Why killers can no longer take trials hostage but survivors can?

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This is something that has been talked about for years and now with the introduction of mechanics to avoid certain types of strategies that are not fun, there is no reason for this to continue happening.

I'm talking about the survivors who are hidden at the end of the game (the last two survivors precisely) and this is something they should keep an eye on.

the 3-gen situation needed to go, we all agree with this, but survivors hiding at the end of the game for 5 minutes or more while you just walk around the map like a Nemesis zombie isn't fun either.

Yes, I know stealth is a huge essential to Survivor gameplay but I feel like if a Survivor isn't progressing the game in any way, they should be punished for it. (These survivors are already screwing the team).

This could be a mechanic exclusive to the last two survivors because I understand their perspectives in a certain way. When the game is lost to the last survivors, a situation is created which if any of them wants to survive, your teammate has to be found first if you want any chance of escaping. This makes late-game stealth more essential but I also know how frustrating it is from the killer's perspective to do nothing while others are hiding.

Yes, I just had a match where the survivors were hiding for so long that I even reincarnated…

Comments

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,300
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    Just record it and report the survivors its against the game rules since they just don't participate in gameplay, if they waste a lot of your time they will get punished.

    Now mechanic wise we could get something but it might be a while

  • For_The_People
    For_The_People Member Posts: 227
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    I have noticed that some killers set their ‘win’ standard as 4K and sometimes I’ve heard some even feeling affronted at a gen being done.

    I mean that is fair enough, I also set my own standards in the game as a survivor - if I can get value out of my perks, I feel happy, or if I could help a teammate during a pivotal moment etc.

    I do think having such a high bar for ‘win’ can lead to frustration and might be a little too exhausting but that’s just me - I’ve never had the level of skill to do win streaks let alone give myself higher bars for win lol

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 563
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    Both killers and surviors can drag the game out

    Killers with slugging for the 4k

    Last 2 survivors hiding

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,606
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    Hiding survivors in general are pretty strong if done right.

    There is still nothing a killer can do against survivors that decide to do nothing and are prepped against any form of aura reading.

    Its rare but results in games that last incredibly long without anything really happening.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 1,388
    edited June 9
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    It would help to understand how you're approaching this issue. The devs have given a huge number of info perks over the past couple years, so instead of just having BBQ as the only option, there are a ton more perks available now for finding survivors.

    What perks are you running here?

    Any time I see this issue, I can only picture someone with quad slowdown running around blind and then posting for the devs to fix it. If people aren't going to use the tools the devs give them, then there's really nothing more they can do to help you. That may not apply to you specifically, but there are absolutely people who this does apply to here.

    Post edited by AmpersandUnderscore on
  • Nick
    Nick Member Posts: 1,222
    edited June 9
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    There should be some killer instinct revealing the survivors after not getting X amount of objective/altruism points in X amount of time when there are 2 survivors left. Sometimes I just start watching a video and give up. There's nothing more boring than 2 survivors not doing anything in a clearly won game

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,292
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    I don't think huntress needed changes in the beginning. She was most balanced killer before her buffs.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 2,005
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    SURVIVOR, by definition, is someone who SURVIVES. So of course they do the only thing they need to - they SURVIVE. There is nothing to report here.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 2,005
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    I like how the community here is 100% killer-biased. Everyone is proposing ways to punish the survivors, but nobody has yet proposed to implement some kind of come-back mechanic for survivors, so that they at least can hope to fix the remaining gens instead of waiting for the hatch. How about boosting the gen repair speeds for every dead teammate? This way there would be more incentive to actually try and finish the gens, instead of viewing it as a lost cause. But nooo, we need to punish those survivors even more than they are already punished by the game! Way to go there, right next to the complaints about "why are all survivors giving up all of a sudden?"

  • Neprašheart
    Neprašheart Member Posts: 426
    edited June 9
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    That is indeed how it usually is.
    I have yet to play a match with the killer running less than three generator slowdowns, plus BBQ.

    • Nobody ever uses Whispers, Spies From The Shadows, A Nurse's Calling, (…) anymore. It's all about generator slowdowns, which I can understand if the killer keeps on facing SWF premades, but those are non-existant during the day, yet, the slowdowns are still present.

