Why Otz says buffing DS is bad

I understand what you saying and respect it but I still have issues with DS being behind a paywall, esp when you have ALOT of useless free perks on both sides. Otz made a good point that you could have at least moved the effect of DS on a perk like This is Happening, a perk that have little to no use for new or old players right now.

I know you all don't see DS as a fix to tunneling but a lot of your player base does. They will use DS as way to fix tunneling and will use it every single match no matter what. Putting it back to 5s only brings back those days where all we see from survivors will be the same 4 perks every single match. We all know that Fog whispers and others have talked to you and shared ideas about how to make the anti-tunneling experience better for everyone not just for some players. I don't understand why the devs didn't take this chance to address this. Once again all you doing is telling players esp newer players that if you don't want to be tunnel you have to spend $5 to get one single perk to help combat it. As I said no matter what you say, ppl in your player base will always see DS as a band-aid/short-term fix to tunneling.

I end this with that I am happy you shared the reasoning for not disabling killer powers. That does make some sense and I respect that that much. I just think there were better opinions the devs could have done to help against tunneling(which once again is the reason ppl run DS in the first place) for everyone instead of just putting DS(a $5 perk) back to 5s.

Yes but this wouldn’t be as punishing as completely disabling your power and would only affect a few killers rather than everyone.

Her recharge time is only 3 seconds per token, you would be able to use your power again after 3 seconds and both blinks after 6. Nurse would still have an easier time catching up then the other killers but the distance gained would be much closer to the other killers than it is now.
But that’s assuming you don’t recover until after the stun though. If you recover during it then there is pretty much no penalty because you’ll be 1 second off having all tokens after the stun.

I mean, as already said it wont solve tunnelling but it will at least be start towards making tunnelling less appealing and to punish it far more than current DS does.

Hopefully BHVR continue to look at tunnelling and mechanics to make it nonviable to discourage those currently getting easy wins from tunnelling

I already pre-empted bodyblocks by removing collision (during anti-tunnel effects being active). So that is already (mostly) solved. (found in parenthetical at end of first paragraph)

Understandable with sunk-cost fallacy and commit on chase. Arguably DS should give speed or stealth post stab, that way you can Background Player level sprint away, or Shadow Step+Iron Will hide in a corner safely. I think it is better to take a DS and plan on using that to your advantage later, or simply not tunnel at all to bypass those perks, but not everyone thinks ahead as Killer. I autopilot as Bubba to be fair and chase the first I see.

110 Killers (and 115) still have to make the active choice to tunnel and risk the consequences. Covered under the 'self-victimization' portion (found in 2nd paragraph). Also 110 isn't as debilitating in terms of macro as people would have you believe. Over 25s (or tunneling at 5 gens under the proposal), 4.6 gets you 115m, and 4.4 gets you 110m. Over 5s (or tunneling at 1 gen under the proposal), 4.6 gets you 23m and 4.4 gets you 22m. That basically means 1m per gen remaining of lost distance from 110 to 115.

I do think at the minimum every Killer that can move/attack faster than 8m/s should be impacted (Blight/Oni/Wesker/Demo/Billy/Huntress/Slinger/etc.), but keeping it universal as 'Killer Incapacitation' fits better imo. It can be the Entity removing the powers it gave to the Killers, being more thematically appropriate, and universally applied keeps it fair across the board.

The only aspect that could be unfair is abusing the game's poor autoaim with the bodyblock point, and trying to run in another Survivor's model to disable the Killer's power. I don't know how autoaim could be fixed, or if it can be, so this is the largest flaw I see. At the same time, if I am running 2 Survivors for the OTR duration, I am getting 33% effective gen slowdown as the Survivor could have been pumping gens instead. I'll take a free 10% boosted Pentimento any day.

I personally think if the Survivor is within 2-5m of another Survivor it would be best to remove attack collision as well, but that might not be an option (programmatically). I seriously don't think the Killer will have no clue that the Survivor is trailing them chasing the rescuer, especially since the Killer is faster by default, let alone Bloodlust as well.

I only used the OTR 80s as an exaggeration, because it should take no longer than 20-30s to get a hit, and another 5-25s powerless to get the down (either tunneled or on the rescuer). It is fine as long as matchmaking isn't sending 800MMR baby Killers against 2000MMR clock SWFs, but even then that would be a matchmaking problem, not a problem with this proposal.

He said resets the power if you watched the video which is 6-10 seconds at most.

The issue with this is that it would punish those who don't have DS even more. Because the killer would 100% know you don't have DS so will always just pick up and hook again in all cases

It sounds legit asking at this point: Is "tunneling" something the team aims at solving or something that is considered as part of the intended game design? Because even if DS doesn't "solve tunneling" it's gonna be the strongest answer to it (in my opinion: it already is), so it's gonna be played a lot, even more than now. Of course for "solving tunneling" it implies something that makes viable for killers to win consistently at higher levels without needing to go for these strategies.

