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Background Player + Flashbang counter?
Comments
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Lol 1700 hours on the game and you're really trying to explain basic terms to me just because you're not happy with the response?
Bodyblocking the killer after you are unhooked is a tactic just like camping, tunnelling and slugging.
You want killers to be buffed yet you don't want survivors to be buffed in retrospect. Flashbangs getting a nerf also means that survivors who use them as a whole get a nerf, it's not a small nerf either as prior to this nerf flashbangs had a ridiculously small hitbox and the timing was severely unforgiving. Reverting the clipping of the killer swinging and hitting the person who unhooked and not the person being unhooked was never an issue. Nor was it an issue for tunnelling, in some aspects yes, but if a killer decides to unhook nothing changes this, even this silly no clip issue.
Also, to make this clear, IDK how low your MMR rating is but in mine the killer comes back at least 85% of the time, so there is virtually no such thing as "safe unhooking" for me.
Having X seconds of invincibility (something I've also suggested in the past on one of my previous anti tunnelling posts (around feb - march last year when tunnelling was in a serious prime time) would only be viable if it was more than 30 seconds, 10s is way too damn short, 10s is laughable as a killer, that doesn't deter anything, and if the other 2 coming into play also means the survivor has to equip them then it forces 2 perk slots to be used up, if they are given out for free then it also means killers are forced to use up X amount of perk slots also to help counter it. Neither of them work.
"A camping killer can always get an exchange against a single rescuer. That was my point." - this statement is also false, i've unhooked without being touched and being the only person coming to get the rescue against a camping killer and both escaped before.
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There's literally zero counter play unless you bring what's been accepted as a bad\crutch perk (lightborn). With flashbang, it's a guaranteed save. With a flashlight, it's a guaranteed save unless the survivor who went down didn't bother to avoid walls. With pallets, it's a guaranteed save. I'm not quite sure how this even got passed the brainstorming sessions at the dev table.
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Yeah... I think this conversation is over. You don't even read my responses, do you?
What I suggested is a huge buff for survivors that would limit the effectiveness of tunneling. If you don't understand how complete immunity to killer powers and attacks is a buff to survivors, then I can only assume you don't know how the game works. My suggestion also removes the unintended side effect of bodyblocking with BT to force the killer to tunnel. But this would not come as a buff to killers. More like giving them the option to do exactly what survivors usually want instead of forcing them to play in a specific way and then punishing them for it.
I suggest fixing a bug that removes counterplay from flashbangs. Outside of these 2 scenarios they would be completely the same. Most survivors wouldn't even notice any difference at all because they already use flashbangs as intended.
A killer coming back to the hook still allows you to safely unhook. They do not get to teleport back to the hook instantly (other than Hag). So in the time it takes them to come back you can already go somewhere else (which is what I usually do) to maintain distance and make it harder for the killer to find you again. If they don't come back after that, you can still heal. Nobody forces you to stay right there at the hook.
[...] this statement is also false, i've unhooked without being touched and being the only person coming to get the rescue against a camping killer and both escaped before.
Do you need me to show you how that works? Or is it enough, if I explain, that standing right next to the hook, hitting the unhooker as the animation begins and then hitting them again when the animation ends guarantees that you go down? This takes no skill and it's something you can do on every killer without the need for any specific perks or addons.
If you end up not getting hit, then my guess is that the killer wasn't actually camping. Camping means staying in one area to proctect something. But in that case, they didn't protect the hook.
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Bodyblocking off the hook is a tactic. It's a tactic that should go the way of the MFT perk outside of endgame. @Xernoton is correct; I'd much rather have his suggestion so that tunneling is much harder to do.
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Lightborn. Works on Flashbang, Blast Mine, and Flashlights. You can fake being blinded at pallets to get the drop on people
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Insert killer thread 9999 of why a certain Survivor perk needs a nerf.
Insert that all SWF's make it really annoying to deal with, which….is probably what the purpose of the perk is because it's meant to give survivors a speed boost when one of their allies is IN DANGER
Forgets that Solo Queue is there…
I hate to break it to you but the entire point of Background Player is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, so allow me to offer you some advice. Use perks like Fearmonger or Mind-Breaker and you'll have less people sprinting across map for the flashbang save.
Alternatively, if you think there's a survivor around you; don't immediately go for the hook, literally look around. I assure you, that downed player will NOT be getting very far.
