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Why does Pyramidhead's cage negate survivor perks?
Why is it that the Executioner's cage can disable DS, DH, and other anti-tunneling perks? How is it fair that 1 killer gets this special treatment? Additionally as a survivor, you just have to take it without there being any counter to it? Sometimes his power (lava goo?) isn't even visible on certain maps so no, you cannot always avoid it.
Answers
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Pyramidhead isn't the only killer that can negate survivor perks. Plague tends to negate any healing perk.
5 -
For same reason why its not activate pop or pain res. Cage is not a hook. And bring survivors to the cage means you win some you lose some (you shouldnt deal with long transport for survivors and also dealing with their powerful perks but also you cant trigger your perk that demand hook state)
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Not really, with Plague you can choose to cleanse and heal or not to, so you are left with a tactic against her.
That makes no sense. Considering he can already just put you in a cage without it undoing your perks' powers. It's as effective as not carrying you, but allows for counterplay.
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It makes perfect sense, cages are not hooks. And no hook perks (for either side) work with cages. If PH cages someone, you don't get any scourge hooks, you don't get pop, you don't get bbq, you don't get any perks that are activated with a hook. Similarly, survivors do not either.
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It's just part of that killers kit. It isn't like survivors have no counter play though. Try really hard to not run over his trails. Sometimes that means taking a basic attack.
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It doesnt negate anything, its simply not a hook.
So it doesnt trigger perks on either side that requires a hook.
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because it’s not a hook and it negates perks on both sides + it’s balanced around the idea that you’re only denied hook perks if you step on his trails
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True as that is, the trails very often bug out and turn invisible if PH uses his power for a very short duration.
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Let my PH alone!
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This, the amount of times his trail turns invisible is astounding. But this is DBD so why am I even surprised at them not fixing bugs.
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Cages usually spawn as far as possible from PH, giving survivors plenty of time not only to free the trapped survivor, but to even heal them to full health (also the survivors doing the rescue lose their Tormented status thus avoiding the risk of getting caged). Moreover, cages relocate if PH approaches them, so it absolutely negates camping. And to even get a survivor caged, PH needs to get them into trails of torment, which isn't always easy because experienced survivors avoid them to the best of their ability. So, it's not a special treatment — it makes sense lore-wise (the Entity didn't create him, he just hangs out in its realm and does his thing, so he isn't obliged to sacrifice survivors on hooks), it takes a lot of conditions to nail and also it sometimes even benefits survivors, allowing a much safer rescue.
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If that were the case, I would not mind cages.
But if I have a perk that requires being hooked/unhooked, and I go out of my way to avoid the barbed wire trails (even to my own detriment), the Executioner should NOT be allowed to dribble me until I wiggle off and fall onto the barbed wire against my will with zero counterplay.
1 -
Did you crouched?
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I mean, it would not be fair for his cages to deny hook perks on one side but not the other, either it should deny both sides' perks or neither.
Imo uncaged survivors should still get base BT though, that's not a perk anymore and being able to just instantly re-down after an uncage is lame.
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If you wiggle off the killer's shoulder (even if it's the killer dropping you and picking you back up until you are forced to wiggle off), holding the crouch button does not prevent becoming tormented (even if you hold crouch before wiggling free).
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So they wasted time using the cage on you.
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Wasting their time is not a counter. If the killer gets to punish me for being tormented, I don't want to be tormented, and it is entirely possible for the survivor to counter being tormented (except for 1 missed edgecase), I should not be forced to be tormented.
Post edited by Nos37 on0 -
Wasting the Killer’s time is the primary goal of a survivor.
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Wasting killer time is the biggest counter, the reason you want to counter any of the killer power/perk is simply because you can waste more time that way
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It's not wasting time when they can tunnel you right after you've been freed from the cage and considering you don't have BT and all your anti-tunneling perks are dead, so are you. So it's not a waste of time for the killer at all, it's him doing his objective very easily. And considering the fact that a lot of hook-related perks don't work for him, most use mobility/speed perks anyways, so it's really not that hard to get to you. And we all know that you can't do much against PH tunneling you, you can't take hits for each other, body block or any of that.
