Okay come on
Let me preface this, unlike DnD, I have a very personal connection to Tomb Raider. Tomb Raider Legend and Angel Of Darkness are games I grew up with when I was younger and Legend especially holds a very close part in my heart as before my Nana passed she would play it with me at her old age and then even do her best to play pretend with me after cause I always wanted to be Lara lol.
But with that said…my point which people got VERY angry about is being further proven correct that DBD is moving away from horror entirely. Im sorry but what does Tomb Raider actually have to do with horror? The closest 'horror' Tomb Raider I can think of is well Angel Of Darkness and thats not even horror so much as a darker aesthetic so it still doesn't make sense to me that this was chosen as an IP.
This decision REEKS of cash grab and is just one more step of DBD moving away from horror as a whole and moving into 'Asymmetrical fortnite'
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Idealistically DBD should provide the horror setting, and any character should be able to be tossed into the game and it'd make sense, as it's just that character in a "horrifying environment".
That being said, DBD gameplay with multiple hours into it certainly plays more like an action game than a horror game.
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I gotta say, I really don't understand why Tomb Raider is supposedly over the line when other licenses we've had haven't been.
Lara, as a character, has just as much claim to be a DBD survivor as someone like Bill Overbeck or Leon Kennedy. She has WAY more of a claim than the Rainbow Six characters or the Attack on Titan skins, but to be fair, those were cosmetics, that is a slightly different thing.
Tomb Raider has plenty of horror to work with, and I don't see the substantial difference between that and Left 4 Dead or later Resident Evil titles. Yeah, Tomb Raider also has action setpieces, but for most of the newer trilogy - especially the one they're pulling most from - Lara spends most of her time skulking around, repairing old technology to try and stay alive, and being haunted by horrifying circumstances brought about at least partially by supernatural entities. It's really not hard to translate that into DBD's core gameplay loop, and I don't think the fact that there's combat and action setpieces should be an immediately disqualifying element.
It's not like she's a cartoon character, or from some zany comedy. Tomb Raider's flirted with horror a lot, this makes total sense.
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have you never touched the hand of midas? that was terrifying.
also the sudden t-rex and shark encounters…
I used to be legit afraid of playing this stage because of this shark.
also… this guy was pure horror!!!
Look at him!!! always following. damn terminator.
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sidenote… another person with an overall positive opinion on angel of darkness? 🎉🎉🎉🎉
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Where have you been when Trickster was released?
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Someone else doesn’t hate AoD??? I’m still PRAYING that one day AoD gets the proper treatment it deserves. They were forced to make that game within two years and brand new 3D technology never used before. They bit off way more than they could chew.
The game has an amazing and eerie presence. AoD Lara is absolutely my favorite iteration of our heroine. Dark, serious, truly concerned she murdered one of friends. The story could’ve also been phenomenal and compelling for the time, especially if it got the trilogy it was supposed to. Basically 50% of the game was scrapped after asking for two extensions and being forced to release it because it was supposed to release WITH the PS2.
If it has proper mechanics and was able to be fully completed, AoD could’ve easily been the best Tomb Raider. Sadly, we will never know and that arch of Lara’s life will never be closed. 😭
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realistically this probably means any ip could get into the game
dragon age chapter for more fantasy please!
Post edited by humanbeing1704 on2 -
She is a survivor of the unknown(no pun intended) and triumph over any horrors.
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It sounds like your connection with the series is through the Core games and LAU, although even in that case, saying TR has nothing to do with horror given, for example, the final levels of TR1 is a bit reductive. But the Lara in DBD in reboot Lara, which is called a reboot for good reason. One of which was the massive tonal shift of the franchise.
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I think people are pretty silly about how purist they try to pretend to be about horror in this game. What is a survivor? They are just a human trying to survive against the entity. Any human. What makes Dwight more of a "horror" character than Lara? Read his lore. He's literally just some random loser.
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IMO the problem isn't Lara but the fact that we could've gotten so many actual (I know Lara fights zombies and ######### but the games are not horror centric) characters from horror there's so much characters that don't really have a corresponding killer that we COULD have gotten i mean off the top of my head I think Isaac Clarke would've been perfect
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I feel like Isaac Clarke would test the tone of DBD more than Lara would, but even setting that aside, getting one character now doesn't mean we can't get other characters later.
Lara's a good fit for DBD that a lot of people are fans of, there's really no reason not to add her because some more traditional horror characters could be added first. Just add them too.
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Sorry but many original Killers aren't scary and a bad fit for DBD too. Peak horror for me is the Doctor, he is by far the scariest Killer they ever made.
Also you do know Trickster and Legion are in this game right? Where is the horror? I never got scared, they most of the time get a sigh when i see them, even my first matches against them back when they released (and Legion chapter made me delete DBD for a while, almost gave up entirely).
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I grew up with the first survival TR game on the 360, and although it wasn't a horror game, it certainly wasn't straying away from the genre. You could watch Lara dying in any number of ways to make Dead Space swoon. Eviscerated by cave cannibals, smashed flat by rubble, skewered across rebar polls. There was a pool of blood involved somewhere and I distinctly remember almost Lara's entire friend group dying along the way.
