if you play well or not, if you "win" or "lose", whatever you do, you're always wrong, in any case.
Playing killer is so frustrating right now, it's honestly unbearable.
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Goodness that is a wall of nice copy and paste anyways the take a hit/exchange for your team mate tunnel is not mine or the other two faults, many times I intentionally block and give the killer a free hook but no they SLUG me down and go and chase the baby survivor who just brought the games in 10 mins and on their death hook, so that part of you or other team mates should try exchange/take the heat does not work, killers will tunnel out someone if they want to.
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It's easier to compile all responses into a single comment than making multiple comments, even if it is rather long.
Regardless though, if this slug fest is happening as often as you claim it is, to the point trading health states and hook states is useless for you, then why aren't you bringing Unbreakable? If it happens that often it would be instinctual to bring it, no? Bill is basekit, and you can easily prestige his perks with this Blood Moon event if you don't want to play him as a character every match.
If the killer is dead set on tunneling sure there's nothing you can do, ultimately, at the end of the day, and even the suggested "invincible until doing something" addition doesn't prevent that from happening.
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Umm I do not think you get what am saying. If I intentionally go down (trying to save the person being tunnel) and the killer leaves me thereI am talking being slugged trying to take away the killers aggression of tunneling out the baby survivor. They down you and just leave you cause they are dead set on taking out the survivor which is annoying and unfair for the new player.
Or even better yet when am in a 4 man swf and one of us is being tunneled to the ground and the other goes down on purpose but gets slug we already have 1 person doing gen and one person picking up and if needs be we go down again and rinse and repeat cause one of us always run expo so that unbreakable perk your asking why am not running it is not making sense to me.
I am talking about solo que tunneling/slugging the person down who willingly throw themselves at you to give you a free health state + hook. Tunneling is nothing when you have swf which is what I play 90% of the time and me and my 4 man swf are all decent loopers and we do not care about tunneling.
Tunneling only bugs me in solo que because there is no way to communicate to randoms cause dbd dont have coms and honestly am glad it dont. TCM indicates why coms will never be a good idea, people their can say some disgusting crazy things. But overall I say we both agree that if the killer is dead set on tunneling someone out it is what it is.
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With solo Q yeah tunneling is a nightmare but that ultimately kinda comes down to the biggest issue as to why it's hard to avoid most tunneling (low skill killers taking what they can get), which is that if you're doing solo Q the lack of basic communication makes it absolutely hellish and you will commonly die to bad killers bringing strong perks, simply because not working as a unit makes the game unwinnable.
Best case scenario you bring unbreakable, if you get downed you can self pick up and tell your team to just go help who's being chased, that way nobody needs to spend time on gens or picking you up.
But in solo Queue, Even if you brought Unbreakable and did your best to help who you unhooked, there's no way to let the other two players know you have unbreakable and that they should just go trade hits to help who's being chased. It causes so many issues in solo Queue, it sucks.
Even in a lobby with high prestige players it's possible to lose the game hard because you just cannot communicate any of the nuanced information (what perks you've seen in play, organizing to take hits, heal and reset, ect) that your team needs to play at their best.
But yeah ultimately tunneling cannot be completely stomped without huge sweeping changes to the game, but I do think the limited window of invincibility with the suggested restrictions could help. Only problem is that suddenly all the unhook/anti-tunnel perks become kinda useless and would need reworked.
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No problem just make it impossible to use flashlights or pallets while the status lasts
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Literally just what I said.
Completely utterly invincible, no capability of any serious action, maybe we could even make both survivors/killers completely invisible too during that period so no more "stalking killer" problem.
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The rescued survivor becomes literally invincible, and all he has to do is chase the killer's butt and wait for a fellow survivor to go down near the pallet. Since the Killer cannot carry the Survivor on his shoulders forever, the Survivors recommend slug and vow not to complain about it.
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No more pallet drop during invincibility too then, only thing they can do is touch the gen and become hittable or just wandering around aimlessly and uselessly.
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The party can also touch a nearby gen and then run with the background player. So, if implemented, it should be made so that the haste perk cannot be used for 5 seconds after invincibility is removed.
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Or alternatively, we could make it so survivors have to "repair" (but not actually gaining any charges) generators for like 15 seconds STRAIGHT, without any interruption.
If gen gets kicked or survivor stops repair during that period, survivor becomes invincible again and ALL 15 seconds timer will be reverted.
