I think healing needs a rework

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WillRat
WillRat Member Posts: 8

With all the changes to gen repair, regression, camping, hook sabotaging, base kit anti tunnel, I feel like healing should be one of the next things to get a reshuffle or at least added mechanics.

First of all, medkits. I think it is really confusing how every medkit is the same medkit but with less than a quarter second faster healing modifier between each one. I think bhvr should rework medkits again, give them unique properties once more like the ranger medkit having enough charges for two altruism heals, not too quick but you get two of them. The emergency medkit should have an effect like survivors dropping half the blood for ten seconds next time they are injured, or having scratch marks fade three seconds faster for a short time after they're injured again. With all the toolboxes getting additional sabotage buffs and at green and purple rarities there are two toolboxes, I think medkits need a bump up to altruism and restore self healing back to 100% (more on that later) but all in all just freshen up medkits.

and secondly I think healing in chase needs to be nerfed or limited. I think there should be a "Chase Pressure" penalty in chase, and have a lingering effect outside of chase, sorta like clown's perk which increases skill check speed and reduces heal speed. I think self healing should be capped to 80/85% while in chase and altruistic healing capped to 125%, and maybe add a small fraction of the skill check speed increase.

I like to theme it around you know, the bloodthirsty murderer is right there, you can try patching up but you'll do it less effectively and more sloppy. I feel like this plus the lingering effect would prevent the return of the mid chase green medkit heal, which is why I think passively after like 20 seconds medkits should heal self at 100%, but still make it so that no matter which medkit, basekit you still only get one self heal to balance it out so you should feel more inclined to use your first responser all you need medkit on your allies instead of burning through supplies on yourself.

I understand this just seems like "medkits should be buffed, healing in chase should be penalized" but I do feel like that's what we could use right now. Because when botany knowledge outranks any need to use any medkit for altruistic healing no matter what rarity and almost no matter what addons I think there might be a problem. To harken back if healing speed is really an issue, I think medkits need side abilities instead of speed. Brown medkit can stay the same as right now, regular first aid kit can have a survivor noise reduction temporarily, emergency medkit reduces blood frequency and ranger kit is more heals or an effect like 10% reduced entity summon rate for 60 seconds (not on hook, but just overall in case you get hooked within the minute)

I want to know what others feel about it or if I might be missing some key detail I could be blanking on just because I think survivor items are incredibly stale right now, so feel free to chip in.

Comments

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    With all the healing nerfs that have already happened, if another rework on healing were to take place it would also mean the gutting of perks like botany knowledge (once again). Might as well just remove the perk from the game at that point. It's good to have a healing alternative without having to rely on a 1 charge medkit. Just imagine your changes vs a spam mend build, no chance.

  • WillRat
    WillRat Member Posts: 8
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    I don't view mending and healing as the same action, and I don't believe the game does either unless they pushed out a monster patch that tied them together.

    As with perks like botany I view the previous form of botany (33% increased heal speed) as my personal favorite form of botany, maybe not the efficiency bonus as even though it makes logical sense, I believe botany shouldn't aid item efficiency instead it should boost just heal speed and by chance if instead of gutting it what if they added a mend speed bonus? its not a perfect replacement for the 33% item efficiency bonus, but it would be an effect no other perks have, while also making desperate measures sit in place again as now DM is sorta pointless to run compared to botany save for the unhook speed boost

  • WillRat
    WillRat Member Posts: 8
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    The reason I thought of the heal speed cap is just so those who run overcome & bite the bullet with a medkit aren't given a free way to heal against a killer not running nurses, or the potential We'll make it + CoH because even though those circumstances are rare, a survivor duo who can recognize it and play on a strong map where the killer is likely to make errors or pockets for survivors to hide. Just to essentially remove the possibility of a killer losing incredible pressure due to losing the survivors for a small window of time, but also not entirely gut a heal speed bonus

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    I don't view mending and healing as the same action

    And that's the problem. Mending can be VERY oppressive when built around correctly.

  • WillRat
    WillRat Member Posts: 8
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    Forgive me if I might miss your point but isn't this already in the game? an oppressive mender wouldn't have much of a difference with these changes since in my perfect world (not perfect) it would only affect healing, not mending. Although I do recognize and share a similar hesitance around say a mend legion which is why I think they should compensate healing perks like botany with mend speed increases

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    Of course it's already in the game which is why it's a subject.

