Otz calls out Survivor Entitlement and Devs not Killswitching
in this video Otz calls out Survivors who give up for every small inconvenience its gotten so worse 9/10 games has someone Dc or give up on hook and Devs aware of broken maps and exploited Perks but refuse to killswitch.
Its time that Devs make drastic changes to the game to stop players from ruining matches everyone is sick of this.
Developers should make it so taking a chance on hook no longers drains the time on hook you just get 2 4% chances and then it disables or take a chance removed in general. 2nd stage on Hook Struggle is removed.
Comments
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If the game isn't fun for people then they're going to act this way. I've played this game for years and people did not give up anywhere near as much when I started. There is something fundamentally wrong with the game itself if people are giving up on a consistent basis. Maybe look into that if you want to stop people from giving up. Just whining about people being entitled doesn't actually fix anything and it never will. I've said before that I don't believe the current balance philosophy is sustainable long term and I still feel this way.
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I've said for ages, if a Survivor wants out, they should just glue themselves to gens and do nothing else. Quitting is such bottom behaviour.
Also, I love that people only really pay attention to the annoying and bs behaviour of most of the Survivor player base when the popular person(s) talk about it
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they should just glue themselves to gens and do nothing else
But it's just pointless to see gen being hit by PR into POP into another regression. Literally waste of time.
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I want to leave the game, I can DC and be punished for that or I can die off hook and not be punished for that. If you remove second option, players would simply alt+tab, because why not?The devs use this logic as well, and at least based on my games I don't think its true. When I see a person trying to sacrifice themselves and I/someone else rescues them, sometimes they run right to the killer, but lots of times they go back to playing the game. Even if this only fixes the issue sometimes, that's a lot better than never.
Developers should make it so taking a chance on hook no longers drains the time on hook you just get 2 4% chances and then it disables or take a chance removed in general. 2nd stage on Hook Struggle is removed.Agree on the second stage. I'm not sure why there exists two free unhooks attempts in your scenario instead of removing it entirely outside AFC or a perk. I've think that it should not exist for the first two people hooked, then can be normal after that, and it would correct a lot of gameplay issues
Post edited by EQWashu on5 -
I've noticed too much teaming with the killer or survivors who will rat others out like what the Zarina did to Otz.
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So if your not having fun in 90% of your games why are you still playing? Were not whining were calling for the devs to make changes and to stop who give up at every small thing
So you just want 0 regression period in games and just want 3 min matches go play a different game cause slowdowns are never being gutted
it would resolve people circumventing the DC penalty and not make it a 3v1 when the match just started and Devs can punish people who Alt+Tab and replace you with a Bot now the other 3 Survivors have a chance to win
Post edited by EQWashu on12 -
You don't see Killers DCing all the time when Survivors do their objectives in the shortest time possible.
It's a very immature, childish attitude to give up at the smallest inconvenience. If you're anticipating that you're gonna lose quickly, what's the big deal? You'll be in a new match in no time at all if you just stick it out and actually try to win anyway. If you do end up losing, who cares? At least it's giving you and your teammates a chance by sticking with it and helping them try to progress their objective.
The Survivor meta is literally a perfect counter to all the things you said you don't like versing. It's actually not a great stance you've taken up. The weaker Killers, even with full slowdown still struggle to get a single kill against Survivors that glue to gens and don't make stupid decisions like throw themselves at a hook. The stronger Killers will still struggle against Survivors that are glued to gens too. Yeah they have more tools to be able to strategize better than the rest of the roster, but they still have to try to compete against insanely quick gens speed. If you play safe against them, it minimises the frequency they can access their slowdown perks (since they're hook related).
Seriously, the entitled behaviour of "I don't like this, I quit" has plagued the community of DBD for years now. The Devs have done nothing to discourage Survivors crying and getting out of their pram. So now it's got to this stage where people justify why they have a childish attitude with the "it's X Killer, so it's fine" or "these perks are boring". If Killers were entitled like that, no one would ever be able to play out a full match.
So, to you, and all bottom Survivors with childish attitudes, if you feel like you are gonna lose, just do your objective. Glue yourself to gens. Chances are you will win or at least give your teammates a win. Instead of quitting and making your team lose because you're a bottom.
