5 gens popped in 4 minutes with no slow down

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Akeeno
Akeeno Member Posts: 57

it was in chaos shuffle, on rpd. found survivor and injured them, 1st gen popped

downed survivor and hooked, 2 gen

look for survivors they unhook in my face, so i tunnel. get the hook 3rd gen pops

look for survivors, they unhook again, i go for second survivor , 1st survivor body blocks with endurance, im forced to tunnel again, catch and sacrified them, 4th gen pops

patrol last gens and last one is 99, boom 5 gens, catch survivor and but the nearest hook is by exit gate. i patrol exit gate and hook

entire match 6 minutes

survivors get the unhook and make it to other exit gate by bodyblocking me, and escape

then the usual trash talk.

so my point is that at the high level of dbd gens fly like theres no tommorow, and pop and pain res are getting nerfed.

i have 4000 hours in dbd, killer main, was using slinger, minimal missed shots, bad rng perks, i dont think this is balanced, for matches to end quickly without gen perks

Comments

  • tjt85
    tjt85 Member Posts: 766
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    I've had some rough Killer games on Chaos Shuffle, too. Barely won any trials and the one that I did, they were uncoordinated Solo Q Survivors that had 3 genned and / or I also got lucky with a regression perk (Call of Brine). As an average Killer, I can't seem to get downs and hooks quickly enough to generate the pressure needed to get Survivors off the gens. A good Billy / Blight / Nurse probably isn't struggling so much, but Killers with limited mobility are at a definite disadvantage in this mode.

    I know I'm not the only one, because it's been a similar story in my Survivor games with some Killers clearly struggling quite a bit. Maybe a case could be made to up the base regression from kicking a gen a little? No more gen tapping has helped in a 3 gen situation against Solo Q, but 5% doesn't do a lot on its own.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 2,005
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    That was SWF. If you played against 4 soloQ players, you would get your 4k at 3 gens. The core balance issue here is SWF, not gen speeds.

  • Wiccamanplays
    Wiccamanplays Member Posts: 130
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    I played Myers in Chaos Shuffle the other day because I had a daily and it had been a while since I'd tried him. 4 gens popped before I got tier 3 and I was using addons that speed up Evil Within gain. This is obviously not a problem that affects all Killers equally (all aura-read Nurses don't mind losing slowdown), but the lowest echelons of Killer and those that require some degree of setup suffer so badly when you can't use the strongest perks. I hope BHVR gains some insights about this from the Chaos Shuffle data, but the mode's very randomness probably precludes that.

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,230
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    Rng can play alot into that as well don't forget that, I personally don't think rpd is a good map for slinger unless you're lucky enough to catch a survivor in a open hallway or the alleyway most of the trial is going to be spent following survivors in and out different rooms as a 110 killer , thats really not a favorable set up with all the LOS blockers for a killer like slinger , not saying the survivors weren't ultra focused on gens or anything just maybe if you were a different killer you would've had a different outcome, I'd chalk it up to bad luck more than I would it being an unbalance, you're playing chaos shuffle without a real build and a killer on a map that doesn't favor his ability.

  • Chaosrider
    Chaosrider Member Posts: 489
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    Calling out a skill issue.

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 521
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    I don't think this was necessarily a skill issue but the wrong thing may be being blamed here. First the map was RPD a map with some of the most fixed gen spawns in the game that has a habit of spawning survivors literally on top of gens that combination leads to multiple gens getting 15-20% progress before you can even find anyone depending on spawns.

    Then you're deathslinger, you may be a good deathslinger but you're still slinger and at the end of the day it's a killer with absolutely no 4v1 pressure meaning as long as survivors work on gens far from you they're never really in any danger. Like there's some killers like Cenobite that this would never happen to because they HAVE to respect the cube and that takes them off gens

    So it was an unfortunate combination of bad map with a killer that exacerbate the problems of that map. I'm not really sure how you fix it because maps need to be smaller for low mobility killers but also it increases the likelihood of survivors spawning on gens. The answer isn't increasing gen times because making survivors have to sit on a gen fo over a minute and a half even without regression would be a miserable experience.

