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You don't get tunnelled frequently. You are just biased.
Scott Jund conducted an experiment and survey on tunnelling. In his experiment, he played 50 matches and recorded the number of matches where anyone on his team was tunnelled. Tunnelling occurred in 5/50 (10%) matches and in only 2 of the matches, the killer was deliberately tunnelling. In the other 3 matches, the tunnelling occurred due to survivors making stupid mistakes. Considering there are 4 survivors, the odds of a specific survivor being tunnelled out is 1/4*10% = 2.5%.
He also conducted a survey, which gathered 3103 responses. 80% of people were tunnelled less than 40% of the time. Only 7% of people were tunnelled more than 60%. The average tunnel frequency was 27% (assuming the average of each range). Though, the real values are extremely likely much lower since the survey question was "how often do you feel like you get tunnelled". It was based on feeling and their own definition of tunnelling rather than actually tracking their matches with a standardised definition. When matches were tracked, people were tunnelled (individually) 1%-3% of the time, as seen in Scott Jund's experiment and the data I discuss later.
Tunnel frequency | Percentage of responses |
|---|---|
0-20% of the time | 47% |
21-40% of the time | 33% |
41-60% of the time | 12% |
61-80% of the time | 3% |
> 80% of the time | 4% |
He also found that region and time of day had minimal impact on tunnel frequency.
It was also found that tunnel rate was correlated with escape rate, so it's possible that survivors that get "tunnelled more frequently" are not actually getting tunnelled more but are just dying more frequently due to being worse at the game.
From the data and his experiment, Scott Jund concluded that the myth of frequent tunnelling occurred due to negativity bias, which is a bias that caused people to remember and place higher weight on negative events than neutral and positive events. He also challenged anyone that thinks they get tunnelled frequently to record their gaming sessions and send them to him for proof.
The takeaway from this is to track the percentage of matches you get tunnelled. For example, someone recently posted data from 1212 matches they played (Jan-June 2024), which tracked tunnelling. Note that 18 matches were cancelled from the start, so there were 1194 matches in total. I compiled the data from it and these were the results:
- Tunnelling occurred in 49 matches (4.1%)
- In 47 of the matches, 1 person was tunnelled. In the remaining 2 matches, 2 people were tunnelled. Therefore, 51 survivors were tunnelled in total.
- There were 4776 survivors (1194*4) in total. Therefore, the odds of a specific person being tunnelled was 51/4776 (1.1%)
- In many of the matches with tunnelling, there was a DC, so tunnel rate would be lower if DCs were excluded.
Nazzzak also provided their data set of 421 matches and found that tunnelling occurred in approximately 1/12 (8.3%) of matches.
Comments
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I know, the fact majority of survivors not even bringing OTR really tells there is not much of tunneling from the beginning
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I don't trust complaints about tunneling because people's definitions of tunneling are unreliable.
30 -
Big +1 to this.
Some people (correctly) ID tunneling as the killer pursuing them off each hook no matter who else tries to get in the way. Some say they're being tunneled because they went right back on a gen next to the hook. Some say they're being tunneled because the killer is snowballing hard and they got hooked twice in the span of a minute, even though other players were downed between those times. Some say they're being tunneled because they used endurance to bodyblock for the unhooker and then went "wait that's illegal" when the killer committed to them. Some say they're being tunneled because at 2 gens left the killer started targeting them hard. Some say they're being tunneled because they died.
Combo the confirmation bias that makes it feel like the killer has it out for you in particular because you don't see their interactions with anyone else, with the prevalent zeitgeist that you remember your unpleasant matches much more than your average ones, and the game feels a lot worse than it is. I'm not surprised at these results. Doesn't mean tunneling isn't a problem, but it's definitely not an every game thing.
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I've said numerous times on this forum that I don't see tunnelling often in my games. I kept stats on alot of my games (421 was my longest streak) and I saw a tunneller in approx 1 in every 12 games. I think for a lot of survivors it's negativity bias rearing it's head. It's why I've always said that perks should be the solution to tunnelling and not a basekit solution, because that way survivors will able to determine just how much value they get and therefore how much it actually happens. Babysitter is a good option. Also goes to show that the "tunnelling is necessary" killer crowd is a minority and it's likely a skill issue.