Post edited by EQWashu on27 -
So you just want 0 regression period in games and just want 3 min matches go play a different game cause slowdowns are never being gutted
No, I want fair game which both sides have chance to win.
If I'm playing vs Blight / Wesker with 1-2 randoms that don't equip Distortion, they got hook before first gen is done, my gen got PR, then killer procs Grim and go to my gen to use POP, what are my chances to escape?
Very slim, I don't know if I should even try at this point when literally all I've done in this match to that point got nullified.
it would resolve people circumventing the DC penalty and not make it a 3v1 when the match just started and Devs can punish people who Alt+Tab
What's the difference between replacing someone who DC'd with replacing someone who Alt-Tabbed? If you punish Alt-Tab, then people would simply run around the killer.
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Glueing yourself to a gen in order to die is great until the killer realizes that you've given up so they just grab you off the gen then let you bleed out
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No, killers also DC or stand in the corner when they don't have single hook after 3 gens are done.
stick it out and actually try to win anyway.
Yeah, sure, especially while vs this build on high mobility killer:
The Survivor meta is literally a perfect counter to all the things you said you don't like versing.
And how above perks let me counter situation in which one of the randoms got hooked, killer inflicted PR (-25%), then go to mine gen to inflict another POP (-5%, then -30% of what's left). Am I missing something? Should I counter this playstyle by Sprint Bursting or Lithe???
Glue yourself to gens. Chances are you will win or at least give your teammates a win.
Why should I if there is no point and all progress that I do on my objective could be entirely nullified?
Like, killers got:
- Longer gen times (+10 seconds)
- Weaker and smaller maps
- Weaker tiles, new map don't have any strong loops
- Healing nerfs, medkit nerfs
- Basekit STBFL stacks
- Reduced speed boost after hitting survivor
- Basekit -5% on kicking gen
- Removed gen tapping
Yet I still see non-stop aura revealing perks awarding killers for doing such hard tasks as opening the locker/kicking the gen
or absurd gen regression perks on killers that really don't need all of this.Game should move on, gen regression perks should slow down the progress of gen, not stall the game and nullify all efforts entirely.
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This, also let's remember that bleed out timer takes 2 minutes and I've seen many games in which I was left to bled out, 4 gens left to do, but killer just wanted 4k.
Waste of Time, now if I see killer that want easy game and is desperate for 4k, then it's the issue that I'm giving them easy game and move on to another one?
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And here again, addressing the symptom and not the disease. Guess what will happen if you remove the ability to let go on hook? Will frustrated survivors suddenly try their best in every match they want to leave? Nope, they will just throw themselves at the killer 3 times, meanwhile dropping every pallet on the map just to spite everyone. Then your games will be even more ruined. What is your next move then? Making pallets unthrowable and survivors unkillable?
If people are so frustrated they keep dying on the first hook, maybe it's better to look into the reason why suddenly so many players feel so bad about every other game?
Also, DC penalty was introduced as an answer to the same whims: "please stop survivors from DCing so that they finally play every match seriously!" Well, does it help you now, when instead of leaving and giving place to a bot, who at least does gens and goes for unhooks, they now just die on hook and remove a survivor from the game completely? You can complain about "entitled survivors" all you want, but in general if you only "fix" the consequences of an issue, while leaving the issue itself unattended, the consequences will only get worse.
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If someone wants to be removed from game, there will always be an option to do that. Running around the killer, missing skillchecks etc.
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Calling for DC penalty to be removed just offers temporary satisfaction and is detrimental in the long run.
The practice of quitting during multiplayer games has always been frowned upon in the gaming community, DBD being an assym doesn't make it some special snowflake that is immune to this fact.
Ultimately when the devs have fixed all the problematic aspects of the game, reinstating the DC penalty would make sense. However would the community be willing to accept that? Can the players who have been disconnecting over any minor inconvenience because there's no DC penalty suddenely go back to playing out full games without quitting? I highly doubt that, developed habits are hard to unlearn.
At that point when the DC penalty gets reinstated, those prone to DC-ing would find some other way to get out of games quickly which is pretty much the current "letting go on the hook". Doesn't sound like the type of behavior to be encouraged by the devs.6 -
Ultimately when the devs have fixed all the problematic aspects of the game
What's the point theorizing about something that will never happen?
