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Can we please do something about this?
I am so sick and tired of seeing this everytime there is a SM in a game. With out fail at least 2 people will DC. Its insane to me that people are allowed to just DC if they are in a match they deem unfun with almost no repercussions. Either DC penalties need to be far more punishing or SM needs to be change or kill switched.
Admittedly I have little problem facing her, it truthfully isn't all that bad if other teammates just stick it out. Is it bad I want to see a killer deleted or completely changed not because of the killer themselves, but because of the people I get matched with? How is this ok? Why am I subjected to this? Please either get rid of the leave match button and the abiliy to hook suicide or please just do something about SM.
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I mean, she has 70% Killrate because of this. She needs changes, she is just not ok. And I am also very sure that some people just queue up at her for those games, because the majority of Skull Merchants I see are anon. Way more than I see usually.
And well, she was almost playing PvE with that…Nice.
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Ngl…
I have Pure hatred to go against a SM so much i just go next..
Not worth the hassle, she makes Knight look fun to verse.
######### even she gives Alien a Better time for me than herself,
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To be fair theres also this case even on killers that arent that bad. I loaded in as billy on coldwind. 2 people dc'd apon hearing my saw even. Just also a case of sometimes the punishment being to lax. I think games like overwatch have 5 to 10 minutes as starting points even.
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Im so sick of people just DCing because they see a killer they dont like. I think its fair to say we all have those killers we dont like going up against but you dont DC against. Simply put if you can handle facing a specific killer then just well….dont que up in the first place. I dont want to be rude towards people but you are actively hurting the match for everyone else.
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to be honest, i don´t think bhvr can save her, no matter how fun her power can be, people just dislike her, people will find a reason to DC against her, because she´s a regular woman with an ´´ugly´´ mask or something like that, or because she kicked a single gen or because etc etc etc… you know what i mean?
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This will ALWAYS be how it is with SM, unless they gut her and rework her. She is a gg “oops i tried my 4%” killer for me too.
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Yeah, whatever. That you see a DC on rare occasions on other Killers does not change the fact that Skull Merchant was a failed concept from the beginning and continues to be a failed concept.
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They won’t do anything worthwhile since they’d end up losing players that would potentially purchase cosmetics/chapters.
I’d suggest they add in an algorithm that tracks serial DC’ers/suiciders at 1st hook and just start having matchmaking group them up in their own pool but I think that’s more work than they want.
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I am sorry but all I can do is just laugh when I see these dc sm posts. 🤣 and its not at you op its just in general. Only thing I can suggest is maybe try get a group of friends who may be tolerant to play vs sm, and honestly even swfs do not want to deal with SM. Maybe once twins rework is finished up, maybe just maybe a future rework for the third time will fix her. They really need to put this on their hot list of changes, I know they tried but it sadly did not work out.
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If the 70% kill rate is because survivors DC, how is that the killer? 3v1, 2v1 will always be in the killer's favor. If survivors actually try that number should go down.
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Thats why they need to make DC penalties for more harsh. I hate to say rework her because honestly she isnt that strong. The only thing I find a little annoying is that she gets both haste and gives the hindered status effect but overall I dont think she needs to be nerfed because of her being strong.
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Or try the 3rd option: Make the game free to leave under certain circumstances.
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just give her the trapper's toolkit, make her the female trapper, and call it a day
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Of course it is the Killer. If Survivors suicide that much it is a good indicator that something is wrong with the Killer. You dotn get those high numbers of DCs and Suicides against any other Killer.
And it is obviously not strength, since you wont even get those numbers against Nurse.
Why not try to solve the problems which make people DC or suicide on Hook? Nobody ever was able to answer this, lol.
And yes, I know that some people will DC or suicide when they found first or for whatever reason. But reducing the unfun things which make the majority DC would be the right step.
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Why not try to solve the problems which make people DC or suicide on Hook?
It's very easy to make survivors DC… just saying
It's not something you can fix. Unless you want to give them free win every game…
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Fix survivors being immature and uninformed? How?
Most of the reasons for DCs boil down to "the match isn't going my way" and/or "I don't like/understand this killer".
Like people dislike SM just because of her general existence and a lot of them don't even know she got changed or how she works. There are those that still complain that her drones camp gens for her and they will get scanned on the gen. They got a first impression that "SM bad" then there's an echo chamber of "SM bad" that just keeps it going regardless of what they do.