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One of his issues was that he specifically asked if YOU got tunneled, not if you saw tunneling.
Being tunneled 27% of the time actually seems to support the idea that tunneling is fairly frequent.
37 -
Neither I trust "I play against 4 players comps most of the time"
26 -
Because OTR doesn't help against players planning to tunnel???
OTR is useless if I hit you off hook lmao
37 -
I always like seeing these kinds of surveys and tests done, it's very interesting.
That said, isn't the test pool kind of small? I feel like in terms of tunneling it should be tested across more matches and different MMR brackets, though I am not sure how you would pull that off. And considering this community, it would be difficult to just ask a large pool of players for their stats and for it to be accurate enough to trust. And I say that for both survivor and killer mains.
5 -
May I use the math that "multiplied by 4 survivors"?
If I, one survivor, being tunneled 27% average. Does that mean 4 survivors make it 108%?
I mean if Im not being tunneled, doesnt mean one of other 3 teammates isnt being tunneled. Hope his survey shows tunneling rate counted on both people doing the survey and their teammates. Not just them alone.
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I'm not sure why there should be a distinction here. Tunneling is happening, whether it's happening to you or one of your teammates.
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Asking if YOU got tunneled lowers the rate. I don't get tunneled every match, but I do see others get tunneled in almost every game.
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You’re severely underestimating OTR. Try it if you have it. The amount of times you get hit immediately off hook are probably 1 in a 80 games just going from my experience. Even if you get hit, no grunts of pain, no pools of blood and your aura can’t be read for 80 seconds. It is a very good anti tunnel perk, can easily be better than DS. If you are frequently getting hit off hook immediately then your teammates are very, very bad.
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The worst part is that the survey was based on people's subjective evaluations of their experience, so even when people use their unreliable and subjective definitions, only 7% of people reported tunnelling >60% of the time. Considering the data, probably no one gets tunnelled that often over the long-term/hundreds of games.
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Them: I'm "tunneled" all the time!
Me: Prove it.
Them: Trust me, bro.
Scott Jund: The facts show you're not being "tunneled" very much at all.
BHVR: Better add more assists to help with the "tunneling" problem instead of realizing we're being manipulated by liars.
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So it punishes people that don't actually tunnel just like I said it would when it first got buffed, crazy.
Not really on my teammates when the Killer has massive slowdowns and proxying on their side, either unhook or let me hit a-stage, at least with one I have a fighting chance.
5 -
No, it doesn't. This 27% value is based on subjective evaluations and people guessing their own experiences. It may support how often people feel they get tunnelled but not how often they actually get tunnelled. I have already provided 2 data sets that show that tunnelling occurs far less frequently than reported (5%-10% where anyone gets tunnelled). @nazzanako also mentioned their data set of 421 matches, which showed tunnelling occurred in 1/12 (8.3%) of matches. So far, the data overwhelmingly shows that people drastically overestimate how often they get tunnelled.
This multiply by 4 math is only applicable when people actually track their stats, which provides accurate data. The survey was based on people's feelings, which is why it doesn't add up. If anything, the incorrect math shows that people inaccurately reported how often they were tunnelled.
On average, you get responses from people that are average mmr, so the results are applicable for average mmr. For high mmr, you can check how often top survivor players get tunnelled, e.g. Hens and Otz, from their VODs. I don't think there would be much difference since Scott Jund is very high mmr and his experiment showed that high mmr players were rarely tunnelled.
5 -
Facts show tunneling happens to the reporting player in about 27% of matches.
How many Survivors per match? Four. Completely conceivable that someone, at the very least, feels like they're being tunneled in every match.
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I don't think Scott is high MMR. I have no supporting facts other than I have never seen him try and he actively brings meme builds.
Likewise, I really don't want to play Survivor anymore, or really DBD in general, but I will if you'll actually accept what I find. Somehow, I imagine that if the results don't fit your narrative, they'll be conveniently ignored.
7 -
Might try reading the whole thing.