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“If Killers were entitled like that, no one would ever be able to play out a full match” killers dc too dont get it twisted. Also killers lobby dodge a lot to cherry pick lobbies. You can’t do that as survivor
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I'd say that's different from dc'ing. It makes the time between games last longer, and throws out proper matchmaking, but it's not dropping the game mid-match.
Is it an issue? To an extent, sure, but nowhere near as problematic as actual dc'ing.
Nice Us vs Them, tho.
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If you believe that the problematic aspects of the game can never be fixed, why are you still playing the game and not getting off the "sinking ship" so to speak?
Furthermore, my post was based on how the devs would likely view removing the dc penalty in terms of pros and cons. While the devs have been rather slow in terms of effecting huge change, they have slowly but surely been addressing long term issues such as face camping, hook grabs, downing the same unhooked Survivor immediately via basekit BT etc
Perhaps the ideal healthy version of DBD will take 2-3 more years to be implemented, maybe it won't happen. That's not up to me or you decide, that's up to the devs.
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No, thank you :)
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Removing the struggle won't solve nothing, if the struggle is removed then the survivors who want to leave will go and look for the killer to be hooked again and leave.
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Dang imagine if overwatch or siege let you eliminate yourself from your team early and for the rest of the match. The chaos that would ensue. Glad other games don't let a rager get out early with no consequence. They dc. They get a ban. They hard throw. They get reported and get a ban. There's no way out with no consequence in the long run. Actually sounds healthier right when you think about it that either you have to get a penalty or possibly banned for unsportsmanlike conduct? Because then maybe they feel they have to tough it out.
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Everyone knows that the Killer is the power role. Everyone knows they become stronger as the match progresses and the Survivors become weaker. Therefore, there is very little room for error on the Survivor side. I believe this is the primary reason why so many Survivors give up so early; that "minor inconvenience" has a 99.999999% potential to cost them the entire match. Meanwhile, Killers can make a few mistakes early on, Survivors can do a few gens (even four of them) and the Killer still comes out on top in the end.
How do we fix that? I really can't say. In fact, I can't even say it should be fixed, as the Killer is supposed to be the power role, after all.
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I’m sorry but the reason for people giving up on my matches are simply because they are bad and want easy wins. I find a survivor crouched in a corner trying to avoid me in the first minute of the game and as soon as I hit them they DC; lmao, like what? The root cause of that is they got caught and got mad that they got caught. Simple. I’ve had survivors DC from Crossmaps, Orbitals, and failed saves. 9 times out of 10 they are mad because something didn’t go there way, and not because the game was unwinnable.
Some DCs have been reasonable like survivors looping me around the unhook before I ever got the chance to leave and I’m not gonna leave when I know a survivor is right there.
At the end of the day it’s usually entitlement or simply not wanting to go against certain killers. I’ve dc’ed frequently against Legion because how unbearable those matches are. So yes I am entitled because I don’t want to play against that boring af killer. But I accept what it is and don’t make excuses.
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Killers if they had a way to Circumvent the dc penalty would do that because you think they like losing 2 gens in a chase no they would dc but they can't they'll face a penalty nor can they circumvent it its been proven every time the Dc penalty been turned off and the devs know this cause Survivors are major entitled and need to be humbled
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Perhaps they should address WHY people are giving up, for once, instead of continuing to bandaid fix issues with paid content.
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I dunno that you wanna emulate OW2 or Siege.
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Killer can slug you for 4 mins for Ruining your teammates match and no you dont you want easy matchs and will Dc against a perkless wraith
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Comments showing the people who dc at every little inconvenience
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Killers giving up is far less common than Survivors giving up.
Mobility Killers are obviously gonna be able to apply pressure easier than others. But if you don't like going against a Killer or play style, adapt your build and play style so that when you go against them, you are ready and at an advantage.
If you and your randoms used a mix of those perks in the picture, they would be able to prevent or decrease the frequency of the Killer meta from being used. You have chase perks and anti-momentum perks listed there. So what they regress the gen closest to being done, there should be 2 others close to being done at the same time if your Survivors aren't playing bad, or making dumb decisions like not being on a generator. So even if your one gets regressed from 99% down to 50%. That's only 30 seconds that someone else needs to swoop in and finish it off while you get chased, at an advantage because your meta perks allow you to extend chases longer than normal.