    Honestly I feel like they would have to retool every killer to have some sort of 4v1 pressure but there's no way BHVR would have time for that with their release schedule. Maybe move survivor spawn points closer to the killer but survivors hate being in chase before they even know what's going on so idk. With so many maps and so many killers these things were bound to happen eventually.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
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    Pinhead, Pig, Unknown have 4v1 tools and killers dont like it because they dont have insane chase power. They're more than just M1 on Gen hoping teammates hold Blight & Nurse, Wesker long enough.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,589
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    I don't think anything he described had to do with especially getting screwed by RNG bar the map and even that doesn't explain the gen speeds entirely. You could even put zero perks on him with a bad map at his skill in deathslinger and gens shouldn't be going like that if the game was balanced well.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,589
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    " have 4v1 tools and killers dont like it because they dont have insane chase power"

    Are you saying that killer players on average don't like killers that focus their strengths on macro play but are weaker in 1v1?

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
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    We already have a topic about Unknown isnt worth to play because his M2 is not Huntress hatchet with blast radius.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,589
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    Well firstly, that statement is a completely different point than what I asked or what you we're saying.

    Second, Unknown is extremely popular as a killer. So whether people are saying that or not isn't backed up by what we actually see.

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,230
    edited May 28
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    He said the gens were done in 4 minutes and some change basically which isn't really that insane, I would have to see the specific match video he's speaking about to know for sure but I would be willing to bet he over committed to a chase in a area where gens were already done, not only that but he had a 2k sealed with a chance at more and they got the unhook and bodyblocked out , without seeing a video we can't really do anything but assume what could've happened I will say even good killers make mistakes too and sometimes a small mistake can cost you big and that's really something that both roles deal with

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,735
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    To be fair, this sounds like some astronomically bad luck.

    Bad perks, bad map, bad RNG AND the Survivors got good perks.

    Id actually really like to see the match

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,426
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    I would LOVE to run no slowdowns in normal matches, but I actually find RPD to be the most manageable in terms of gen defense than other maps, especially the large maps. Gens fly like crazy when fully optimized on a level playing field, and I can slam them out with my usual build in normal matches pretty quickly. Only issue is if other survivors can loop.

    In Chaos Shuffle though, it's highlighted that if survivors are halfway decent, gens are manageable and killers should have at least 1 slowdown. I love the mode, don't get me wrong I think it's the best thing to come out for DBD in ages, but the problems with the game are highlighted on both sides and explains why there's a meta in normal matches.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
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    I didnt say Unknown is no popular, just saying there are complains about how Unknown being mediocre because he's not A+ tier strength in chase.

    And my point was killers dont like it because those killers dont have insane chase power.

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 581
    edited May 28
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    Reminds me of a Wesker match I had recently with some admittedly pretty good survivors. I had no slowdown but pretty consistent hooks and was able to keep pace up to a 10 Hook 2k, which I consider to be a good result all things considered.

    The weird thing is one of the dead Fengs messaged me afterwards to say "ggez" which felt kinda wild to hear given she died in endgame after her teammates broke my Haunted Grounds when I was 5 feet away from her.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,735
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    Ye.

    I had a match as Billy last night…I am not good with Billy.

    However, I think I went into the End-Game with like, 3 hooks? They gave me another 6 and 2 Kills. Sometimes people just do it to themselves.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,182
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    Its not SWF vs solo. It is simply efficiency. I play exclusively solo queue when i play survivor. The amount of times that i get hooked, and i see someone crouching in a corner of the map, someone doing a chest, and another "hiding" nearby to immediately unhook me before the killer has a chance to blink is astounding.

    If survivors just "did gens" in solo queue, those matches are a breeze for me when they happen, but they are rare.

    The SWF illusion is that you can pick your teammates, so you know that they are usually going to be doing something useful.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,589
    edited May 28
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    Right, and that's where I was getting at. I disagree with that sentiment.

    Killer players are totally fine with a weak chase power if they have built in slow down, map mobility ect for a strong macro rather than micro play (i personally even prefer these killers). The reason we don't tend to see people happy with this is because most the "macro" killers are generally weak overall, not because because people don't like it.

    These killers tend to do especially well against unorganized groups, aka solo queue. This leads to them have a higher kill rate against bad players and most the game is bad players. This artificially inflated kill rate prevents them from being made strong enough against actually good players. Hence their less than stellar reception because they aren't good against good players typically.