- There were 4776 survivors (1194*4) in total. Therefore, the odds of a specific person being tunnelled was 51/4776 (1.1%)
4 -
" The average tunnel frequency was 27%"
You quoted the wrong "study". Scott didn't conduct that one.
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I don't think Scott is high MMR. I have no supporting facts other than I have never seen him try and he actively brings meme builds.
He's been playing this game for about 7 years and is one of the best killer players. He's definitely high mmr for survivor. Also due to the mmr soft cap existing, it's unnecessary to be max mmr to face the best killers. Just being above the soft cap is good enough.
If we were to truly look at the best survivor players, their tunnel rate would be close to 0 because they would be playing in a 4-man swf and escaping almost every match.
Upload your games and send it to Scott. With the data so far, I find it impossible for tunnelling to occur >50% of the time over the long-term.
4 -
With all due respect to Scott, he's a nice dude, he isn't one of the best Killers. Not even close.
I wouldn't be sending it to Scott, it'd be coming right to you. It might take me three years, because my patience and will to play DBD is at an all-time low, but it'll get done.
What would be a sufficient amount of games?
8 -
Scot even said as much in his video.
I've even seen people complain about "being tunneled" after they actively hang around to try for a pallet save for their unhooker, and then screamed "tunneler" when killer doesn't fall for it...
Is like bruh...
4 -
When I say one of the best, I mean in the top 0.5% of killers.
You don't need to send me hundreds of matches. A preliminary sample of 10-15 matches is good enough for a rough estimate. Hundreds of matches are only needed to confirm with high accuracy and reduce variance.
2 -
15 might still take me 3 years 😅
Regular gamemode, I presume? Wouldn't make much sense to test on an event, imo.
What information do you want me to take down? 15 is a relatively small sample size, so it won't be too difficult to take down a lot of info. Likewise, SWF or Solo Q?
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There's nothing wrong with anti-tunnel perks. If tunnelling isn't happening as much as people feel it is, then they'll realize that when they get little to no value out of the perk/s and they'll eventually swap it to something else. As I said in my comment, I rarely see tunnelling but there's nothing wrong with anti-tunnelling perk options. If only a tiny percentage of killers are tunnelling then it's a wasted perk slot for most survivors and most killers will never see it in play as most don't tunnel.
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People consider everythin tunneling. So it's completely over blown. I think I've ACTUALLY been tunneled like once in the last 30 or so games. A Trickster and I abused him with the portals on the new map and everyone escaped lol.
3 -
Solo Q regular game mode.
Stats:
- Number of survivors that were tunnelled (including you)
- Number of times you were tunnelled
- Whether there was a disconnect and who disconnected
- The killer
- Ideally upload the end-game screens to Imgur
Mention the timestamps for the games with tunnelling, so I can quickly find them and don't have to watch every game.
This is just the first 15 matches you play randomly. Don't try to isolate it to just certain matches. Play as you normally do. Don't try to play more toxic or bold to encourage tunnelling.
Also, state your definition of tunnelling here now, so you can't change it later to suit your narrative.
Post edited by adsads123123123123 on2 -
I agree, I don't trust complaints about that either. Both happen sometimes, and it sucks when they do, but unless I'm shown the evidence, I can only assume most people are just blowing hot air.
3 -
His data is flawed in that he only asked when you get tunnelled not whether the game contains tunnelling. I don't think we can really draw many conclusions from it. I answered the survey he made and it was very bare bones and basic.
I do agree with him though that tunnelling is much less common than it is discussed, at least in my experience. My experience is very similar to Nazzzak's and I very rarely see tunnelling (outside of events at least). I think it's similar to the complaints that "every game is a SWF" where people see something slightly resemble tunnelling (such as a teammates body blocking, you running into the killer, etc) and then use it as a way to justify their mistakes and loses. The bad games also stick with you more than the good ones so it feels like every game is a tunneller because they leave the biggest impact on you.