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I think you are underestimating the threat of reconnaissance drones, which are never shot down in the first place. You and others can use this in conjunction with the Empathy-type perk to let stealth-type killers be spotted and alert you to trappers and old hag traps without interference. You should have considered what I came up with in just two or three minutes.
In order to avoid being misused, we must not be able to obtain information unilaterally and remain invincible, but must take measures that do not involve mutual involvement at all. Someone may have said this, but it's much more sane to say, "Survivors who are taken unhook and rescued will respawn on the furthest hook from killer."
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Actually, I've thought about respawning few times too!
like not just "farthest" but actually random past certain distance, and doesn't even have to be limited to hooks.
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People always forget killer agency in these discussions. Killers sometimes have to get a survivor out of the game. People hate this fact. The more options you remove from killers, the simpler you make the role by giving them less choices and minimize the second-by-second decision making that makes the role engaging.
Moreover there are anti tunnel perks. When you refuse to take these because you want your Windows crutch, to heal quickly or do gens quickly, you've made the decision to be vulnerable off hook in exchange for some other aptitude. If you don't like it, trade Windows for DS(still a good perk) or something else.
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That's exactly the reason why it must be so radically though, as long as tunneling is possible all killers are inclined to do so.
Just make it impossible and balance it accordingly, otherwise tunneling will not die.
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As I have said repeatedly everywhere. It is true that there is no physical way to prevent tunneling, but it is quite possible to create a situation where the killer does not want to do it. The problem is that there are too few survivors who do it properly, or in other words, decent survivors. If everyone did this, the frequency of tunneling would at least be halved, and the chances of surviving being tunneled would double. It's a sad story.
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I agree
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so basically now survivors can take hits after being unhooked and dont get punished for it....wow what a great idea, Im sure survivors wont abuse this at all....
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Your right.....then reward killers for not tunneling instead of punishing them.
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You know, if survivors are so effortful to save just one person, I will tunnel more for it.
The thing is, the more effort team puts, the less pressure killer get while killing one survivor because those survivors are guaranteed to not doing gens.
So only way is to making it effortless and extremely strong, but at that point why not just make them invincible or respawn and make survivors free of perks, meanwhile killers gets much stronger due to statistical problems?
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Yes, so if the survivors do the necessary actions without misunderstanding the system and purpose of this game, 2k or 1k results will be mass produced.
The survivors reduce gen equal to the killer's lifespan, and the killer advances a hook state equal to the lifespan of the killer. If one survivor leaves early, the killer will have an advantage, but if he frees the other survivors to accelerate the completion of the gen, it will put the cart before the horse and the match will end at almost 1k. Therefore, the survivors are required to properly rescue with no their rescue consciousness go out of control and the killer patrols the gen and gets in the way of the survivors until this happens.A little skill and a great deal of knowledge come into play here, making it clear that this is a math tactics game rather than an individualistic hero game.
Therefore, it is known that tunneling is not a very strong tactic, because if the killer knows that he will do it, he will say, "I will die anyway, so I will buy you as much time as possible, so you guys should quickly complete your gen and leave.'' This is because simply doing so will almost guarantee the escape of the other survivors. If the killer is ready to tunneling, the survivors may try to pull the killer back with a pointless immediate rescue, or they may all just crouch by the hook without completing the gen in the first place, or go into hiding from killer. Rather, the other survivors need to show that they are nearing completion of their gen to attract the killer's attention.
If you're saying that survivors are so bad that they need a crutch, you might as well just say that hooked survivors disappear and respawn randomly after a minute, with a 20% debuff on completing gens during that time. Is it not? In this case, the killer will definitely not be able to dig a tunnel for one minute, so there is a point in using the hook, and since it can prevent the completion of the gen, he will actively target other survivors.
In any case, if you can become the killer's stalker while remaining invincible and share the killer's location information with other survivors through aura display even if you are not an SWF, that is too powerful even if one person is out of gen completion.
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Yes this exactly, whenever I play SWF and someone gets tunneled we always get a 3 or 2 man out because we juice the gens while he proxy camps hook and tunnels as soon as they're rescued from it. It just sucks for the player receiving.
In any case, in regards to OPs original idea, my suggested feedback was this.
- Using any tools or interacting with a part of the map that isn't a window loop should remove the invincibility. This means the player with the invincibility cannot drop pallets without losing it, cannot start using a flashlight without losing it, cannot heal or work gens without losing it.
- To incentivize not abusing this it should have a 20 second timer, and apply hindered + exhaustion for a short period of time after the time is up. This way survivors who use the 20 seconds to get away are so far away the downsides of hindered + exhaustion are meaningless, and the players who want to try and abuse it for a flashlight or pallet save are easy targets for wasting their anti-tunnel.