    Nothing to do with a lack of insane chase power.

  • Royval
    Royval Member Posts: 323
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    the game is survivor sided it’s been that way since day 1! Look at the old gameplay ffs. why don’t killers have basekit pain res and pop? Survivors can get basekit bt, unbreakable? Stop the fake narrative.

  • Royval
    Royval Member Posts: 323
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    so what this guy said means they played better or are their objective way easier? Enlighten me.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    The game is currently "sweat sided", aka whichever side stacks their loadout the most and plays the most efficiently will generally have the advantage.

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 954
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    Theoretically, in an absolutely ideal scenario in regards to generator efficiency, 4 survivors split up around the map with Hyperfocus + Stakeout + Toolbox can do all 5 generators and open the gates in a little less than 2 minutes. That includes if the killer is chasing one survivor in that time.

    So hey, be thankful your match lasted so long!

    But yeah, it can be frustrating.
    The current game is 'balanced' around the average survivor groups generator efficiency, without any (realistically) imposed minimum or maximum timeframes for objectives. This means, depending on the groups overall efficiency, games can easily fluctuate between not having a single generator get done in a match, to all five flying before you can do anything as a killer.

    This has been a thing since the game's inception, so I don't expect it to change anytime soon.

    There's even plenty of arguments not to change it away from the current structure, because it allows survivors to be as lax or try-hard as they like (catering to both casual and experienced players), encourages each side to strive to be more efficient in higher levels since there's no imposed limits, and provides just enough frustration for each side at each extreme that provokes an emotional response from both sides.

    The latter of the reasons is important, since the longevity of any game is often tied to the players emotional attachment to said game. Getting players just frustrated enough to want to be involved more in the game and improve in it more without repelling them entirely is a bit of an art in a way. DBD actually does pretty well in that regard.

  • Nick
    Nick Member Posts: 1,224
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    The survivors objective is much faster than yours. There is no reward for hooking, unless you use Pain Res or Pop. You should be rewarded for getting downs. No one likes bringing gen defence, since the effect is quite boring. But its necessary if you want consistent results, especially when going for many chases and limiting focussing survivors out of the trial (that will always be the best gen defence)

  • Lost_Boy
    Lost_Boy Member Posts: 570
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    Can't really base balance off chaos shuffle, especially if you were playing against a SWF using a killer that lacks map pressure without certain perks. Some killers absolutely dominate chaos shuffle like Billy and other really struggle with map pressure because everyone is pre running from gens as soon as they get a terror radius.

    Also if every game was like that you would have a case, but it's not so just think about how a nerf to gen speeds would effect random solo players. They would literally never win a game.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 2,005
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    Except they have comms, which give them coordination and huge information sharing soloQ has no access to. SoloQ doesn't even have a simple in-game text chat.

  • Marioneo
    Marioneo Member Posts: 756
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    RPD is an unbalanced mess with 4 God pallets and very low mindgame chance on most pallets since you can always track the killer

  • Marioneo
    Marioneo Member Posts: 756
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    very true i have played 60 matches and i have yet to not see a instaheal/bnp in a match

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 281
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    This was close to what I saw last night when I was playing in the mode. In the 10 matches I did, I got a total of 2 kills. A lot of the matches were done really fast even when I was playing hit and run and leaving chases to look at gens. I have over 1400hrs in the game and if you looked at my matches last night you would thought I had 100hr. Honestly, I still don't understand and get the hype around the random perk mode. Almost even the perk I got as killer was completely useless 90% of the time. If anything this mode has shown me that the only good perks killer has are info and slowdown. The rest are trash imo.

  • Katzengott
    Katzengott Member Posts: 1,205
    edited May 29
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    I don't think that's a Chaos Shuffle nor a SWFs problem, it just shows what MMR did to the game. Good players are doing the objective as efficient as possible. Which means survivors splitting up on gens and killers tunnel camp. They don't even need to be SWFs, good solos with gamesense and teamperks can genrush even harder in my exp, as they're not as altruistic.