Regardless of how common it is though, it should still be addressed in some way. I think the DS buff was a good start and helped alleviate some of it by the threat of it existing returning but there should be something that to encourage you not to do it that isn't behind a pay wall. Whether it is common or not, it still is common enough to understandably ruin people's experience with the game. A good comparison is FtP/Buckle Up - it was not that common, maybe 1 in every 10 games, but it still made the game miserable to play at times and the nerf was necessary.
2 -
Another so-called experiment that means nothing. Unless every player in every region and every MMR has the exact same matches it's not representative of the larger whole.
With how people over extrapolate it's no wonder BHVR is reluctant to release statistics.
2 -
Scott played his main account with high mmr? If yes it makes sense he don't see a lot of tunneling.
I don't see a lot of tunneling too, maybe in less than 1/3 of my matches. When I see tunneling its mostly a killer with around 1000 hours playtime or the survivor is in a complete deadzone.
My guess is the tunneling happens in the 500 - 1000 hour survivor playtime range where survivors are not longer overwhelmed by the game but still can't loop consistent. there are a lot of players in that playtime range, so there are a lot of complaints.
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So, you're one of those people that think you get tunnelled every match? Upload your gaming sessions for proof. Thanks.
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One of my most memorable games, which, for me perfectly sums up the gen kick meta:
Had a wraith hook Ada, walk over to my gen and kick it while I was standing a few feet away. He went immediately back to hook and let Eruption take care of the game for him. Ignored me completely, and I was just standing still watching him at the gen in plain view.
That match was completely destroyed by tunneling.
But if I was asked if I was tunneled, like Scott did in this poll, I'd say no. I wasn't even being chased, and that was deliberate. But that match was absolutely one where tunneling was the issue, it was my teammate, but that wasn't the question he asked here.
On the other hand, if people are seeing WoO or other perks that have about a 27% pick rate 'in every game', then it sounds like a 27% individual tunneling rate, as he defined it here, is at least very common as well.
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With the arguably weirdly phrased question and the rather small sample size (which he can’t help, he’s only got his audience), I’m not particularly inclined to believe such sweeping statements.
Besides, even if it’s not as common as we experience it, it’s undeniable that tunnelling is vastly more common than it used to be, and it’s far too effective on the vast majority of the playerbase.
6 -
You don't need a large poll and stats to know this. Many who complain just look for excuses for their poor performance, rather than acknowledge they need to improve.
Also, people will remember bad happenings more robustly than anything good because of an out-of-date instinct in humans to avoid danger above all else. One trial with either a perceived or actual tunnel becomes the basis for which future losses may be based on.
4 -
Scott posted the link the the survey here a while ago — and in that thread there was some feedback regading the wording and the structure of the questionnaire. E.g. it only ever asked about you getting tunnelled. Just because you don't get tunneled that often, doesn't mean you see others getting tunneled and can't prevent it. That would be alright if Scott actually asked all players (cause that tunneled player would then also reply) but this forum is not a representative group. So at the very least asking how often others were tunneled would have to be there to get a better picture and inform your conclusions.
That high MMR people get tunneled less, especially when they're kinda exceptional, also doesn't seem like a surprise: it's not that difficult to recognise as a killer that you're overcommitting and chances are you can and will find an easier target fast enough.
That being said: yes, there's bias involved. Of course there is. But there are also a way to account for that and even just thinking about the many days where I literally told the group "if the next game is tunneling again I ain't playing anymore today. Playing gen simulator or hook simulator isn't what I'm here for" - and they understood well what I meant, makes me think it's not that biased after all. Or the bias doesn't really matter. Why? - In those cases there was tunneling in at least three consecutive matches. On many, different days. In percentage of total matches? I have no clue. In any case it's significant enough that it made me effectively stop playing (safe for getting some cosmetics I really want cause idk why but I guess I just like cosmetics). And thats the direction a dev team wants to avoid, no?
3 -
Scott's methodology has flaws, but it carries more weight than a few people coming onto the forums to complain that tunneling is widespread and in every single game.
I'm not too sure if devs have pushed out an official survey asking about perceptions regarding tunneling so Scott's project seems like the next best thing.
