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If people hate Skull Merchant so much, then why don't they hate Vecna?

It's literally the same gameplay. (Press button to "outplay" your opponents.) Never actually feels like you're getting outplayed by a Vecna, always just feels like it's their power giving them free hits by just pressing a button, just like Skull Merchant. So that leads me to ask why don't people have the same hatred for Vecna that they do for Merchant? Because I personally do not enjoy gameplay against any killer that boils down to minimum effort maximum reward.

Comments

  • alpha5
    alpha5 Member Posts: 364

    I do. In some ways Vecna is worse than current SM.

  • Zakon05
    Zakon05 Member Posts: 218

    Mage Hand is definitely a little too good right now.

    I don't know why they didn't just make the version which breaks pallets for him the baseline version. That anniversary power is fun and having it as a killer power would be neat. It would still lead to some guaranteed hits, but only on dropped pallets.

    The current version is absurdly hard to balance. Both picking up pallets and blocking them from being dropped for a short time have such a thin margin for balance between "guaranteed hit for Vecna" and "totally useless if not actively detrimental for Vecna"

    On the PTB it was the latter, and now it's the former.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 3,379

    I keep having this bizarre experience where as much as people hate on Skull Merchant, she is almost always the killer to break my crap game streaks....

    Purely coincidence, but after game after game of bad luck, sweaty killers, idiot team mates, trash map spawns, dodgy hits due to ping etc, etc... the game that puts me back in a good mood again is almost always a Skull Merchant. I get some good vaults off, some pallet stuns, manage play around her power and nit be made to feel like a useless goober, succeed at pulling off my meme builds…

    Win or lose it feels like an even contest that could have gone either way… completely anecdotal I understand, but it does make me chuckle how far my experience with this killer deviates from everyone else. XD

  • Nameless
    Nameless Member Posts: 869

    The main difference being that there's really only 2 powers that can grant Vecna hits easily. Mage hand is already going to be tweaked, if I'm not mistaken. Those 2 powers can also be countered by items in the game, and they have a long cooldown, unlike Skull Merchant. When Vecna uses FoTD, you have to crouch once, and while there is a likely chance that you will get zoned out, crouching once is pretty much all it is. If Vecna messes up and fails to land this hit, then the chase continues like normal. Skull Merchant on the other doesn't care. She puts a drone right next to you and whether you crouch once or not, that drone remains there until you go down, constantly forcing you to crouch or get hit.

    In fact Skull Merchant really is the only killer in the game that can just use her power that just does things passively for her during a chase, while also that power being a constant threat during the chase. At least I can't think of any other killer that can do this (except for maybe Knight, but guess what no one likes Knight either). There's plenty of killers that can use their powers multiple times during a chase, but it's a power that they actively have to control, and therefore there's some skill involved.

    So I wouldn't put Vecna anywhere near Skull Merchant in terms of fun to go against.

  • Chocolate_Cosmos
    Chocolate_Cosmos Member Posts: 5,735

    They have PTSD from her past. Most people hate her because its SM, not because of her power.

  • coolgue1
    coolgue1 Member Posts: 126

    Man u you don't think mage hand and flight of the damded are not broken wow just wow the fact that it GIVES FREE HIT WITH No counter play at all is what make it concerning yes their is chest items but that purely RNG no skill what so ever they're make killer have no counter play unless you use their items is way to op and rng based to make it fun that the same reason every give up with alien because his power make the entire map usless unless u use a turrent same thing with vecknasame thing with Skullmerchant stop giving killer added slowdowns bk because of some 3 objective that you try to force in killer can already for another objective TOTEMS but no one want to waste a perk slot because their are way better perks that add more time to the game look at pop every time some as pop on it just hook trade all game with a 3 gen and it impossiable to get anywhere

  • Dustin
    Dustin Member Posts: 2,307
    edited June 19

    I don't find the AoE power denial fun in any instance. Yes I know how to avoid the scanning lines and yes I fully know how Skull Merchant works. I would rather play a bot game versus Trapper than play against Skull Merchant. The only thing that I find enjoyable about her power is the interaction of deactivating the drones. The gameplay loop against her is boring and I don't enjoy it.

    The hidden scan lines until it scans it's first target is honestly stupid and should go. It's not clear to everyone even sometimes people who are aware of it and it causes so many random RNG deaths during a chase because wrong place at wrong time. It only takes players who don't even know it's scanning while invisible off guard and it's one of her many stupid mechanics.

    And I'll just say it - She shouldn't be debuffing or even injuring people just because she decides to prolong the chase. She shouldn't gain extra speed for holding W because the drones. Everything about her power she gets is passively earned which is so stupid. You don't need to think when playing SM you just drop a drone and it will force survivors to another tile. They have one of the lowest skill floors of any killer in this game.

    At least with Vecna a lot of their abilities they have to be proactive and aim them. Skull Merchant can drop their drones and forget about them until they decide they need more when they are on the other side of the map and need to remove older ones.

    tl;dr - Skull Merchant is rewarded passively / Vecna has to at least engage with survivors they want to kill. Absolutely a case by case basis and just because let's say Pig passively kills survivors their power functions way differently and doesn't deny areas.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Not only is he designed far better not only visually but also his lore. His gameplay is also more engaging you have items you can pick up and use, you have mimics and rolling dice.

