Take a break when sabotage speed changes arrive
It's a good time to take a break from Dead by Daylight when the changes come. Clearly they want slugging to be #1 strategic priority for killers, but I am not going to do that since it's lame and unenjoyable not only for me but for survivors as well. The objective for hooking survivors will be a thing of the past after these changes goes live. Good thing I got my vacation to Dubai booked for a couple of months.
Comments
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Putting on my tinfoil hat, maybe they want more slugging so they can justify basekit UB.
Taking off my tinfoil hat- Yeah no the sabo buff is a bad idea no matter what.
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I'm willing to wait and see.
Supposedly, we need something to get Survivors off of gens, but whenever something like this gets changed, there's a huge outcry. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
That being said, Sabo is something they need to be very careful with. I could easily see this going one of two ways.
A.) The change is ultimately inconsequential and after two weeks, nobody uses Sabo anymore than before. This would not be good, as the changes would amount to nothing.
B.) Sabo becomes the new meta and stays after two weeks, with many Survivors opting to deny the Killers hooks over doing gens fast. This would not be good, as being denied normal gameplay on a consistent basis is not something the game is balanced around. It also makes for a miserable time.
Only time will tell what will happen.
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Have you tried the PTB?
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Its kinda funny how killer players always try to threathen with "I stop playing" if something is not going in their favor instead of trying to adapt first.
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It's weird how we can't discuss a balance issue without it becoming an Us VS Them.
You realize if killer is denied hooks after a long chase they will just slug or ditch the game right?
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I have.
I did not find it to be an issue, likely because of the lack of any sort of matchmaking.
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You made the perfect example of what i said.
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Yes but you're framing it as a one-sided issue.
This effects survivors in the long run too.
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Its fine if you cant argue against my point. though i havent said any word about survivors. Youre just guessing a us vs them here to excuse yourself in before.
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I personally didn't have that big of issues with it on the PTB but that's just me. I'm sure that the changes will either be nerfed or straight up reverted, because everything I've heard is either "it's oppressive" or, like me, "I didn't see it."
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Taking into consideration that whenever a change to something is made that there's always someone who dramatically overacts and believes the game will become too broken or unplayable.
What normally happens is that a PTB comes out, then it's either seen as okay or tweaks are made, with the final result being fair enough. There are rare occasions where things take way too long (Skull Merchant, Hug tech), but the team has been pretty successful and had far more hits than misses, especially recently.
Basically, wait for the PTB, don't throw toys out of the pram, see what it's like then submit feedback.
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I have never understood that annoying phrase "you can't have your cake and eat it too"
What the hell does that even mean?
Who buys a cake not to eat it?
Don't kids eat their cake at their birthday party?
I need clarification on the saying, it makes zero sense to me 😄
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I didn't understand it for a long time until someone explained it to me, sometimes things like that don't make sense to me, idk why.
It basically just means you can't have things both ways. You can't have two mutually exclusive options.
In this scenario, you can't both get Survivors off of gens without giving them something else worthwhile to do.
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Well, no. What they want and what the player base wants is for the game to be fun and enjoyable. I'd rather killers try new builds and such. I'd rather survivors do the same. The fact killers treat every lobby team like they've been convicted of a hate crime is pretty telling. But thats dbd! Adrenaline rushes and ego massages lol.
I've had too many "Sorry for the scummy play. Last game brought 4 flashlights." You literally dont need a reason for the game to be ready to 'take a break from dbd.' Its been here, and if the sabo changes are what gets you to leave, why did you stay recently? Its literally the same.
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I lived through hooks broken by sabo being permanent. You are not going to convince me that this is worse.
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Its kinda funny how killer players always try to threathen with "I stop playing"
Your first line was being accusatory of killer players in general. Stop baiting an argument.
Do you have a reasonable defense of buffing a mechanic that substantially hinders one side and possibly forces them to slug to regain traction?
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It means that if you have one cake, then eat the entire cake, then you no longer have cake anymore because you ate all the cake.
It doesn't mean anything when applied to this forums thread, because the scenario described in this thread isn't mutually exclusive. BHVR can absolutely nerf sabotage, and not give survivors anything as compensation. This whole thing was a famous saying, incorrectly slapped onto this forum thread.