    Everything that changes with healing usually means mending needs to be taken into account or it can be very obnoxious.

    They reworked healing not too long ago, nerfed it across the board and medkits took a heavy hit overall. The tier system for med kits is a good idea but I doubt they would be proposed to changing the system up so soon, probably in the next 2-3 years or so.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,533
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    I wouldn't mind Healing being looked at… but it isn't a big enough deal to say it needs to be done right now

  • WillRat
    WillRat Member Posts: 8
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    I agree on the usage of BTB however I said before it is a lingering effect, say hypothetically 20 seconds, so if you were to escape chase you aren't able to make the best use of your medkit for the 20 seconds after you escaped. However I do see the probability of the survivor not being able to guarantee any safe survivability since they might wait out the 20 seconds only for the killer to find them again.

    Balancing BTB because of overcome is a great point however and I understand the philosophy, my point of view stems from the pre-nerf Green medkit + botany + overcome BTB stealth heal, which would give an 8 second heal (granted you actually packed another charge addon to get the heal) and somewhat felt like a smack in the face, which is why I put in the pressure idea in addendum since I would like medkits reworked but you can't get medkits reworked without the probability of the stealth heals coming back, which is why I supposed the trade offer of self healing with a medkit having 10% extra speed base but you do have the lingering effect.

    As for the COH + We'll Make it, really the Co-Op heal cap of 120% I feel would counteract this huge semi-problematic circumstance. However I would like to tune the numbers a bit more such as possibly 133%/166% speed, and to reiterate say you're on an indoor map (which I recognize is a point of contention as an INDOOR MAP problem and not a HEALING problem) on rpd and somehow you lose someone that was in chase inside of a CoH boon and someone with botany/we'll make it performs the heal in the small window you grant them for them to fully heal, albeit unlikely.

    The heal cap in this scenario would provide the killer a bit more "refund" on a bad play as to not immediately lose the pressure they had in the hypothetical window it takes for them to regain tracking on the wounded survivor, but still provide a heal speed boost (although I'm not sure if it should work on the HEALER survivor as they weren't in chase)

    As for the -15% speed as I said before, it would be an overall CAP on healing speed for recently chased survivors, not so much a small penalty on heal speed. Which is why I then pointed up possibly adjusting the cap to be a bit more forgiving of heal build survivors going from 300% healing speed to a hard cap of 120% for 20 seconds outside chase. Assuming this pressure mechanic gets added and bhvr fine tunes it to the point survivors & killers are at least tolerable of the mechanic

  • WillRat
    WillRat Member Posts: 8
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    Fairs fair, I get what you mean. No harm done brother we're still playing the same game at the end of the day.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,500
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    Healing is fine. Plenty of times where someone gets unhooked and you can't physically get back to the hook before they're healed.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,077
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    I feel that Survivors shouldn’t be able to heal while in chase at all, unless they use the one time use Syringe. In return, Self Care gets buffed because it is painfully slow for the user and frustrating to watch while one hangs on the hook. The devs can come up with a different slowdown or even buff killers faster movement speed when not in chase or something.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
    edited May 17
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    If I may, in this scenario of yours, the survivor is running 2 perks, in either example, to get this 'free heal.'

    You mention killer not running A Nurses Calling…. that's their problem and decision making, not a problem with the game or even healing.

    Just to essentially remove the possibility of a killer losing incredible pressure due to losing the survivors for a small window of time, but also not entirely gut a heal speed bonus.

    Despite it being a reason that doesn't even matter, 'remove the possibility of killer losing incredible pressure'

    …What? Why?

    'due to losing the survivors for a small window of time, but also not entirely gut a heal speed bonus'

    Oh, I see. Unfortunately that's somewhat absurd. But for anyone needing context, losing a survivor is what survivors are 'trying' to make happen. Mostly. If they killer loses the survivor for only a moment, and can't find them quickly, again… on the killer.

    If the things you mentioned were changed, but also not entirely gut a heal speed bonus' would be just that: gutting healing.

    There's more in this thread but yours stuck out as wildly out of touch. Maybe you're new, maybe you're a killer main®, but whatever it is, this is not exactly an ideal change for a PTB. GL in the fog.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,259
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    Instead of skillchecks, have a Trauma Center minigame.