    Aside from that while skull merchant just puts down drone and runs around the loop until the survivor dies Vecna has some more interesting mechanics, yes some people say mage hand is over tuned, but honestly if you just pre drop the pallet it does nothing, and the cooldown are still massive. There is just way more interaction with his abilities than with skull merchants... Even if skull merchant becomes less annoying gameplay wise I would still dislike her for her cringe Backstory and boring uninspired looks... She is just a sad excuse for what Predator or a bounty hunter in the jungle could look like...

  • Peladiño
    Peladiño Member Posts: 19
    edited June 19

    It doesn't make sense your point of comparison, although in a small sense they are similar, there are a lot of factors, to start with the most important one, because what is the great similarity is that with 1 with fast animation, it makes lose all the importance and specialty to a loop that depends on a safe pallet, but anyway this affects the player who at the moment is in 1v1, while SK, forces you to leave the loop, quickly since you enter at a severe disadvantage and that loop is marked like that forever until someone deactivates it, the problem is that from a distance you can ruin that loop again, in a short time the killer surely already has many engines and loop with drones deployed that causes a series of disadvantages for the survivors and advantages for the killer, you even feel suffocated because once the killer has all his drones deployed, because you will realize that almost the entire map is infected with drones at the volume level, obviously there will be spaces that are not, but surely they are the least relevant like sides and corners, in exchange neighbor if the chase begins from afar to If you get to a loop with a pallet and you pre-throw the pallet, the killer will lift it up and when you turn around again you can throw the pallet down again. Although this probably doesn't work very well, it's a welcome possibility, but anyway there are at least more gentle tools to face the killer, such as the items they give you in the chests of neighbors, among other things, there are also skills that feel more satisfying like crouching when he throws the skulls, even if it doesn't hurt you it still shortens your distance due to the loss of speed when crouching, there are also places and situations where it's very certain to suffer damage from the skulls, but anyway it feels like a much more playable and reasonable gameplay

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,899

    The only way to make her look like the manga character she's supposed to look like, is buying her most expensive cosmetics.

    Peak BHVR.

  • hermitkermit
    hermitkermit Member Posts: 427

    I have a theory that it's not specific killers people dislike, but the types of players those killers attract. For example, bubba is notorious for a certain playstyle regarding basements. SM is linked with the 3 gen strategy, which made her popular. PH is associated with tunneling because his cages make it easy. The same goes for certain survivors or cosmetics, like pink-haired neas or base-skin dwight.

    I think Vecna is still too new to have a stereotypical playstyle associated with him. Of course, I'm not saying that not every player using a particular character will play in a specific way, but it happens often enough for stereotypes to form, leading to assumptions and negativity.

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 624

    I hate them both

  • BrightWolf
    BrightWolf Member Posts: 444

    Don't even get me started on her stupid sexy walk that makes her look like she's gliding across the ground instead of walking on it, like sure movement can look goofy as all hell in this game. E.G Trickster and Wesker's run animations look ridiculous, Wesker's even more so because of the 90's trenchcoat but they still look like they're a part of the environment, instead of like a badly modded character.

  • BrightWolf
    BrightWolf Member Posts: 444
    edited June 20

    Comment Deleted, wrong thread.

  • BrightWolf
    BrightWolf Member Posts: 444

    I agree with this, I said something similar to my friend in that "I can't hate Vecna because I haven't faced him on "even" ground yet, every time I've been against him its been on a small indoor map (which he chose to take us there with a map offering) so I can't get a gauge on how his powers feel in a match because he's on top of us before we get the chance to assess the situation, let alone touch a gen."

    So yeah, I don't hate Vecna perse, I just hate the learning curve of the players who are picking him up because they want to see what he can do, but unfairly tip the scale in his favour by picking a small map.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    True... There is just nothing good about that character... Even her mori is basically just Freddy's mori but worse...

  • BrightWolf
    BrightWolf Member Posts: 444

    I wouldn't say there's nothing bad about her prese, just mismatched, almost like they decided to smoosh two different concepts together and prayed that it would work. because in theory Skull Merchant, should work. A sexy rich CEO big game hunter, who is bored of hunting exotic creatures turns to hunting the most dangerous of all creatures, her fellow humans, because she views everyone beneath her. That concept is pretty scary, she's so rich she can get away with murdering people for sport. Paying off the police to hide or delay the finding of evidence, making deaths look like accidents or they crossed the "wrong" people. To make her image even scarier, she uses the bones of her victims incorporated into her decore at her penthouse, her clothes, her jewellery even (bone rings and necklaces).

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634
    edited June 20

    I mean it did not say the idea is not something that could have been done well, but we don't rate the idea, we rate what and what we have is a pile of garbage... Nothing about the way she is made is good.

    And honestly even the hunting fellow humans for sports is pretty boring at this point, not really something new or interesting, it could work if the killer is well made... But like she is not. And even that type of generic Backstory would be better than the cringe stuff we have with her Backstory.