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Why do killers need basekit counter to anything?
Why killers complain on forum about any survivor buff or playstyle?
Posts about "I'm gonna take a break after saboteur buff because games would be not playable at all" are just silly. Why killers need to have basekit counter to anything and why survivors can't have any viable variety in builds?
If I bring Bothany and Medkit while vs Plague it's "too bad so sad get better lmao".
I don't have basekit counter to camping, tunneling, aura-reading or gen-regression perks.
There are perks specifically to counter Sabo builds or that could help to counter this but killers still complain and refuse to bring them. What is the purpose of such perks then?
Killers literally see if survivors are bringing toolboxes, they can ditch the lobby, they can prepare their build if they want to have some help countering possible item-related plays, but they refuse to and demand basekit stuff or nerfs.
Why are you complaining if perks like Starstruck exists?
Besides plain counters like Agitation, Mad Grid, Iron Grasp, Franklin, this perk counters Sabo builds but also gives advantage besides that. On Midwich/Gideon you cover 2 floors with your terror radius.
Why am I forced to run Distortion in current meta, yet killers can't change anything in their builds?
Best Answer
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Been loving all your anti-killer topics!
Keep up the good work!
salute
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Answers
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Why can't any change bad for either side in the long run be talked about in the context of both parties without it becoming an Us VS Them?
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Are you new to DBD? Just curious because you claim there is no basekit anti tunnel but yet Borrowed Time was literally made basekit over 2 years ago. Did you play before then? When there was actually no basekit anti tunnel. It was miserable.
This may seem crazy but killer is the power role. Killers have 4 perks slots, survivors have up to 16 if they are playing with friends or coordinating in the pre lobby chat. Killer perks SHOULD be stronger.
Starstruck is also abysmally easy to counter. All you have to do is hold forward. It’s pretty simple. Also you do have Distortion basekit, they’re called lockers. Completely negates aura reading.29 -
We should remove all basekit counters.
No more unhook BT, no more anti-facecamp, let's remove vaccines and sprays from Nemesis and Wesker.
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You forgot the anti facecamp mechanic and anti 3 gen .
Not bad changes but definitely made the game harder
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Why don't you play some killer for a change and find out I don't know you from a can of paint but geez bro you whine about killer this killer that CONSTANTLY
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Aww 🥰
Have a nice day bestie, wish you many hatch escapes or 4k's
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Thanks - I'll get some key escapes in your honor!
>:3
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But… camping, tunnelling, gen regression, and aura perks do have some form of base kit counter play.
This Us vs Them stuff is getting annoying. We don’t need an eye for eye for every single balance change.
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Okay, sure. Killers can run agitation and starstruck to counter sabo.
Then another survivor uses flash bang or BGP and you need Lightborn to counter that reliably
Then another survivor is a medic and another a gen jockey and suddenly you need Franklin's
And now you've got 3 perks dedicated to countering survivor perks. And considering that takes up 3-8 of the 16 survivor perk slots, so they can still run the plot twist pallets or 4 DHs and DSs? It's awful design.
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From what I've seen some survivors expect killers to run agitation,lightborn,Fire Up, and Stbfl. To counter usually uncounterable cases. Congrats you run all that to counter what a survivor can do with 2 perks probably. While being the 1 killer against 4 different survivors.
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And I am forced to run DS, Distortion, Unbreakable and Off the Record
or
I can just play with perks that I want, and in case that killer decides to slug / tunnel, use resources that I have. If I got outplayed, then gg and let's go to the next match.
Those perks aren't necessary, killers can use their common sense and skill in games.
If I bring Sprint Burst, you aren't forced to bring Mindbreaker or some Exhaustion addon.
Would it help you? Yes. Are you forced to bring it because it's uncounterable and all your future games are miserable? No.5 -
Reiterate to my point that the killer is the 1 player in this situation. If you run all that you drastically improve your survivability. Even though you don't have to with base BT and Anti camp (hey look basekit counters). (Sometimes enough to outright win if the killer spends to much effort on tunneling) in the case of the 1. Your running agi because a survivor can just sabo a hook and get rid of your one chance at pressuring the team. Your running fire up and lightborn because bgp and flashbang can again deny your pressure tool. Your running stbfl because survivors can just take hits and sabo (soon to be even faster if ptb goes live) if a survivor is getting tunneled with all their perks they are giving their team a lot of time (even if they dont have them on some maps they can still buy enough time with the basekit buffs to win). I started in 2017 when we didn't have this. A killer could just hit you right off hook.But on the other side, If the killer has to deal with all these stalls when trying to play fairly. What do you think they'll default to? Another boring playstyle noone likes (just slugging for pressure) do we want to incentive healthy play via splitting hooks or not? That's why even as a 50-50 I know how these changes can force a killer into a playstyle noone likes. Because sometimes we give them no other option.
