Genuinely... what is the objective with these balance changes?

HexSendHelp Member Posts: 48
  • Survivors will now be able to sabo easier than ever (which just promotes slugging btw. not sure why that's what you want when it's been expressed as a boring way to play, you should be PROMOTING hooks. Not actively giga buffing things that counter it.)
  • Killers will quite literally be left with ONLY pain res for a viable gen regress perk at this point. Everything else is god awful.

I do not understand the objective of this patch. Great new killer power, great new killer design, great new survivor design, interesting new survivor perks, just to get overshadowed by something as simple as game balance. That is horrid.

I do not understand the disconnect here with the devs:

"Hey BHVR, slugging and tunneling sucks!"

"Oh ok... we're going to buff sabo so the killer has no choice BUT to slug, which will also lead to them tunneling because they won't be able to get as many successful hooks, forcing them to just target one person! We're also going to nerf the only 2 remotely decent gen regress perks, and buff NONE of the other ones that we've butchered and left useless over the years! So to win games... guess what? More tunneling!!!"

Like??? What is not being understood here?


  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 595

    Only pain res? Both Jolt and Pentimento exist

  • GolbezGarlandGabrant
    GolbezGarlandGabrant Member Posts: 871

    They tried giving people Buckle Up as an incentive to interact and get people off gens. Since they now nerfed Buckle Up they are giving sabo'ing as a form of interaction.

    Their objective is giving people who don't like doing gens something to do that also helps the team.

  • hailxsatanxeveryxday
    hailxsatanxeveryxday Member Posts: 913

    Just ran into another sabo squad. I guess they're practicing.

    If there is one thing these types of people hate, it's getting a taste of their own medicine.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,130

    Sabo, or how I learn to love the slug.

    From someone who suffered through the OG sabo, if you deny me the hook I deny you ever being hooked.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328

    lol its all good! Every player in this game is a hypocrite at some point or another. We are all literally guilty of the crap we complain about, eventually. Blaming others for one's own behavior is the escapist route to dealing with being scummy.

    Game on!

  • dooteranopia
    dooteranopia Member Posts: 7

    I've only very rarely experienced a sabotage that worked without consequence. Most of the time it either ends up failing completely (either because they got there too late to do it before I could prevent it, or because another hook was easily available), or results in a trade. I do think it might be interesting to have a mechanic that affects wiggle progress or something to a higher level if you're on the ground near a sabotaged hook. That would counter the urge to slug after a sabotage I would think, no?

  • Sngfun
    Sngfun Member Posts: 134

    I mean it's a really risky strategy even with these changes. At worst you are doing the killer's job for them, at best you are delaying another survivor's death by putting yourself in the killer's face, hoping the 1v4 pays off better than the 1v3.

    Before these buffs sabo builds where only useful to noobstomp, and bhvr nows killers prefer to interact more with the survivors than deal with uninteractive genrush builds.

  • hailxsatanxeveryxday
    hailxsatanxeveryxday Member Posts: 913

    I usually just tunnel that person out. If they complain in chat, my response is always along the lines of, "Well, my understanding was that you didn't want me to hook anyone else. You wanted all the attention for yourself, so I gave it to you."

    I'm not "blaming" so much as pointing out that if survivors do X, I'm going to do Y, and survivors don't like Y very much.

    I play like a complete scumbag in the first place. I always try to run the most OP addons I can and always tunnel at five gens (the above screenshot is not a typical build for me). But my goal is the win the match, not bully the survivors for no reason, so I'm typically not slugging people without a strategic reason.

    I also don't do the stuff that I genuinely and truly hate. I never ran OG Dead Hard, and I have never once run BU+FTP, for two examples.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,685

    Sabo is definitely something they need to be careful about buffing, and I do think they understand that.

    I will wait to see how it plays out; I find it equally likely that it becomes totally unheard of after two weeks or that it becomes a problem.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328

    But you tunnel out the gate. I am simply flabbergasted lol.

    If I may inquire, I am truly curious right now and would love to ask some questions.

    The comment "I also don't do the stuff that I genuinely and truly hate. I never ran OG Dead Hard, and I have never once run BU+FTP, for two examples.'

    Do you not hate getting tunneled? Do you enjoy it?

    Why did/would you not run OG dead hard? We're you not wanting to annoy/anger the killer player?

    BU+FTP is a valid strat. Why would you avoid using it?

    I ask these to try and get insight. I dont have your perspective on games and I would like to understand better. So why would you not do those things, but you would tunnel if it has the exact same affect as using OG dead hard or BU+FTP?

    Thank you!

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,157

    Not the person you are responding to, but yeah, i like getting tunneled.

