General Discussions
General Discussions
Efficient SWF on comms is now dethroned.
From what arguably was the most strongest broken to some and effective way to always win in public matches (besides nurse) is now being overshadowed by pop/pain res/ corrupt/ grim embrace on efficient Nurse/Blight/Wesker/Billy and Spirit players.
We’re getting closer and closer to adding even more killers to that list..
Can we all take a moment to let this sink in longevity wise please..
Comments
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tbh it’s BHVR and the community’s fault. Had they opted to make the game hook-oriented, none of this madness would have taken place.
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Yeah, people really asked too much for punishment instead of actual removal of all that broken mechanics
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"hook-oriented" gameplay only feels good for survivors
Killers want to kill21 -
I don't think an efficient SWF is "dethroned" as they will destroy pretty much every killer in public lobbies, as has been shown time and time again.
That being said, I do think stacking 3-4 gen control/regression perks should not be a thing and I will again say that I feel Pop should only have 4 charges total.
I have versed full gen regression builds where I am (as always) the solo queue sucker who takes the biggest risk trying to do the unsafe/mid gen, only to have it hit with Pain Res/Pop multiple times to the point I feel like I just cant do it and I want to go on to the next match.
I personally prefer Corrupt/Ruin as I feel it is less miserable to go against and the combo can be quite effective and I would like to see more of this kind of gen control over repeated regression which can feel really bad as survivor
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Actually, killers want to chase, down, and hook without having to sweat all the time
So no, hook oriented gameplay by itself is hardly a problem, just that gen time would be like 3 minutes each
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What is the name of the role the survivors are facing?
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Doesn't matter when bleedout is actually punished by the game, kind of
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I have no idea how that is a proper response but good job dodging my question
Let's get this straight: Killer players, by and large, don't load into the game and say "Oh boy! I'm gonna get some hooks! :D" They load in to get kills because this is a pvp game and kills are the prize8 -
efficient swf is not being dethroned. it is being balanced around. Killer are actually able to compete vs swf now with pain res+grim embrace. Before, SWF were so efficient at the game that regardless of how well killer did, the result was always the same. A loss. Now the killer punishes survivors that play poorly in the chase. In other words, you have to be good at looping to win in addition to be efficient.
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Winning game is a prize, kills by itself really isn't
If that was the what everyone is looking for, rancor would be in literally every loadout, but nope
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The two can be brought to the same end. Unlock basekit Moris after 8 hooks with no kills. That way Killer can go for the cool kills by getting 8 hooks, and brag about their greater victory matches.
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The first part of your comment is an oxymoron because kills are the win condition
You cannot brag about your hook count to the 4-man that just got out through the gate, they won. The killer playerbase would plummet in a hook-oriented meta because they are playing towards crap no one cares about. I would rather go play tekken because there is no disputing who won.9 -
That is essentially a forced 12-hook game and the time table of generators would need to be balanced for that
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Getting 3 hook 1 kill isn't any better than getting 4 escape, even 2 kill with endgame generally feels a loss for killer
So no, 6 hooks or 2 kills doesn't really matter, it's only a win when they win, and thus as long as they can win reasonably with hooks, they wouldn't care if they get less 1k 2k matches
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You haven't adequately explained what the killer is working towards and where he wins
If your idea of a win is just some subjective number of hooks, that is not good enough.2 -
Actually nvm, disregard me
I don't want to have this conversation about why or why not the game should be turned into a participation trophy playground. If that ever happened I would just play a better PVP game.3 -
Dead by Daylight is one-sided toward killers, but that's obvious to everyone. The developers don't want a balanced game and want to correct their awful game design with perks. You may as well AFK in half your matches since you must do three generators, a two-minute+ chase, and still unhook people in a single match to stand a chance in solo queue.
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Do you mean the participation trophy killers are given by allowing face-camping at endgame with their instadown charged in the poor player's face?
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It encourages a 12 hook game, not forces. A weaker skilled Killer can still get a 4k with facecamping a chokepoint as Bubba 17m away from hook, and merely using Deadlock and taking free downs. Even then other weaker skilled Killers can still Hook A/B/A/B/A/B/C/D for an 8 hook 4k, and still win. It would just provide those weaker skilled Killers who actually want to have bragging rights or the drive to improve in being willing to risk the Mori kills for a cooler win.
Gen times are balanced in my Killer games back when there was 80s gens with MMR, even further back with 80s gens and Rank based matchmaking, and still to this day with 90s gens and MMR. That just tells me people haven't reached their personal skill ceiling and are unwilling to learn in order to improve. This proposal would provide that incentive to improve, as many people would be willing to go for the 'MISSION ACCOMPLISHED' instead of the basic 'mission complete'.0 -
I so agree with this.
As survivor I want to have chases, as killer I want to chase so I hope the game moves more in this direction.
I am seeing so many full gen builds from killers lately and why they want to Slow gens, some games it is just so overwhelming and tedious to deal with it is easier just to go next.
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And solo survivor continues to be more and more of a waste of time.
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I don't really understand how you believe making game 4k or 0k only by forcing 12 hooks, making it extremely obvious whether you won or not, somehow makes "participation trophy playground" at all
It just makes this game more straightforward instead of current "you are playing four matches at same time" style, did you know this game was 1v1*4 and not 1v4 as we believe? I don't think you do
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Was there some new stats to dethrone Swf?