2 -
This argument that average mmr survivors are tunnelled significantly more is largely unfounded because it assumes that high mmr survivors play exclusively with high mmr survivors and killers. This is false. Matchmaking is very loose. There will be many matches where a high mmr survivor is teamed with terrible/low mmr teammates and against baby killers. If tunnelling was significantly more frequent at average mmr, this would have been seen in the data posted, but tunnel rates were very low across all data sets. It also assumes tunnelling is less frequent at high mmr, but there is no evidence for this. If we look at the top level (tournaments), tunnelling occurs extremely frequently, suggesting it is more frequent at high mmr.
3 -
I don't know about others but at least I don't mean that high mmr players get targeted for tunneling less often. It's less successful against them. And as you say: matchmaking is a huge mixed bag. So chances are a killer will find a not-high-mmr-person to tunnel fast enough. (which imo is also why tunneling in pubs is so strong while in comp it isn't necessarily - I mean; there's a lot of not so great players in comp as well but if we look at the teams… say starting with the quarter finals of a given tourney.)
1 -
If a survivor equips an anti-tunnel perk like DS, and isn’t getting tunneled, then many of them like to weaponize the perk against the killer so they “don’t waste the perk”.
And that’s the problem with many of the anti-tunnel perks.
4 -
High mmr survivors actually have similar escape rapes to average mmr survivors. While they are better at the game, they also face better killers, causing their escape rate to remain similar. It's only 4-man SWFs and extremely good survivors that escape significantly more. Asides from Scott Jund, I don't think the other 2 data sets posted here fall into those categories.
https://new.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1arg1o4/developer_update_stats/
2 -
we need Steve Pulsar back! With a Mikey dotted around now and again!
4 -
I have recently got a steam deck and I play now and again (no cross progression from my Nintendo switch yet) and I can honestly say without any exaggeration that my Dwight gets tunnelled and targeted (as in, killer is in chase, sees me and switches to me immediately) in at least 6 out of the 10 matches. The other 4 where I’m not tunnelled, has a high likelihood that I see another person being tunnelled.
1 -
that's… in line with what I'm saying though? Those suffering the most from tunneling are those, who do not have the extra skill required to draw out the tunneling process in the match they got (looking at the mixed bag). Those who do have that skill, still have a chance to escape - or will be left alone entirely (again: leaving those lacking that skill to be tunneled).
1 -
I don't think DS is effective against tunneling, because once it's used, the Killer knows you have it, and they know you can't use it again, so that's a free ticket to tunneling.
3 -
I had a streamer accusing me of tunneling a few days ago. I had hooked her and than 2 others, but sure buddy imma tunnel you. I feel like people don't know what tunneling actually is anymore. In the last 50 games i have tunneled 1 person on purpose because i was on a bad map and being gen rushed, 2 people by accident just because i found them randomly. I have actually changed targets the moment i found someone before because i find that playstyle to be honestly very unfun as a survivor so why would i do it as a killer? I have been accused of it probably in at least 15 to 20 matches.
A lot of people who do get tunneled that i have seen from playing survivor and killer or watching videos tend to be the survivor who body block for the unhooker, tries to stick around the hook, runs to the nearest gen, heals in bad locations (gens, behind random objects, or bad loops being a prime example), tries to flashlight save, and honestly just make the bad choices themselves. They basically give every reason for the killer to chase them or down them due to mistakes they made.5 -
Im not surprised. Even as killer I accidentally run into he same survivor as I just hooked. I'm not ultra competitive so usually I will make sure If I win....I hook them last. Tbh, I think hook camping is a bigger issue than tunneling.
1 -
Players in general are too prone to going out of their way to get "value" out of their perks. Perks are there to serve you, not the other way around. If you can win without using any of your perks, go ahead and win, it doesn't matter if your perks didn't do anything because you're winning and that's all that counts.
1 -
People complain it happens way more often because the average persons definition of "tunneling" is wildly exaggerated and not actual tunneling. The average person calls it tunneling if just the same person got hooked twice in a row, regardless of anything, which isn't tunneling. I always rewatch matches when there's a streamer and I see people say I was "tunneling" all the time, and I even literally go out of my way to not tunnel. People just want to make excuses why they lost rather than own it. "Actual" tunneling is rare.
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