There's a not insignificant number that say part of the reason is because "her lore is bad and I don't like her design". It's wild.
"Fixing it" would be essentially "replace this entire killer, concept, power, design, and lore".
Past that the only way to "fix" general DCs is to make survivor punishment proof and always in a superior position to the killer. 1v1 and otherwise.
"Unfun" in this community basically means one or more of the following:
- "I'm losing"
- "The other side is not playing the exact way I want them to"
- "I don't understand this killer and I refuse to learn how they work"
- "This killer needs more than just looping to counter"
- "I refuse to learn how to counter this killer correctly"
- "They're not playing someone from the survivor approved killer list".
Just make the killer a bot at that point and rebrand the game to PvE. It's not realistic to "fix it" and keep killer playable for non-masochists.
It's not just "some" people, it's "many if not most". At least if we're talking about players who actively engage in DC behavior frequently.
Post edited by MrPenguin on9 -
Players who run away under the excuse of being boring to hide their weaknesses are the worst. Because of them, damage is being caused to those who should not be responsible in the first place. If people who can't follow the rules are allowed to boast by saying that it's wrong for others to not make them follow the rules, then there is no justice in that community.
It just makes the DC penalty heavier. Even if there are complications as a result, it is best to have the bhvr deal with it individually.
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I play the game out but honestly I half-ass it. I have no energy when I see it's her. If I escape it's a win but if I die it's also a win. It's been awhile since I've had a team mate DC against her though, wonder if you were playing with a 3man swf who'd had enough SM for the day
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You still have teammates, yeah they may not be the greatest, or even human but they are still there. If you enjoy it so much just play it out. If their dc penalty is barely anything then it means they don't dc at all except for SM which is kinda meh
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Don’t think it was three but two defiantly were together.
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I will never condone DCing or nexting against any killer, but with SM I get why it happens so much. The reaction is a lot of leftovers, her bad reputation from prior versions of her yes, but I get it.
The community has rejected SM, plain and simple. And they are entering in their protest quite unmistakenly.
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SM is overhated, she isn't much different from your avarage M2 on loop killer and people just need to grow up and stop act like SM is SS+ tier Killer.
She isn't even a popular killer.
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Meh. Sooner or later she will be dealt with again. And get the sadako treatment. 3rd time is the charm.
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There is a large problem in that she's both incredibly anti-fun, and the way she does that also drags games out. I play video games for fun, and when I load into a match that is going to be 1.5-2x longer than a usual one, and thoroughly unenjoyable, it makes me question why I'm there in the first place. I'm signing up to play a game with other people, not for 20 minutes of wishing I was doing something else, so when someone else opts out of playing it, I'm happy.
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Both answers dont answer the question why you would not aim to remove things which make people DC. One with less words, one with more words (but I give bonus points for including the Lore of a Character, this will totally make people DC /s).
The fact: You cannot remove DCs or Hook Suicides completely. Thats it. Even if that Dwight DCs because he was the first getting downed, this does not mean that it is pointless to make Skull Merchant enjoyable against it (which does not mean to make her weak, I know that my Killer Mains on this Forum will say that fun = weak, but this is just not true).
You will always have people who DC for the most stupid reasons. Whether it is being downed first, being on the disliked Map, a Gen done too fast, not liking the Killer, missing your first Feral Frenzy Hit as Legion… Quite a bunch of reasons, all of them quite dumb.
However, this should not be the excuse to not change things which are unfun to go against.
Many people DC/suicide against Skull Merchant, change her.
"But people also DC against Wraith."… Yeah, whatever. No point in saying that.
To repeat it: You cannot fix 100% of DCs or Hook Suicides. But you can fix some of them.
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Controversial take - I actually prefer SM over Knight but that isn't saying much as they are my two least fav killers to verse.
OP: the reality is you can implement all kinds of measures but nothing will make a person play a match they don't want to. I don't DC but I will play with utter disregard for my self preservation… so its like 'oh no, I got hooked how terrible' and maybe I will get points out of it and farm my team mates who are welcome to farm me.
Ideal scenario is they tunnel too lol
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I stopped playing her due this. She is one of the few killers who I can play really chill and still get decent results also I love her aestetically. But the amount of DCs caused by the herd mentality is out of hand. Also, as I said recently in other thread, when playing survivor I prefer facing her than hag or blight. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
A solution for this would be raising the first DC penatly to 5 minutes as it was at first, I guess BHVR reduced the time for the fist DC for being a bit more condescending with the people who DC unintentionally due connection problems sometimes. So if they put the 5 minutes for the first DC back then the people with ocasional connection problem would be damned again.