Killer will think I should not tunneled.

Dear bHVR it may not be as unsustainable as you think, Sure for one perk it might be.
But you can also use the power disable for many more things, like you used it in the Special Rifts in the Halloween event.
Those rifts will return surely in some form again? It may come in handy and to that it does not really matter that other weaker Killers could maybe gain some advantage vs. one perk:

• Pre-Placed Skull merchant Drones.
• Pre-Placed Trapper Traps
• Pre-Placed Freddy Pools
• Pre-Placed Knight Guard.
• Hag with Scarred Hand or Waterlogged Shoe.
• Pre-thrown Clown Gas Bottle.
• Nemesis Zombies.
• Pinhead's Chain Hunt.
• Pig's Pigs Reverse Bear Trap Countdown.

None of these are as big an issue as Blight or Nurse. In fact I think most players would be glad that DS would work better again the worst offenders, instead of making it worse for everybody while mildly affecting those Killers that it really matters for.

I hope bHVR takes this into reconsideration.

My suggestion is 5 sec stun + 15 seconds power buttons disable upon activating DS.

That's fine. BHVR made it clear that it's perfectly fine for survivors to run perks that hurt the rest of the the team, like when survivors excessively hide with Distortion, or when survivors equip Sole Survivor + Wake Up, and just wait for the rest of their team to die.

Survivors that are honestly using DS for anti-tunnel would get more value out of DS, if the killer knew they had an active DS. That is more important than giving every survivor DS value, even if they aren't running that perk.

I've suspected for a while he was saying whatever would bump-up his followers. He says to many things that make no sense.

I'm glad the devs are not listening to streamers. Listening this one and a few other's opinion would ruin the game.

also this feels like a massive over complication of something that really isnt that complex.

currently, the problem with ds is that its super unfair in its value between the killers it is used on, nurse doesnt care, the weak killers do.

even if the solution of making it disable powers has some killers still keeping the passive component of their powers active, ie traps, chain hunts and pig boxes, isnt this still a far better solution than triggering ds and then having nurse blink onto you immediately after her stun time is over?

i also really dont see how this can limit new killers, all it has to do is make them an m1 killer for a short duration, it cant be that bad

honestly if it was 10 seconds, i really wouldnt care, playing a weak killer? bam dont care, basically no difference.

Strong killer? ok now im far weaker, and it was well earny by survivors, and i was punished for trying to play sweaty as a strong killer.

It's the same problem as all strong survivor perks. A 5 second DS is good for us solo survivors and we need it while SWF teams have each other also and don't need that buff it's just going to make it even harder to kill one survivor in these games.

i Think the problem about tunnel is the early game tunnel, so, i think DS should work with how gens are done. For example

DS time stun: 5 seconds if u will use with 5 gens up
DS time stun: 4 seconds if u will use with 4 gens up
DS time stun: 3 seconds if u wil use with 3, 2 or 1 gen up
DS deactivate when gates are powered.

Or, reduce the time DS is active after unhook and put the stun time at 4sec

DS active: 60 seconds, 5 seconds if u will use with 5 gens up

DS active: 50 seconds, 4 seconds if u will use with 5 gens up

DS Active: 40 seconds, 3 gens

DS Active: 30 seconds, 2 and 1 gen

DS deactivate when gates are powered

Isn't it just a matter of marking killers with high mobility have a tag?

I mean it's why I've always felt like high mobility needs to go or be nerfed severely, maps are getting smaller and smaller to make lower tier killers lives easier, but in turn are making high mobility even more obnoxious and impossible to escape from, as it stands right now a lot of maps a nurse can teleport anywhere so long as she is in the centre… thats just crazy lol

General consensus seems to suggest that when the tunnelling occurs matters. So tunnelling at 5 gens or when dominating the game is frowned upon, while tunnelling in late game or when the killer is struggling is considered fine. So (my assumption of course) I imagine that the devs probably can't really address tunneling when it frustrates people the most (early game) without it affecting tunnelling in general . Or if they can they might be concerned about the complexities it involves or issues it might cause later down the line.

This is actually why I've always preferred the devs to address certain playstyles with perks (even if that is just a "bandaid"). I know I'm in the minority among survivor mains though, most would rather basekit changes. I don't think these sorts of playstyles need to be eliminated, there just should be some risk attached that the person you decided to tunnel may come equipped to deal with it. Just my 2 cents anyway.

In the PTB whenever it is now, I would have liked DS to be kept at 3 seconds but the killer gets an affliction, similar to the orange glyph killer challenges. I did one of those at the weekend and breaking generators and dropped pallets was painfully slow, like double the time. Something like that lasting for a period of time would have been better in my opinion.