    When playing survivor, the fun part of the game is the interaction i get with the killer. Holding m1 on a gen for 90 seconds is not my idea of fun.

    AMOGUS Member Posts: 482

    So, your entire specific scenario and attempts to math your way to balance here neglects how hooks are typically within 10 meters of each other. And how a Survivor has to predict which hook is going to be used, and get off of gens or other stuff to sabo that hook. Which all typically requires perks and such.

    "And what if they ARENT???" Well that almost never happens so lmao And if it does, oh well. Just drop the Survivor and redown them once they get picked up.

  • solarjin1
    solarjin1 Member Posts: 1,846

    only one toolbox got a wroth while mentioning increase. Alex toolbox having a 100% sabotage speed while u can still put addons on it sound a bit to powerful.

  • hailxsatanxeveryxday
    hailxsatanxeveryxday Member Posts: 913

    No, I don't like being tunneled at all, but, at the same time, I understand why people are doing it. I don't hold it against the killer (it's honestly probably a wise decision considering that I can't loop very well and I'm usually the biggest threat to generators on my team).

    Old DH, old MFT, old DS during the endgame, and (soon-to-be old) BU+FTP are/were all just complete BS. I just didn't feel right running a get-out-of-a-hook-free card with zero counterplay, and, as a killer, I'll punish BU+FTP especially. If I see that combo, you are not leaving my lobby alive, even if it means I get a 1K with 8000 BP.

    I guess I just see certain things like tunneling, godlooping, genrushing as things that annoy me when they're used against me, but still part of the game. The perks I listed above were just pure cheese to get an unfair advantage.

    See, and my idea of a good time is staying on gens all game, not seeing the killer once, and making it out with a 4E.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 15,682

    Might as well just the Hook where the person died on. At 5 Gens. I can clearly feel how you must be suffering in this game, having already a Kill at 5 Gens to go.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328

    I agree. I feel Im allergic to gens sometimes. (Might be a Plague lol) And as a decent looper I don't mind. Kind of do when its not me though. Hmm, think I just figured that out lol.

    Appreciate the explanation. I don't agree as I see killer bias swimming in your words, but at the same time… I feel I'm seeing that due to my own survivor bias? lol I dunno. Calling it cheese and 'has zero counterplay' kind of misses a lot of marks for me. The exception is OG Dead Hard. That was a monster that I'd love to feed and pet again. (only in customs of course :P)

    I dont/havent used BU+FTP or DS once in my life. Likely not changing as I feel DS is absolute krapp as a perk. The combo is balanced from my perspective since it need 2 survivors, all close to you, while not on gens, and getting downed, then running in to get them up, and getting away again. All this amounts to a net gain for the killer imo. BUt I play Trapper only so they usually go right into a trap. I feel for these other killers who claim to be high tier (Blight, Nurse, etc) and struggle with this. Just give Trapper a shot :)

    Dead Hard will never leave my builds, regardless of how much BHVR stabs it, lol. But thank you for explaining.

    That was quite refreshing and makes sense now. I really appreciate the explanation, as I said! GL in the fog!

  • hailxsatanxeveryxday
    hailxsatanxeveryxday Member Posts: 913

    Oh, I wasn't suffering. That was all the survivors.

    But my point in posting the picture was that the people who run these sorts of builds and follow you around all game trying to make it so that you don't ever get a single hook are not the people who handle things well when the killer responds with the obvious and logical counterplay.

    That girl on the floor was obnoxious with her little toolbox, but she DC'd the very second I downed her for the first time.

    It's hard to see how buffing sabotage in general is going to lead to more player happiness, but I personally do not mind.

    I probably am biased. I try not to be, but honestly, if there were a killer perk that deleted all pallets and windows from the map instantly or regressed every gen back to zero every time you kicked one, I'd probably use it.

    Still, if I hate something with so much passion that I'll actively punish for it in my own games, I'm not going to run those same things as a survivor.

    Hard disagree about BU+FTP, but Chucky is also the only non-M1 killer I really play (and that's very recent). It's infuriating when there's one gen left and a survivor with Windows just godlooped Mikey for two minutes only for them to pop right back up just before the last gen pops (and then of course they're running Adrenaline).

    There was never anything wrong with DS other than it being used offensively during the endgame.

  • Nick
    Nick Member Posts: 1,222
    edited May 16
    • Jolt only works with m1 killers, who are very weak themselves already. It is horrible on big maps, only decent on indoor maps. Also speedruns you to that 8x regression event cap.
    • For Pentimento people have to cleanse totems…. which good players don't. Plaything is the obvious pick but good players will know you most likely pair it with Penti. Other option is a full totem build, but I can't see how a full RNG build is good. We both know the totem spawns on most maps… they're horrible.