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Fix her by doing what exactly? Every answer I've seen so far is just "delete her", "replace her power completely from scratch" or vague "make her fun".
Other than that its just nonconstructive complaining that she's even allowed to continue existing.
She's not really doing anything special anymore. What is even the problem with her specifically at this point?
It just seems like a bandwagon hate train from her first iterations that players refuse to move on from.
Post edited by MrPenguin on2 -
Games with at least on DC do not count in the statistics. The 70% is with games were survs give up on hook. The outcome is the same, sure.
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DC penalties don't work for the most part though, it just encourages giving up first hook where the survivors left would have a bot instead if the player just outright DC'd.
I definitely do not enjoy SM but I will just play like an absolute idiot with zero self preservation attempted… that is my way of getting out of the match fast. I would rather just DC and leave them with a bot but I cant.
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Why would you stop playing a character you like because of how the other team reacts?
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I just wish she had better animations/polish so it didn't look like I was playing against a NSFW mod
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No one should be forced to stay in a match they aren't enjoying. BHVR is to blame, nobody else.
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Because I don't like to play against bots.
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What do you want them to do?
Can't raise the DC penalty, it's already a ######### mechanic but raising it more promotes toxicity.
Apparently we can't change SM since the cult defends her and she's fine. Some reasonable people understand she needs changes though, so it's not everyone who plays her.
I feel like everyone knows her reputation at this point. Hate to say it, but if you queue as her, you kinda have to accept that. Nobody likes to play against her.
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A survivor killing themselves on hook is the equivalent to a 5 year old throwing a tantrum in a grocery store. I will neither acknowledge or reward such behaviors.
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However, this should not be the excuse to not change things which are unfun to go against.
Sure, I am fine with changes, but I don't believe unfun is a reason for strict nerfs, which many players would want.
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I can't understand the hate towards SM. She's not even a good killer maybe low B or high C tier. She does a lot of things, but she's not that great at any of them. Stealth? Ghost face, Pig and some extent Wraith and Spirit are far better. Hindered and Haste? Clown laughs at her since she can't really control when she gets hers. Broken? There's perks, add-ons and other killers that can do it better. Zoning? Her drones do nothing to you unless your in a chase unlike Trapper or Hag that can down you.
I enjoy playing her from time to time and the survivors that stick it out and play the match do well most of the time. Real problem I'm seeing just this mindless herd mentality that players have that refuse to to play against her.
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I don’t disagree with the fact that SM should be changed I think she has too many things in her kit. She reminds me a lot of post rework Freddy before the nerfs that came his way which ultimately have me a little nervous if they go the rout of just flat out nerfing her. That being said I personally don’t think DCing against her is justified or ever really(life gets in the way sometimes and if cheaters are holding the game hostage come to mind).
As for solution just do what some other games and put you in a leavers que ifyou pressed the leave match button. Put you with other players that DC often and once some condition is met then you can be out of leavers Q. Specifically this needs to be if someone uses the leave match button because there are times when you get DCed against your own will.
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If you DC or let yourself go on hook against SM, your opinion on SM doesn't matter, its that simple. You made the choice to load DbD, you made the choice to choose Survivor, you chose to search for a match, you chose to ready up. Each of these steps you operate under the possibility of going against a SM. To quit against her just because you get her is just being entitled, which is par the course for most of this community
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I hate to break it to you but you’re not gonna “punish” players into staying in matches that they don’t want to be in. This has never worked. You can up the DC penalty and people will continue to DC, eat the penalty and go play another game until their penalty is up. Other option is they will just continue to give up on hook, which they devs have already said they’re not gonna punish because they don’t want to risk punishing honest attempts at the 4 percent or internet lag issues.
It’s funny to me that people would rather attempt to punish people and/or force them to stay in a match that they aren’t enjoying rather than address the root of the issue which is the killer. I despise playing again legion, onryo and Pinhead but I’ll still stay in those matches because they’re rarely ever as consistently bad as going against a SM which are always horrible for me.
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So then people will kill themselves on hook instead.
Then You'll say, well we should remove that. Okay, then they let themselves go down.
You can't force people to play against something they find so unpleasant they'd rather not play at all.