      Unfortunately, most players seem be seeking action ASAP by refusing to hide and instead wanna run the killer for X generators 24/7. They can't calm down, and do hurt the team by doing so while the killer is benefiting from it while having fun.
      However, the moment the killer encounters those hiding survivors, they do become clueless, not knowing what to do.. So they just run back and forth in-between the generators, lacking the patience to wait a little or explore the areas near the generators.


    Furthermore, those suggestions about having the survivor revealed.. Why?
    If it's because looking for the survivors is boring, then.. Then they can surely run some of the aura reading perks or perks helping them find the survivors. At that point, it is of no issue, without a doubt.

    Now, to not run out of the topic, I do agree with OP more or less.
    The survivors MUST BE progressing the match in at least some way - Be it by cleansing the totems, healing themselves, adding even by 4% repair progression to the generators before going to hiding. If they're not, then.. That's what I see as unsportsmanlike, refusing to participate in normal gameplay.
    The same, however, could be said about the killer by not going out of their way to find the survivors and instead only going from one to another generator, you know? It goes both ways, and so all of the players involved are then those who're playing or participating in the unsportsmanlike gameplay behavior.

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 261
    edited June 9
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    Players have been asking for this for years, but to my knowledge BHVR has never addressed it. I don't have hope that they ever will.

  • HexHuntressThighs
    HexHuntressThighs Member Posts: 834
    edited June 9
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    And I know that she did need the changes because I played her for hundred of hours. One of the only 2 killers that has to find poorly placed lockers to reload. Has her power completely gutted by indoor maps and map clutter. Has the third lowest kill rate in the game in general MMR and Top 5%.

    The simple fact is she does not meet the 60% kill rate and as a result needs buffs to meet that target.

    Post edited by HexHuntressThighs on
  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 2,005
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    Finishing gens when there are only 2 survivors left and more than 1 gen left is impossible, but waiting for your teammate to die and then take the hatch or the gates is probable, so they are doing what is the most likely to lead them to the escape. Survivors are not a single organism with one nerve system, however hard you may try to dehumanize them, dear killer main, every survivor plays for themselves and has their own strategy.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,451
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    well last 2 survivors hiding endlessly without participating in the intended gameplay flow is considered taking the game hostage and is bannable. i don't make the rules, even though i heavily agree with this one.

    and this defense of yours is enough evidence that hatch is a faulty game design.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 2,005
    edited June 9
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    Well, if you had ever played soloQ survivor, you would've known why players do it. They do it because it's the only realistic way to escape, and not because they are evil and want to "take the game hostage". The faulty game design here is not the hatch, but the absence of any kind of come-back mechanic for survivors, making a 2v1 a lost game if not for the hatch. Might as well just end the game after the second survivor dies then.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,719
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    I've been saying this for years.

  • VantablackPharaoh91
    VantablackPharaoh91 Member Posts: 252
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    After this chapter? Oh hell nah it's not in debate anymore.

    Anyway they do desperately need to fix the way Survivors can take the endgame hostage like this or cancel out achievements like Evil Incarnate. It's kinda unfair and it's gotten to the point that if I see this as Surv, I give myself up on principle.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,451
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    i play soloq as well but i never play for hatch. in fact, i purposefully avoid that phase of the match because it's just so boring and pointless (unless i'm running a looting build and got a good item) and i hate stealthy playstyle i have no patience for that.

    2v1s can be winnable depending on the number of gens left, though yes you can't expect to win a 2v1 at 3+ gens. especially after introduction of gen kick limit stealth repairing is stronger than you ever imagine, since you still think 2v1s are mission impossible. if survivors both actually try and play their cards right there is a good chance at least 1 of them gets out.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 2,005
    edited June 9
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    If you are standing in front of a locker with a survivor inside, YOU are the one holding the game hostage, since you can end the situation any time you want by grabbing the survivor and hooking him. For survivor leaving the locker is a sure death, so they are trying to, being a SURVIVOR, to SURVIVE, and you are going out of your way refusing to participate in the regular gameplay.

    After this chapter? Oh hell nah it's not in debate anymore.