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As it is now, sabo attempts get the sabo'er killed generally. I am looking forward to the new change. Strategy becomes drop the person immediately when seeing someone attempting a sabo. Not that big of a deal.
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Problem is dropping a survivor gives them more wiggle progress when picked up again. Slugging is a risk, especially with most of the M1 cast. Not to mention they can be picked back up while the killer is in a new chase that can take just as long as the first.
Sabotage being the higher risk/reward makes sense, because after a long chase being able to deny the killer a hook adds even more time for others to do gens. Removing more of the risk just creates problems in the long run, for both sides.
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True.
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People take breaks all the time. Don't think anyone would mind if you did. Enjoy your holiday!
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I didn't get it once either.
You can't have you're cake looking pretty on a table and also eat it at the same time. It's not a "have it then eat it" it's more so a "still have the whole thing after or while eating it".1 -
Toolboxes lobby ? Third seal - Knockout - forced hesitation
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I understand on some level the frustration with sabo buffs, but with the infrequency at which people used to complain about sabotage, the degree tonwhich it was useless at normal play, and the history of complaints about various different additions, it sometimes feels as if people are complaining that their opponents have options and aren't just relegated to providing the most basic gameplay loop before handing them the W.
Yeah, the original saying was "you can't eat your cake and still have it"
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no no , you could honestly have a point there . I mean nobody wants this and they are doing it anyways .
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Thats the spirit. Im heavily dislike the constant doomsday talking that happens every single update. Lets see the changes in action first before we call it a day.
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then after dropping survivor slug the rest that how most game turn all.
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I think players having a greater variety of viable options is a good thing. I want this
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you won't like the ripple effects that come from it .
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Look at it literally. If I have a piece of cake in front of me, it is physically there. If I eat the cake, it is not physically there in front of me anymore. It is gone. I cannot "have the cake" because the cake is now "gone." Is it a silly expression? I think so. You could argue that you still "have" the cake if it is in your stomach. You could also argue that what's the point in having cake if it's not going to be eaten. But the point is, it can't be both. It can't exist in two different states at the same moment.
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It's no skin off my back if people can't be mature about their opponents having viable options, and trying to make others miserable as a result. I'm just glad there's the potential for a greater variety of opponent play styles in the wraith streak I'm doing
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IF it comes on Live in the same state as it's in the PTB, I'll just spend my games slugging and bleeding out : easy.
Unbreakable will become META.
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Sabotage was already an option though? This just makes commodious a stronger toolbox since it has enough charges to do both. Like honestly, why use any other toolbox now?
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you know what i mean man. sabotage was an option the same way playing perkless addonless trapper is an option
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Tell that to sabo squads.
But seriously, if they wanted to buff sabotage, why aren't we getting a full toolbox pass to help balance it across the board instead of slapping a massive buff? This isn't going to stop fully optimized gens, and only makes sabo squads stronger than they already are. Not to mention, this doesn't hurt top tiers at all, once again just hurting M1 killers on the low end of the roster.
And we can't ignore this will result in with an uptick in slugging to try and avoid having all the hooks broken in the first place. Killers won't enjoy taking long chases and then being denied hooks constantly.
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having to bring 4 purple wood offerings and coordinate on voice comms to ensure the sabotage plays go off is imo a special circumstance similar to playing naked trapper
I've observed this before and I'll say it again: I have a hard time taking the predictions of a noticeable increase in slugging seriously. Maybe in the first few days of the patch there will be a minor increase, but people threaten to completely ignore hooks every single patch and i've yet to see those threats materialize in the several years I've played the game.
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That's a fine opinion to have, but it doesn't change the fact it's probably going to happen and it's not going to be fun for either side to deal with. And heck, you don't need purple wood on a lot of maps when only 1 hook spawns in a corner and the best strat in high MMR is to run to that corner and let a teammate sabo that hook as it is.
Buffing sabo like this without any considerations to maps and current toolboxes is still a very bad idea, and I think more changes are needed before attempting this. This really just buffs sabo squads and SWF, where as SoloQ might have more slugging in case there's sabo squads because they won't know otherwise and don't want to risk the chance.