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This reply is as sophisticated as creationists jabbing at evolution theory because it has 'theory' in it. Good work.
If you had any knowledge on the base lore of the game you'd understand that the killer's job is as a tormentor first, killer second, as your sponsor feeds off the hope, pain and anger that goes on in the trial.
Just because the current goalpost for wins is kills doesn't mean it's good. The game rewards you with points and pips for extending the game, so obviously there's a desire for that to be the base gameplay, but BHVR has no solution to making this work yet.
And no, most killers I know, including myself, would rather chase more than score ez kills.
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Who are you talking to? You're saying this is this and that is that as if you know the entirety of the killer base. You're speaking for yourself. Don't tell me what feels like a loss to me.
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Right. And while I'm tormenting a survivor the others are popping gens. No thanks.
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Huh? 3k is win, anything else is lose, this is pretty much a fact even from MMR perspective
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The game considers a 2k a draw. Besides, that's not what you said.
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No it wouldn't you could still sacrifise normally. Moris don't count as kills on xbox so I wouldn't care if they did that. It would be good motivation for some killers to keep hooking instead yet sacrifising early game.
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If killers wants to just kill they would play TCM. No hooks just kills instantly. But in DBD killers want get hooks first then sacrifises.
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Since the game is balanced around a 60% kr a 2k is considered a loss by mmr otherwise the mmr system wouldn't work.
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This is nothing but another attempt to get regression NERFED. You took away old ruin, you took overcharge, you took original pop, you took BBQ, you took eruption, you took onryo regression perk like what more do you want?
You also took NOED.
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All four of those perks were stronger in the past. Why now is it a problem?
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Wow someone else speaking for the entire killer base.
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I personally understand why killers are stacking slowdown but I dislike the way many of these perks achieve slowdown. It creates a very tedious gameplay loop and continual wars of attrition that can become a real chore.
I would like to see changes where killers aren't feeling like they need to stack gen perks and chases are encouraged over constantly regressing gens to keep matches under control.
I don't personally care about NOED as killer as I never use it personally and feel its a crutch anyway. I don't care if killers want to run it though…
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And yet Killers can STILL stack 4 Slowdowns, which they dont even need.
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Then don't complain when you get nerfed and survivors get buffed immensely so survivors can survive.
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Killers just want to 4 kill at 5 gens every single game. It's almost like a "flawless victory." All those slowdown perks and hard tunneling allows them to achieve that.
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The Grim Embrace change is recent enough I'd say that indirectly makes the other 3 perks much better, even if in a vacuum they were arguably stronger in previous patches.
That and people are just tired of 9/10 games being against the same build, which is honestly a problem this game had since launch I guess, for both sides
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Pair this with all the crazy killer reworks they keep doing and it's just not fun to interact anymore.
it feels like the game is slowly devolving into victim gameplay, there is no back and forth1 -
For the record I enjoy hooking and loathe having to slug to get my kills.
Slugging is not fun for me, and having to run back to the hook because its by far the most efficient way of disrupting survivors is lame game design.
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Remember when making a point, your take doesn't apply to everyone.
When I play killer my goal is to kill. Getting 8 hooks and then everyone getting away is not what the game is about.
Its DEAD by daylight, not "severely injured by daylight." and definitely not "mildly inconvenienced by day light."
Hooks are just the primary mechanic that you use in order to get kills, the end goal is still to eliminate the opposition and the opponent goal is to avoid elimination.
The game should be built around those goals.
This is quite untrue.
Securing a single kill can often be a rewarding effort in a game that was going to be a total loss. You're dealing solely in absolutes WIN/LOSS. If that's how you want to view it fine, but there is a bit more to it than that.
Sure 1 kill and 3 escapes is still a loss overall for the killer, but just as being the only survivor to escape while a loss for the team is a satisfying personal win, that 1 kill can be just as satisfying an event.
What you are advocating for here is an elimination game with no real elimination. As if getting more hooks should somehow be the goal. DBD without elimination is just a dull farm fest with no real stakes.
DBD gets the kind of visceral reaction it does from players because elimination is so final and often feels kinda nasty, just like a horror movie.
Its DBD's greatest strength as a game.
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I'm discussing the merits of changing the system into a hook-based one, not whether it's a viable approach currently.
Although a solution is also getting better at killer. It's not a coincidence that actual good players that post content win most of their games without hard tunnelling/camping.
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correction some of you want to kill i play both roles and the hook system would put the game in a better health state and be more enjoyable for most ppl it would feels good for both sides
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playing without slowdown on killer is like playing to lose. the negative perk nerf also don't help with perk variety on killer either. there is like no good perk variety on killer where the killer feels good about not choosing slowdown.
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DId I say to play without Slowdown? No.
You know, there is a middleground between "No Slowdown" and "4 Slowdown Perks". You cannot tell me that a Killer needs to stack 4 Slowdowns. Telling me that "playing without slowdown on killer is like playing to lose" does neither address my post nor it is an actual argument.
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No one can 4kill at 5 gen against decent team even with all the slowdown perks
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I really wouldn't want someone like you in my survivor team for sure, if you afk in half your matches.
Survivors definitely face some issues, mainly camping and tunneling, but it's also not as bad as you are making it out to be.
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I mean, it would be as bad if everyone plays in the way he play
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I have never seen a killer meta that survivors didnt complain about. SO, survivors, I must ask, what is your ideal meta for killers?
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