I genuinely wouldn't mind if the cage allowed for hook-related perks to work on both sides. Then it wouldn't feel like a punishment for both sides.
Lmao yes!!! Like I said in previous replies I literally walked over a not-covered part of the map and got struck by his trail anyway (?!) despite it not being visible.
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They should make them work for both sides and make the whole caging aspect similar to what remote "hooking" was; faster hooking. It still wouldn't allow for pallet/flashlight/sabo saves, you wouldn't need to carry them, and you would still have the benefit of the hook perks working for both sides.
Maybe calling it "hook" perks is the issue then? Like you've basically been caught and they've lost a health state, be it on a hook or in a cage 🤷 IDK would PH mains oppose having hook-related perks work for them as well?
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It does not counter their power.
Imagine if the Onryo could dribble you to MAKE you gain stacks of condemn. She would waste a lot of time, sure, but she could still mori you right out of the game with no counterplay.
Executioner can force you into a cage, whether you perfectly avoid becoming tormented or not.
My solution: Either give the survivor a split-second window of immunity for the game to realize that the survivor is crouching instead of just immediately tormenting them regardless of the crouch button being pressed, OR remove auto-wiggle (let it max out at 99% and let the survivor choose if & when to finish the last 1%).
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Ok, one question: How many killers do this?
Answer: One. One killer did this to you, and they propably had a daily or an old tome challenge.
Nobody would waste so much time on dribbling a survivor; and then they have to waste even more time catching that survivor again. Survivors can finish have their gens in the time PH wasted to put you in a cage, a cage on the other side of the map.
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Not everything is counterable, nor should everything be. The argument of "Uncounterable" only really holds weight when the end result is too strong for its inevitability.
There's quite the difference between Sadako's abilities and PH's as well. If Sadako could dribble you to gain condemned stacks, she could theoretically flat-out kill you after winning a single chase. The time-investment would grant such an immense pay-off that there's 0 reason not to do it, besides simply not wanting to. I don't think these two are comparable.
PH, ultimately, gets a remote hook, and thus a single hook-state, and denial of perk usage on both sides. And that at the cost of losing precious time to apply Torment. As the survivor, you're still winning time by dodging all the trails, since he still needs to invest time to get a cage. The fact that he can mini-mori on death hook while hit with Torment doesn't change a whole lot, since you'd be dead anyway. In that scenario, the time investment to apply Torment immensely exceeds the time it would take to simply hook you.
Not to mention that dribbling is risky in the first place, since there's no guarantee the survivor won't make it to another resource and massively extend the chase.
It just seems like a non-issue to me.
Post edited by GentlemanFridge on3 -
'Why does Pyramidhead's cage negate survivor perks?'
Because PH is apparently the best killer designed to tunnel someone with a minimal risk. As the doctor can easily to avoid anyone to unhook a survivor with his power if he choses to play in that way.0 -
I should mention a REALLY big reason as to why he NEEDS to work this way in his current state. Perks like Blood Warden. If all the survivors are at an exit gate and he downs one with NOED while that survivor has Torment on them he can send them to the cage which would activate Blood Warden and the rest of the survivors would be trapped at the gate with a killer who has NOED.
Friends 'Til The End is another big reason since there'd be zero time to react to it if he cages someone next to the obsession or he cages the obsession near the survivor who was hoping to get a save and finds them because of the scream.
Grim Embrace: Cages survivor and all gens instantly get blocked since cages can't spawn within 16 meters of him.
Leverage: Will make healing the caged survivor before he reaches them again during a tunnel essentially impossible since caged survivors commonly appear next to teammates. This is worse if BBQ is thrown into the mix.
Make Your Choice: Will make you exposed if you free a survivor from a cage immediately since he's likely gonna be further than 32 meters.
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half of your cases are still pointless tho
Bloodwarden is very situational and mediocre at best
Friends til the end sounds like a fun perk but it doesn’t appeal to me and you’re going to be m2’ing 90% of the time
Grim embrace is the only good case here
Leverage: just use his new purple addon
Make your choice is still pointless as a perk and I’d rather have it as an addon
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