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The Alex toolbox changes affects solo too. On the PTB, I was using Alex toolbox with speed addons, and getting multiple sabotages off each game, that forced the killer to drop the survivor. If a survivor waits until the killer has brought the survivor to a hook, then starts the sabotage, then the killer doesn't have enough time left to bring the survivor to a different hook.
And I was purposely taking a hit under the hook, fully aware that the broken PTB sabotage speeds were so fast, that I could recover from the hit, sabotage the hook, AND run away before the killer could hit me again. And it takes so long for the killer to drop a survivor, that I got a head start in running away each time.
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It's funny that bhvr decided to buff hook sabotaging speed but not decrease the time to drop a survivor.
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Feels like the risk was completely taken away then, huh.
And I assume after taking a hit and breaking a hook, you can easily get to the next hook if the killer tries to commit right? I saw that a few times in the PTB as well when I was trying to practice against Vecnas. I didn't even think about Alex Toolbox, Commodius already seems busted for the job alone.
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The killer literally can't commit, because I don't sabotage until the killer is right next to the hook. Killers might be able to find another hook if people sabotage early, but when sabotage speeds are broken like they were on the PTB, survivors can sabotage when the killer is right next to a hook, and it's totally fine.
Also, because the sabotage speeds were so broken, the survivor doesn't even need to worry about taking a wide path around the killer to get to a hook. The survivor can just run right past the killer, and if the survivor gets hit, it doesn't matter because the survivor can easily run to the hook, sabotage it, they run away before the killer can hit them again.
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Me who is a Iron Grasp enjoyer XD
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Sounds about right, I experienced killers trying to go from hook to hook when 2-3 survivors tried sabo plays in the PTB and it didn't go well, eventually turning into a slug game. It's good to know my worries about it weren't unwarranted by your experiences too. Thank you for the insight.
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Who cares just use iron grasp, mad grit or kill the saboer?
Nah rather just stop playing because of a PTB change that isn't even live 😥😥😣2 -
you still have iron graps and agitation to counter act this and welcome to how it felt with stbfl when it worked on m2 unhooking was impossible unless you ran perks like desperate measure but honestly on small map the sabo speed is a good change with how hook density is i personally think that this will only be felt more on big map that has a lot of spread with hooks
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The same reason as to why survivors shouldn't be expected to run decisive strike for tunneling or unbreakable/exponential for slugging constantly, it's taking steps backwards in terms of gameplay. Why should anyone feel like a build is required to run 24/7 because of these mechanics? I have to run lightborn because of that flashbang bug with walls because flashbang/background player being so prevalent now.
Don't we all want variety in our builds? I'd rather they just buff the sabotage perk than just buff toolboxes across the board with nothing else. All this does is promote slugging and de-incentivize the normal gameplay loop because sabo will be far too easy to do.
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Toolboxes have finite charges and on top of that could be mitigated by perks (overwhelming presence, franklin - you CAN bring them, you don't have to).
b-but built to last!!!
Then on top of that you can use Iron Maiden. Also one more survivor messing around the hook / being in the locker is one more survivors that don't do gen, where is the issue?
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Oh good so even more required perks for a baseline issue.
You're also forgetting background player, streetwise, and breakout. Seriously, this isn't an issue that should be covered by running a build to counter it 24/7, you're just proving my point. You can already run these builds in the current game and get value from hook breaking.
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Oh yeah, sure, dedicate ENTIRE build just to maybe sabo in match, then you don't have anything if you are tunneled, you don't have exhaustion perks that could help you in chase, you don't have distorion to prevent killer from seeing you in aura-revealing meta, you don't have any gen progression perks to have any chance against PR+POP meta.
INSANE VALUE
Also who cares, if I bring Bothany + Desperate Measures with medkit and play vs Plague it's "too bad so sad ggs", but if you can see survivor in lobby with toolbox, even thinking about countering it it's apparently HUGE ISSUE.
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But you're asking killers to do that exact thing. That's hypocritical to a T.
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