These kind of restrictions would punish people trying to abuse their invincibility, not allow them to hold matches hostage in a state of constant invincibility, not give their team endless info on the killer, and prevent people from going for a flashlight save and then popping into a sprint burst right after.
Only downside to all of this is that all anti-tunnel perks and unhook related perks would need to be reworked, except for ones like breaking the hook when you get unhooked.
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Yes because after not finding anyone else, ignoring the unhook where its the only place you know 100% 2 people are is the best play. Great macro gameplay
Btw, even if they removed the unhook notif, a killer that isnt finding anyone would just... keep an eye on the hud to see when they go for the unhook. Run OTR instead
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I aint running no garbage otr because I do not care about being tunneled and neither does my swf. I am talking about it being annoying in solo que when killers wanna be tunneling out baby survivors. Also ofc tunnelers(are just usually bad killers anyways) Good killers do not need to tunnel or come back to every unhook to 3/4k . Also yes my point was hook notification being removed means the killer need to watch their hud more carefully and I doubt killers pay much attention their huds much.
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So… what would you suggest change affect then? Killers who want to tunnel will just keep an eye on their HUD. If no notification were to be added but tunneling wasn't affected, would you then complain about how the HUD gives the killer too much information and want to remove it?
Going back to the hook when you can't find anyone is, in a lot of cases, the most efficient play. It's where 50% of the survivors are, and you can immediately go back to applying pressure rather than looking for the other 2 survivors who have the upper hand since they have time to hide from you. That's how the game is right now, and if you don't want to use OTR or even the upcoming buffed DS, that's on you.
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Sorry you cant seem to understand or read so I wont waste my time on you but will say it one final time then ignore you after. I said remove hooked notifications, hook notifications= is not a hud, its is a sound killers hear so what part of I said killers would have to use their hud more wisely did you not see?
I know how to loop and so does my swf so please come tunnel me. Also stop ignoring the fact I said SOLO que tunneling is a problem. Please come tunnel me I welcome chases over sitting on boring gens anytime, its what make it fun for me.
Also since its so funny typical killer mains oh just run this perk but let a survivor dear say run a perk like fear monger to counter exhaust perks yall get so angry and say I should not be having to run x perk to counter that perk. P
ot calling kettle black much and also at the very same time calling please nerf the perk example survivor complain=am tired of lethal killer = run distortion. Survivor run distortion killer = nerf distortion its too op!!!! .🤔
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While I get where you're coming from, survivors would weaponize it by just following the killer and reporting to their swf where the killer is at any given moment. It would entirely destroy stealth killers, as well. Imagine being ghost face and being completely unable to do anything about a survivor just following you everywhere while being invincible. All other survivors would be able to hide or run away away the moment the killer would head in their direction.
I still stand by my idea that after getting unhooked if there are still gens to complete, the survivor gets enveloped in a burn away or smoke effect and becomes invisible without any visual or audio clues and loses all collision with all players for 10 seconds. They also wouldn't be able to interact with anything during this time. This gives them ample time to get away and reset.
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If I travel across the map and everyone is immersed and my aura reading perks do nothing because distortion I will come for the unhooker.
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If any of the killers is able to come from the other side of any map and still get you, your problem is clear and the solution simple: Stop healing under the hook unless the killer is in chase.
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Always the because survivors using distortion excuse, did you know before distortion became a popular pick killers always tunnel or go to every unhook,? Yall really need to stop making distortion excuse and just admit that you just simply like to tunnel and its ok its part of the game do what makes you win.
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First of all I dont heal under hooks because am not slow and I hate when people wanna do that(Solo que) , Second of all its a solo que problem and Third of all am tired of saying this for about the 50th time I do not care about tunneling because I know how to loop and I swf and my swf can loop. I am so sick of tired and saying its not ME its bothers, it bothers me when its a baby person being tunneled that cant loop. Also even if said solo que moves from the hook the killer will follow their blood trail and down em again knowing their a new player.
Tunneling in solo que is what am talking about which is barely why I ever play solo que, I do not care if am being tunnel in solo que am talking about the baby survivor team mate who just brought dbd 10mins and is being tunneled out by the killer. Goodness gracious I swear some of you really can be ignorant and just either not reading or just have nothing to do but to annoy someone. Did you clearly not see me saying this to another person above already?
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I literally say I go after unhooker where is the tunnel? You see what you want to see.
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