You seriously think Killers don't need gen regression? You must be at a very low level of MMR. Killers will lose 3 gens for one hook 99/100 of matches verse good Survivors. And by good, I mean they know to glue to gens while they are not being pressured by the Killer or the match scenario (one hooked, one slugged, one being chased for a specific example).
A lot of those Killers buffs barely impact the gameplay, the only one/two I'd say were great was 5% regression per kick + no gen tapping. Everything else is barely noticeable. Survivors can still get hit and make it halfway across a map in a straight line (about 60 meters) before they need to find a pallet or tile to loop.
Yet Survivors can pre drop every safe pallet and be fine. Don't be so blinkered, gen regression is used because the game is impossible to actually get a meaningful chance of winning without them not because players love those perks and want to use them. Every match will go to the end game/EGC without gen defence and the Killer will only get more than 1 kill if the Survivors get overly altruistic and end up making mistakes in the process. No gen defence against smart, efficient Survivors is giving them a free win.
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lobby dodging is different the difference your not in a match if they gave survivors the ability to see the killer before the match would absolutely be borderline impossible to start and the proof is all the survivors dcing at the start cause its [insert killer here] Killers do Dc but they face a dc penalty unlike survivors who can circumvent it.
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Always a blast watching people try and argue against this. Really shows how twisted the mentality of this community is.
The game does not function when one side of it can leave on a whim. If what op said came to pass the game would heal to a great extent and that's a pure fact.
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Please tell us the WHY because for survivors its literally everything
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then killer can slug em and go after someone else
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Killers lobby dodging is not a comparison to Survivors giving up during a match. One essentially guarantees the opponent wins, the other makes the opponent wait longer to load into a match.
Of course Killers DC too, there's always gonna be people that get tilted in any game and any role they play. Doesn't mean that it happens as much. If a Killer quits, only they lose and every opponent wins. If a Survivor quits, they lose, but they also most likely made their team lose too. Quitting in a team environment is always crappy. Whereas if they weren't bottoms, stuck it out, and just helped the team do gens, you may all win.
Also, Killers quitting has always been something Survivors love to see happen, ironically. Getting a Killer to quit is always clipped and met with laughter at their expense. If Killers quit matches on mass whenever they versed something they disliked: Flashbang+Background Player or For The People+Buckle Up. There would be outrage and the Devs would do something about it. Either nerf the perks, or most likely punish the quitters heavily. Survivors DC and they usually get met with Survivor buffs or Killer meta nerfs, or most likely both. They don't help the situation. And players don't help themselves.
Seriously, just do gens. It's what you'd all be doing in the next match you load into when the Killer hasn't got any meaningful pressure anyway. So just do the gens in the matches you think are losses and you maybe most likely will turn it around and win.
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You ain't gotta give up, just do the damn gens and take the chase if you get pressured. It's what you'd be doing in a match where your Survivor team is winning or not going against a Killer you dislike anyway. No difference at all.
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
Killers at higher levels have always had to deal with losing 3 gens for their first hook at a best case scenario in the majority of matches for years now. Killers adapt and persevere for the most part. Survivors for the most part DC the moment they hear a Terror Radius of a character that they don't like.
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Besties, stop pretending that killers need to have a reason to play like that, okay?
I've played this game for some years and I've remembered when killers said that "we are slugging/tunneling because someone brought the key!!!".
There will always be a """reason""" and justification to playing like that 😂
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Killers adapt
Sure and killers "adapted" by using perks that literally give value for nothing (Lethal / Corrupt), require some hard tasks like kicking the gen (Nowhere to Hide) or opening the locker (Ultimate Weapon), or justify that is completely balanced that one hook can get -25% to gen (PainRes), then block all gens (Grim), then inflict another -5% with another -30% of what's left (Pop).
Truly amazing performance that require immense skill.
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DBD is literally the only game I see people endorse giving up. Any other community would grill you for saying you are in the right for DCing in a public match.