    60% kill rate being the official target has been here for a while, so it's not for a debate for a long time: the devs are officially in favor of killers. Because if 60% kill rate is not killer sided, then I don't know what is.

  • VantablackPharaoh91
    VantablackPharaoh91 Member Posts: 252
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    The Devs just nerfed regression perks, all of them, at the same time as they gave Survivors a generator perk (albeit a weak one), buffed a perk that makes all gens 80 seconds (albeit a perk that breaks you for using it) and can be done in less time than one generator AND sped up, and they also gave Sabotaging a massive buff nobody asked for and that it didn't even need to make hooking even harder… at the same time as we have a map where there are only two hooks on one level of it, promoting bleed-out playstyles. Excuse me if it looks like that is a "Devs favor Survivors, or at least this patch does" thing. Because it really does.

    Also the Devs have stated they want Killers to be the power role. They want the game to be slightly Killer-sided, that doesn't mean they favor Killers and don't keep helping Survivor more than is probably fair. The kill rate being 60% is intended and not unbalanced because remember, SWFs exist and they constantly especially a 4stack hit the 40% winrate… and there are still a few Killers that barely eke out above that rate at all. And a reminder, as Chaos Shuffle and Lights Out showed, when perks and items are removed… then yeah, that's about where the killrate balances - two dead, two alive.

    Isn't that arguably what we want? Killers strong basekit, but their perks weaker? Don't we WANT all Killers to be viable at all levels of play so me and my SWF aren't just seeing Nurses and Blights with four slowdown every round after a point? I'm confused and judging by your other comments here it looks really bad faith of you to make all these statements.

  • Marioneo
    Marioneo Member Posts: 746
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    i would enjoy that the game focuses to hard on teamwork to win i wanna sacrifice and beat my team to win

    in the gamemode my little oni oni could periodically see survivors auras maybe make that basekit when 2 survs remain? Or just make egc activate after a time

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,719
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    That's called not even trying. I could run a killer for 2 gens while my teammate finished them. But that's not what most people do. They just give up and never get good, and then demand that the game be balanced around their entitled attitude. This is a team game. Your last statement is a total cop out and a detriment to the game.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,719
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    No, she was pretty weak. All the "Cross-map shots!" YouTube content muddies that reality.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,291
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    the post is talking about two survivors hiding for +10-20 minutes hiding. often by going into lockers or hiding behind some obscure rock/obstacle. you can't slug if you cannot find anyone and there is no way to start the EGC.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 2,005
    edited June 10
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    Please, provide some recorded gameplay where you run the killer for 2 whole gens in 2v1 (3 minutes) on a map with spent pallets, I'm genuinely interested.

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,292
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    Most huntress mains I seen have said she didn't need changes. She definetely should not been priority over many other weaker killers like myers and freddy. Huntress is hard killer that's why lower kill rate than average and I think it's not always good to balance around specific kill rate. Reason for buffs was yes that and they probably wanted to make her easier for casual players. But then they should really buff nurse now.

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,292
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    Hard to play does not make killer weak. We could say nurse is weakest killer because lowest kill rate.

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 4,250
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    Take the one mechanic that worked in VHS:

    If the killer and the survivors aren't interacting for too long (say 5 minutes) their auras are revealed to each-other to remedy the problem.

  • HexHuntressThighs
    HexHuntressThighs Member Posts: 834
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    That Nurse statement is very disingenuous for many reason because Nurse has a lo kill rate at general MMR and a High kill rate at High MMR proving she is tough for new people but insanely overpowered for the people who know how to play her.

    Huntress has a low kill rate at general MMR AND High MMR. So they are not at all comparable. And 95% of these “Huntress mains” who say she didn’t need any changes are people pretending to be Huntress mains.

    CoCo thought the changes were needed but should’ve been toned back a bit. Scott said it was strange but nothing crazy. True said they were fine. Spooky said they should be toned down a bit but should be kept. Those creators play her at high MMR and know that she needed the changes.

    And while yes other killers absolutely needed changes more like Freddy and Michael, a simple number tweak that takes all of a few days to implement and test didn’t take any time away from other killers. On top of her being the most played free killer so they want her to feel good for new people.