I do agree that I'd like it if some more full on Horror Licences got added over IPs with Horror connections, but I'm not mad at these inclusions either.
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Trickster is horror in the same vein as Patrick Bateman.
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Wheres my gosh darn Parasite Eve killer/survivor combo? At least that has horror.
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I believe the non-cash grab reasoning would be that yes, she’s not from a horror franchise, but she is a SURVIVOR. If it was any less reason than that it would not be justifiable in my mind. My head cannon when ignoring the money trail is that they’re leaning into the survivor aspect with her Chapter. I completely see where you’re coming from though. The game has not been meeting the horror standards for a while. I’d personally like a game mode(NOT Lights Out) where the only changes are the fog is a bit thicker (not insane like lights out) and no Terror Radius. I think the best they’ve hit the Horror mark is with Myers. He can be terrifying.
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She has a lot more to do with horror than Nick Cage, at least.
Anyway, it's Survival Horror, she's very experienced at the Survival bit.
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I don't think it's really fair to judge survivor inclusions the same way we would killer inclusions, like if for example Davy Jones showed up as a licensed killer that would obviously be very dumb. But survivors are just that, survivors.
Really the only criteria would be experiencing and surviving an attack of a supernatural nature and in that aspect I don't see Lara as any different as Jill, Bill, Steve, Cheryl, etc.
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True. Alot of the survivors are just average folk dropped into a horror setting.
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Mario and Luigi fight ghosts and skeletons in haunted houses sometimes, so I'm looking forward to their inclusion in DbD. They'd bring us perks like "YAHOO!" and "LET'S-A GO!" and "MAMA MIA!"
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The difference is that the original Survivors are nods to slasher archetypes (E.G. the Nerd, the Jock, the Virgin, etc) where Lara is an action adventure character because the IP is that, similar to that of Indiana Jones or Uncharted, there might some horror elements in Tomb Raider, but that doesn't make it a horror IP nor her a horror character, as those horror elements in it aren't the focus of her games.
Post edited by Smoe on4 -
That's what makes them good. I like average folk, horror characters should be vulnerable underdogs or else there's no tension, that's basic storytelling.
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By this logic was Ash a bad inclusion? By the time we get to the TV show the deadites felt more like annoyances to Ash than actual threats.
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I don't care about the TV show. In Evil Dead 1 and 2, he is an ordinary everyman trapped in overwhelming danger. Even in Army of Darkness (which is barely a horror movie anyway), he's still a pretty regular guy who just happens to be thrust into a heroic position out of necessity, but nothing he does is all that special. And those are his most popular depictions.
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This is hilarious to me when the TV show version is literally the version we got. Meanwhile we're getting the 2013 version of Lara which is the most horror tomb raider ever was. So most horror version of Lara bad but least horror version of Ash good tells me how absolutely arbitrary these complaints about Lara's inclusion in DBD really are and it's literally just gatekeeping for gatekeeping's sake.
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I've always been jumpscared by every animal.
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Nicolas Cage doesn't really have anything to do with horror.. He was in some B movies and that's it.. Lara Croft belongs here just as much as Nick does so..
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tbf I also mentioned R6 in my original post which people got VERY mad at me for mentioning or even discussing.
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trickster is still heavily rooted in horror. Lara is an action video game character 👍🏽
just because a character occasionally fights a ‘zombie’ doesn’t mean they’re horror centric or rooted in horror1 -
I think trying to stretch out the last 2 chapter releases as ‘chapters with horror connections’ is really reaching 😭
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How is he rooted in horror? Someone can find this piece of fanservice scary?
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literally 😭!
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ugh I hate this argument. Those are all characters from HORROR IPs. That’s the difference flat out they are all HORROR characters. Also the fact (can’t believe I have to diss heather) Heather’s power of ‘defeating God’ is largely overhyped as it was at the end of the day just another Silent Hill creature that she shot to death, Bill also just shot things but without a gun he’s just an old man with slight military training, Steve is still a vulnerable teen without his entire group + weapons, Jill is from one of the most iconic horror franchises in the world and also in the OGs was just a woman with advanced military training not some crazy super fighter.
But most importantly they’re all rooted, based on, and designed with horror in mind. Lara is not despite how much I love her, a horror character.
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literally read his lore. Him and Yun-Jin are all about ‘the sides of people you’ll never know’ he’s a murderer who picks his victims from a pool that’s seemingly never ending while maintaining a cover that forever keeps him away from crosshairs because of his beloved status as a celebrity. This topic isn’t about Trickster however and about the de-evolution of DBD directly turning away from horror in favor of money and becoming the next Fortnite
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So there is "horror" in his lore, but nowhere else about him? By this logic they can freely add SpongeBob, I'm sure he had a couple of "scary" episodes.
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So most horror version of Lara bad but least horror version of Ash good
I said I didn't care about the TV show version of Ash and preferred the original movie depictions. If it was up to me, I would have put in his Evil Dead 2 depiction 1:1. Don't put words in my mouth, and stop throwing around buzzwords you don't understand the meaning of. Make a real argument.