  • Header
    Header Member Posts: 308
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    My chaos shuffle games are either a 4K at 3 gens or all gens are done when I get my 4th hook

  • Ebonbane2000
    Ebonbane2000 Member Posts: 159
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    Do you think it would have played out different if instead of chasing first hook for (probably) 90+ seconds, you cut chase and did a gen sweep after 30 seconds?

  • tjt85
    tjt85 Member Posts: 766
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    With my Legion, I've been running the Fuming Mix tape and Susie's Mix tape add-ons for some guaranteed Slow down and information. You could give those add-on a try if you haven't already yet. But even with those equipped, I've found it's still an up hill battle to win in this mode with Legion.

    I've also discovered a new found appreciation for Stolen Sketch Book and I'll put that on instead of Susie's if I see a lobby full of beamers.

    The only Killer I've done well with is Billy, but I suspect that's mostly because he's strong enough to win a lot of trials with no perks equipped at all.

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 281
    edited May 29
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    I wish I could play and enjoy Billy but his controls make me furious. He the only killer in the game that makes me angry when Im play him bc of how he controls. I may try those addons on legion but honestly, I just feel any low-tier killer isn't going to be fun in this mode. Most likely why I dislike it so much bc I mostly only like playing B and C-tier killers.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,735
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    To be honest, that just sounds like RNG on perks. Sometimes you get good perks and your opponents don't, other times it's the opposite

  • Perrin3088
    Perrin3088 Member Posts: 6
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    "Forced to tunnel" any good killer will be watching gens as they tunnel.

    Sounds like you've developed a crutch based on reliance to your slowdown perks and forgot about your peripherals.

    Some of the best tactics you can use is being aware of where people are, pretending you don't see them, and peel mid-chase to hit a gen worker that still thinks you're mid chase.

    Tunneling is never required, and is actually the best way to get gens popped because you're avoiding slowdown. The only way Tunneling let's you succeed is if the survivors are too busy being altruistic or trying to bully.

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 899
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    I would really like to see the match because there are obvious gaps in your description here where minutes upon minutes flew by without it really being apparent what you and they did. I would also like to point out that despite all of what you are describing here (break-neck gen efficiency, coordinated plays, bad perks, challenging map), you almost still got a tie, and most likely could have gotten it because if your hook is close to an unopened gate and they made it all the way to the other, as Slinger chances are there was something you could have done to get someone. Tunnelling and camping can allow even a perkless, low-tier killer to get at least 2 kills in most scenarios, and while that may not feel like a draw to the killer player, it simply is, and as long as this is possible they simply cannot change gen times. It would have to go along with nerfs to camping and tunnelling, otherwise they would be sure-fire ways to 4k every match (which they already are in most matches as it is).

    I will say that I think one great way to go about prolonging matches would be to randomize gen spawns more and to perhaps even remove the headlights from them, such that they are more difficult to find. Indoor maps are consistently the most killer-sided in the game statistically, for which there are various reasons but major part is absolutely the decreased gen efficiency because it is difficult for survivors to figure out where gens are - they spend a lot more time looking for gens, identifying gen spreads, don't know which gens other survivors are doing, hell, have trouble finding their gens again after leaving them, all of which also makes regression stronger.

    On a more general note, I wonder what your winrate as a 4000-hour killer main is, and whether given your general experience with the game you really think it would be necessary to nerf gen speeds because this one time a (chaos mode) match ended quickly and you barely didn't manage to get two kills. My wager is that you win 80-90% of your matches as it is, or certainly that you could if you simply wanted to (i. e. were to camp, tunnel, slug, etc. with a vengeance). You could probably even go on winstreaks of dozens of matches. While big part of the reason for that is the matchmaking system, that simply is the reality of the game, as long as they are not reconsidering on the matchmaking and make it more strict, I cannot help but feel complaints like this are always tinged with entitlement of wanting to win the lost/tied matches too that experienced killers get once in a blue moon. If people were actually looking for fair, balanced, competitive gameplay, the thing they would first and foremost be complaining about is the matchmaking that most of the time creates lopsided matches, so much so that good killer players barely or actually never lose, can go on winstreaks of hundreds if not thousands of matches in a row, have winrates of 99.X%, do challenges where they go on winstreaks while going perkless and add-onless, being AFK for some time at the start of the match, refrain from camping and tunnelling, 4k at 3+ gens left, and the like. It's all been done various times.