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Maybe it’s just me but for me giving up is just something I find fundamentally wrong. I also used to play MOBAs a lot LOL and HOTS so my opinions of people leaving will differ then those who play this game. When every member of your team counts when you lose them it sucks a lot. If there is something in a game you hate so much that you are willing to leave and screw the rest of your teammates over then don’t play. After last night and this happening twice I am just going to take a bit of a break from solo q.
Truthfully I don’t have a solution or any suggestions on hooks suicideds because it wasn’t something I was considering and complicated matters even worse.Should SM change? Absolutly. Should people just DC when she is in a game? Personally I don’t think they should. I think it’s fair to say we have too very distinct opinions on the matter and truthfully I always appreciate hearing from those people because it always makes me reevaluate my thoughts. I also dont want to dismiss other people opinions of the matter as well(admittedly I’m not too good with this). However in this case as of right now my feelings on this matter are not changing. They might tough only time will tell, most certainly wouldn’t be the first time.
Post edited by Wiggles_Diggles on0 -
She awful to play against. imo Bottom 3 killers in the game to play against still for me even after her rework and thats assuming nobody leaves and ill still try but the fact, people will just makes her the worst of the 3 so when one person goes im just going to follow because there is no point is sticking around in a 3v1 on 5 gens against any killer.
She either needs to be made F-tier so people stick around, have a full rework to her power, or the community needs to grow a pair (but I don't think they will).
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I think it’s hilarious how some people legit THINK that the DC’s are caused due to the “SM Hate Train.” They are not. She is flawed, desperately needs changes and majority of the community are extremely repulsed to go against her.
yeah they can fix majority of players dcing against her by giving her a rework. Her power design is a snoozefest for survivors.
95% of the time survivors know how the game will pan out in a SM’s mind.
1. Locate the most brutal 3 gen.2. Don’t go to far when chasing survivors, hope to get a hit or even a down
3. Maintain the 3 gen with your free undetectable and 10 other status effects
4. Return to the 3 gens, don’t leave the 3 gens
5. Rinse repeat
Honestly makes so much sense to just give up imo.
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Killers lobby shop and DC the instant they see a map offering they don't like. Survivors have to wait until a match actually loads up to cherry pick their games. DCing is almost never okay, but why should Survs be subjected to matches they don't want to play and punished for it when the Killers are getting away with it for no punishment? DCing should always be punished regardless of the reason, but it's true Survs are the ones getting screwed by it way more, whether by a teammate or themselves.
It sucks a killer as polarizing as SM is causing this, but there really is nothing anyone can do to force people to stay in matches they simply dont want to waste their time participating in. The only true fix is to once again rework her but that must be a hard decision for the devs, as they know she badly needs it but if the rework again doesn't satisfy they just wasted more time and resources for nothing and just have more players unhappy and leaving matches or DBD altogether. It also a challenge to rework and not completely take away the identity of the character, but in SM's case that may just be what needs to happen.
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I'll be honest here… I really don't understand what's so awful about current SM. Been seeing a lot of them during this event, and people like this who automatically give up are the only consistent problem I have with her. Yeah, sometimes I've gotten a few, uh, 'interesting' people playing her, but beyond that… she's not that bad anymore, is she? Am I wrong? Out of the last six killers BHVR has cooked up, she's not even in the bottom half for me.
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Going to be honest I despise playing against this killer. I won’t DC but I’ll usually throw on a YouTube video or some music and just go with the flow.
The question I’m yet to see answered is why people actually find this killer fun to play as. Chase survivor to a loop, drop drone. Survivor either gets injured by said drone or runs away from loop. Is this the experience people want?
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Good luck forcing people to play a game they don't want to play. I get 1 free DC a day. I'll DC against SM if I want. I'll DC against slugging Nurse if I want. I'll DC against Clown if I want. My group and I just don't find them fun to play against. 🤷♂️
In reality, what are they going to do?
Q) Make DC penalties worse? A) People will just kill themselves on first hook.
Q) Make killing yourself on 1st hook somehow punishable? A) Just go AFK until the game ends. The killer will get sick of birds eventually.
Q) Remove the Disconnect button? A) Oh nooo, my internet/game is crashing. *force close/unplug internet*
Even if you somehow find a way to punish people to some extreme, they won't play an unfun match. They will find a way to circumvent it, or they will just stop playing altogether.
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We'll pass around the collection plate, to fund this worthy endeavour!
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