And I don't care about the Tomb Raider remakes either. I never liked the idea of taking the cool and confident OG Lara Croft and turning her into a scared little girl. I guess it fits choosing that version for DbD instead, but I still don't care for it.
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I did make an argument, you're the one cherry picking what's valid from evil dead to acknowledge and what's valid from tomb raider to acknowledge.
The version of Ash we have is from a show that's more comedy before horror, the version of Lara we're getting is from a game that while not strictly horror literally took inspiration from a horror movie. It's silly to ignore both these facts and say Ash is fine but Lara isn't.
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If you want to believe that, sure. Curse of Strahd was made to teach people how to make horror campaigns in dnd, and Lara got mutilated in ways so bad back in 2013 I can't even describe them here without being banned, but believe what you want. Our experiences ultimately inform how we categorize media, and I've been more than traumatized by TR as a kid, so it makes sense that I would associate the series more with horror than others might.
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And I said I prefer horror movie Ash and I would swap TV Ash for him, and I said horror Lara still isn't horror enough for my tastes. I don't even know what you're arguing, other than trying to vilify people for their opinions on horror.
I wasn't even talking to you to begin with, I was just saying I prefer ordinary joe schmoes as my horror characters, and you butted in to complain about it. This is a waste of time.
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Again, the dark gritty horror theme was immediately done away with when the first survivors started getting Halloween costume and pajama cosmetics. Why are we complaining about Lara Croft when we have Toilet paper mummy Dwight? Why is Dwight considered to fit the horror theme but Lara is not? They are both humans. Such a weird discussion to be having.
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Lmao that's dramatic. I was literally just making the point that it's ill-founded to suggest Lara doesn't fit in the game compared to additions we already have. Mostly because I think trying to gatekeep what counts as horror and belongs in DBD only hurts the community. I didn't see this kinda push back when we got rainbow six siege even which makes this especially bizarre.
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For what it is worth, I thought the R6 tie-in was very dumb, and I would take Lara Croft over that any day. I'd take her over the DnD elf too.
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To be fair, if Lara was added to the game as a cosmetic for Meg or somebody else (like the R6 ones), I don't think anyone would've made a fuss.
But this is a chapter (albeit only a paragraph chapter), not a cosmetic. Players look forward to these, so when they turn out to be from an IP that's arguably a bit left field or questionable, you can't blame some of us for being a little bit disappointed.
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The whole "it's not horror" complaint for this chapter makes no sense whatsoever.
Firstly, Horror is expansive and feeds into many genres. Tomb Raider has horror elements. Lara Croft faces a T-rex, oni's, Baba Yaga, a kraken .. all horror creatures. The 2013 remake also borrowed from horror atmospheres. Tomb Raider has many horror elements, whilst still being a survivor game.
Secondly, Lara Croft is a survivor in the strongest possible sense. If I was The Entity and looking for suitable, substantial meals then I'd be searching for people like Lara Croft who would put up a strong fight. She is basically the perfect candidate.
Thirdly, there are many characters in this game which are not horror. Most original survivors are not horror. Some Killers - such as The Trickster, The Legion or The Deathslinger- are not horror (The Deathslinger is basically a Western chapter with a little steampunk). None of these were picked up on when people complain about Lara Croft.
The whole argument falls flat. The Entity doesn't go round choosing horror characters from the many worlds it consumes. It doesn't go to Earth to swallow victims and entire planets, but leaves the presenters of CBeebies alone because they are not horror. It's not, but these complaints stink of Gatekeeping.
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- The problem is not Lara, but the absolute nothingness she brings with her. Little publicity, little hype, little impact... the same thing happened with Alan Wake. If you go to the "PTB" section of the forum you will find dozens of posts on Knight and Singularity, she (her perks) should be the real news of the moment... nothing. Well, she too (like Alan) was a bit mistreated
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I'm starting to feel like collabs like this are more for the devs and not for us. I can't imagine Tomb Raider ever being something the community would want or even consider for this game. They went with modern Lara too, which is almost as bad as unified Lara. I'm a Tomb Raider fan too, but this isn't it.
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The game was a horror hame once, but many horror elements of it are lost (dark, atmospheric maps full of fog, the hide and seek type of gameplay) or work occasionally (the killers themselves sometimes are just... not scary).
Imo, Lara Croft is fine, and the DnD chapter is fine as well. With that said, chapters like All Things Wicked or Roots of Dread are welcome.
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This.
It's just like: Hey, we added Lara Croft. Here are her perks. Bye.
And that's it.
I'm not even sure there was a trailer for this chapter.
Edit: There was not.
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You obviously never have taken a BHVR Survey, to which they have stated, and have asked our thoughts on the matter of other possible genres would be welcomed into the realm of Dead by Daylight. This was asked of us long before the 3rd Anniversary (or 4th anniversary) Anime, Sci-Fi, Action, Other Videogames, all are considered a concept to fit within a game of Killer's and Survivor's. It's Horror Themed Asymmetrical 1v4 Survival Tactics.
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