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Ah yes, propagating the Us vs Them divide in this community. Lovely! 🥰
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To some, killer buffs equal survivor nerfs and survivor buffs equal killer nerfs. They simply cannot distinguish the two.
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lmao
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😊 This should help!
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They are silly but the sentiment is understandable. I'm all for more build variety but not at the cost of my own fun, which tends to happen when anti-hook is strong.
Sidenote: survivors do have basekit counters to camping and tunneling. The anti-facecamp system works perfectly pre-endgame, and basekit BT guarantees you get to any loop of your choice within 44m.
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I’m a killer main and I am not concerned about this buff in the least 🤷🏼♂️ lol
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Because the game should not be balanced around taking a perk when one side has no idea what the other side is bringing.
The same goes for tunneling. I don't think the game should balanced around the idea that survivors are taking anti-tunnel perks. Anti-tunnel should just be built into the base game mechanics. I don't think the game should be balanced around killers taking slowdown perks, the slowdown should just be built into the base game mechanics.
The reason that, for both sides, you only ever see the same dozen or so perks, is because the game is balanced around taking those perks. And when you don't, it feels really bad when the other side realizes it and exploits that you aren't taking those perks.
They need to do, again for both sides, what they do for killer addons that feel "required" they need to nerf/rework the addons and buff the basekit. In this case, they need to nerf/rework the perks and buff the basekit.
Rework or nerf perks on the survivor side like:
- Off the Record
- Decisive Strike
- Borrowed Time
- Dead Hard
- MFT
Make the basekit BT last longer, let it instead of just give endurance, it just makes the survivor invisible, make no noise, and have no collision or hitbox. So they can just get away from the killer and it becomes IMPOSSIBLE to tunnel them. Give basekit kindred, so survivors know what is happening and if the killer is proxy camping or has left the hook, knowing a safe unhook is now possible.
Rework or nerf perks on the killer side like:
- Deadlock
- Pain resonance
- Pop goes the weasel
- Grim Embrace
- Corrupt Intervention
Make it so killers basekit have:
- 10% gen kick regression
- 200% base regression
- 30 second basekit corrupt
- 30 second basekit corrupt on hex totems.
Then from there we can start seeing what things emerge. Maybe after that, everything is fine, and we start seeing real variety. Or, maybe some new dominate unfun strategy emerges, maybe killers start to slug survivors into oblivion, so then we go back and do the same thing, nerf/rework the perks, and do something basekit to deal with the mechanic. Maybe survivors start brining 4 cracked toolboxes with BNPs and gens start flying too much, so we start reworking and nerfing those.
Perks should never feel required, the game should be balanced in such a way that both sides have a 50% win rate if nobody takes any perks or addons. Perks and addons should be just that PERKS and ADDONS not REQUIREMENTS. They should do fun unique things, and change playstyles and strategies. But right now, because the game is balanced around these dozen or so perks on both sides, we never get to see any fun strategies like, maybe a killer does a hoarder/anti-item build that creates some interesting strategies. Maybe survivors start using perks that allow them to quickly heal themselves and each other, and start body blocking with perks like Mettle of Man. Maybe survivors start playing stealth builds that hide their scratch marks a pools of blood from the killer, making it harder for the killer to find them. Maybe then you'll see killers bring things like bloodhound, to help better track those sneaky survivors.
Basically, we need to deal with these perks that are required, so we can start seeing real fun and variety.
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You're not forced to do anything. But I will say this. Ever since I started playing this game a year or 2 ago survivors have been getting extremely OP perks only for them to get nerfed later while killer perks just get nerfed. They haven't nerfed any genrush builds but they nerfed killer regression hard with the pop and pain res nerf. They let survivors have buckle up + FTP for way too long. Made for this + hope was just ridiculous. I can't think of a single killer perk combination that's as nasty by comparison, unless you have survivors in a game that won't cleanse hexes. So yeah, when a survivor perk that doesn't need a buff gets a buff it pisses people off. Go play killer and maybe you'd actually understand.
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In the case of sabotage it should be obvious. I mean, the entire game is built around the idea of the killer finding, chasing and hooking survivors to progress. If sabotage becomes less risky and more consistent, then basically that means that the killer will no longer be able to do their objective even after doing the bulk of the work, which is finding and chasing a survivor.
We are talking about something that is easily recreatable and does not take any effort nor does it pose a risk on the PTB. How else is the killer meant to progress? Slugging everyone? I thought we didn't like that but sure, I guess I can do that. Other than that, the killer has literally no way to progress the game, which means that no matter how good they are, they can easily be beaten by any group of survivors that pays attention or uses the right perks.
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I have never agreed with something so strongly since this post. All of this is a great idea together. I'll mull over it a bit to think of any potential issues that may arise, but honestly for the sake of perk variety this is probably the best direction to go.
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