I think the reason is that, unlike most other multiplayer games, DBD started off without punishment for leaving and has a built in way to circumvent the newer punishment anyway.
If DBD started with a DC penalty and never had a way to give up on hook, then I don’t think this community would act this way as much as it does now. But it took so long to add an actual punishment and there is still a way to avoid it so the community has got it locked in their head that it’s okay for them. Honestly I can’t blame them when that’s how the game worked for so long, even though I agree with Otz that there needs to be more done to stop it.
People are going to complain no matter which side they chose, so it’s better for them to pick one and stick with it even at the risk of upsetting the other. I think there should be more done to prevent it because if no matter what they do to balance the game and remove these reasons people DC, they will just find more because that’s what they always do.
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Maybe killers (including Otz) need to recognize that if 9/10 survivors are leaving your match. It is not the survivors that are the problem. I play killer and I almost NEVER have someone DC and suiciding on hook is rare. But I also NEVER run back to the hook, do not slug at the beginning of matches, I don't camp or tunnel. And you know what, people stay and play with me.
I win some and I lose some but it's always fair. And you know what that is all survivors are looking for. DbD devs (and killer mains) seem to be under the impression that if a 4k doesn't happen every match something is wrong and needs fixed. Which is why maps are all half the size and killers all have 14 built-in abilities before you even strap on perks. Survivors are tired of playing this way.
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I didn't know the killer could equip 7 perks
This man will upload the same nightlight screenshots to every thread as though they're gospel
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Honestly, that sucks. I'm that survivor that, when there's two people left and the game is clearly a loss, will place myself on a gen until the killer comes. But it's 50/50 whether the killer will hook me or leave me slugged. It's why I've kind of become indifferent to complaints about the final two survivors turning the game into hide and seek by trying to outlast each other. Sure that sucks for killers but so does having to do the heal/repeatedly knocked down/bleed out dance between the killer and final survivor. Just let me leave.
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I mean I know they aren't the best themselves. But at least they have something in the fact like I said. They don't have base mechanics that let you bail out of the match early with no consequence to force your team to play the rest of the match without you (this should go for any decent team game) . The options are dc. Which gets you a ban. Or play out the match throwing. But they are also more aggressive on banning for throw play. So all you get is probably people that are annoyed but they still actually play out the match. Self-unhook attempts and giving up on hook especially with how often it happens now for even the weirdest reasons just gives a tool for way more toxicity.
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Edit: Wow... just watched the video... all of this from disabling pips, all of this exploitation... Yikes...
Only allow it when only 1 other survivor is left standing and the rest are in the dead/hooked/dying/escaped states.
It's annoying cause I want to keep the 4% unhook chance as it ia now, as it does give one last ditch attempt when everything else hits the fan.
The correct way for this last ditch to be implemented is how it currently is, where the agency is left to the player... but it unfortunately allows this SoH, and as per usual people need to have their hand slapped instead of a carrot dangled to get the message.
BHVR should keep it as is, but build a SOH report system that is tracked over a large number of games. They need to track self unhook attempts in the game logs, allow players to flag a player for SoH in the report screen, and if someone gets enough aligning reports/events within a set timeframe, that person is issued a ban, or put in a special queue with other SoHers.
That's the only way to stop it if you aren't gonna disable it.
The one upside to all this SoH, is maybe it'll finally get enough attention to the point BHVR can't ignore it.
Post edited by UndeddJester on5 -
Seems like a lot of people on the DBD forums don't like playing DBD....
Business as usual.
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This is a videogame with code that something like a map will be adjusted, and suddenly the knights power is broken. Things are linked in very strange ways, the game really is balancing on a tightrope.
Did they seriously expect to go to a whole new engine with zero issues? They cant even adjust something small without something completely unrelated happening.
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Course they don't need a reason but neither does your giving up instantly
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That is just "your" experience literally for example Scott jund played perkless wraith on stream with no addons and geuss what survivors still gave up
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There is no excuse not kill-switching these maps and bugged perk yesterday.
As for the despicable behavior of some players, it'll be great if they could get a penalty but I don't see how to do it easily.
Is there a point reporting the perk exploiter?
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No Devs confirmed they don't ban people who abuse perks or broken map offerings
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