That or just run light borne on your kit 24/7; and then center whatever build you're trying to run AROUND it, so it works for you and not against it. It's possible to do, you just need to take the steps to do it.0 -
You can't fake being blinded. It literally notifies the survivors if a blind works.
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yes you can equip lightborn every match. The same way if survivors want to counter ultimate weapon we would need to equip calm spirit every match just in the off chance that a killer brings UW. That’s the sacrifice you make if you want to counter a specific playstyle. That’s what perks are for. This game does not guarantee that you will always be able to counter every single perk that the other side brings, and asking for changes or even perk nerfs/buffs so that you CAN counter every single playstyle is silly and frankly unrealistic and unreasonable. There are hundreds of perks in this game.
No one is going to be able to counter every situation in every match when you only have 4 perk slots, (and you shouldn’t be able to) and that goes for killer and survivor. You roll the dice when you choose your build and you win some and lose some. That’s how it goes.4 -
How is it unrealistic to equip the perk that perfectly counters what you're complaining about…?
If the Flashbang/Background Player combo is such a huge issue, why do you not slap on Lightborn and not have to worry about it?
If it's a big issue that happens to you all the time, counter it. If it's not a big enough issue to dedicate a counter to, what are you actually complaining about?
"You can't realistically equip Lightborn every game just in case they bring 1 perk"
Sounds like you want to have zero counters to your own playstyle without having to change it in the slightest. Doesn't seem like it's happening super often to you, either. Just now and then, someone gets a flashbang save and you're salty about it.
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why can survivor go into killers? and does the dev know and going to fix this mess?
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The issue this opens up is that it opens up a free hit regardless of which one is done, bodyblocking at least allows you to choose who wants to be hit.
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What about cross map pallet saves from the insane speed boost and duration of Background Player? As far as I know there’s no perk called “Palletborn” to counter those. There’s plenty of clips online showcasing this
As for Ultimate Weapon, the devs acknowledged this was a problem and are changing the screaming effect to aura reading next patch, which can in fact be countered by a regular gameplay mechanic rather than a perk, and this temporarily hiding in a locker
The whole “equip x strong perk to counter y strong perk” isn’t the best way to handle to health and longevity of the game and eventually leads to power creep where it’s the same perks run every game. A much healthier alternative is to address the overly strong perks with little to no natural in game counters to encourage more varied play styles
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To all the people saying “just bring Lightborn”
I want to make this clear, Flashbang and flashlights aren’t the issue here, Background Player is
By themselves flashlight/ Flashbang saves are perfectly fine and good for the game, it’s Background Player that makes them an issue and removes all skill and planning and makes every pick up a “free” save
Again, Background Player is the issue
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people getting bgp+fb once during a match ; annoying, sure. - But after that you know and should adapt. You don't "counter" bgp+fb ; you don't get yourself into a position where you have to "counter" it in the first place.
How? Well, you know an fb has been deployed. That player is out of fb for a while and you can pick up whoever you downed for a while (and if they repaired a whole gen already to have a second fb ready and had time to trail a chase then I suppose that fb save isn't the event that turns the tables….).
Or, alternatively: You know which player has bgp? Well, how about you target them as soon as you get a chance? Also; they have to have trailed the chase for a while. Awareness of the map and where they could even come from can give you a tag on them/chase them off far enough to make it a lot harder to time the save.
And if all this isn't your cup of tea you can just leave the slug if you think the bgp+fb player is in position. A slug still forces at least one surv off a gen.
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Eruption procs when a survivor goes down, not when its hooked '-' You are thinking about the wrong perk
Anyway, having to equip a perk to counter something in the game is silly.
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Ok, wrong perk.
In the case of this perk then, empathy won't help any more than the status hub. Seeing a hurt survivor running doesn't show how close the killer is to hitting them. So unless you hop off the gen for the entire chase, knowing where they are doesn't help.
Alert would be a better perk where you keep track of which gen was kicked.
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Look like you are missing the point here. The whole merit of the discussion is: you don't need to have a perk to counter something the other side can do. You don't need to have lightborn to counter BGP + Flashbang. As you shouldn't need any survivor perk to counter a killer perk.
Having to bring a perk otherwise you have no chance against the other team is bad design. Period.
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Lightborn is useful and prevents what is being complained about. But that doesn't make it a requirement.
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