Is Vecna the strongest killer in the lore?
he has a voice line in the lobby suggesting he could possibly leave the entity's realm. I think he could probably beat all the other killers
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With her power unreastrained, he is a literal deity that should theoretically be able to fight the entity one to one. So, unrestrained, he would be considerably more powerful than all the other killers combined.
But, as the developer said, to prevent him from leaving the realm or rebel, he has a "mark of negation" that keeps his powers in check.
So, it would entirely depend on how restrained or not it is.
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Him or Pinhead as it sounds like Pinhead was accidentally summoned to the realm and decided this was fun. His Mori also implies that he can leave whenever he wants as he can send survivors to The Labyrinth, he just chooses not to because there are plenty of victims for him. Not to mention The Leviathan that Pinhead can call for backup from...
Although the lore to The Dredge also implies he might be an Entity Level Threat as well. Like The Garden of Joy, there is way more to him than meets the eye.
A dark horse contender could be The Demodoggo. Obviously doggo himself isn't that powerful but The Mindflayer could arguably be part of that package.
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The entity has mark of negation…
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Vecna cannot be compared to the entity. The Entity is a multiversal omnipotent deity out of time and space that can do whatever it wants literally, while Vecna, while being probably the strongest killer lore-wise, is just lich hungry for power at the level of a demigod. Even in his lore Vecna says that he had never seen an evil as great as the entity. If you dont believe me, then I recommend watching Pixel Bush's video about him explaining how he chewed more than he could swallow, since he is a huge DND nerd and does a really good analogy and powerscaling of him and The Entity. The mark of negation is only to nerf him DURING TRIALS, as the Entity feeds of emotions and possibly want the trials to be as long and exciting as they can be to have more food. Otherwise, Vecna still has nothing to do against the entity, once youre inside his realm, its all lost for you and youre just his puppet, no matter who you are.
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Most gods are omnipotent within their realms, but the entity have shown so sign of being even remotely as powerful outside of it, since even the process of snatching away a normal human takes some time and in plenty of cases could have been avoided by a human with previous knowledge.
Nor it its omnipotent if it needs feeding to survive.
Vecna is a full god. Not in the christian sense but in the greek or nordic sense of gods.
Vecna held the entity at bay with little effort until he willingly allowed the entity to take it.
This is completely canon.
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being omnipotent is being really or all powerful, you can be omnipotent and need sustainance . Also the entity, as mentioned in the lore entries, has destroyed entire worlds outside of his realm, this happened in terra dark where he destroyed and took a world by plaguing it with giant monster spiders. As I said in my other post, I recommend watching Pixel Bush video about as he can explain it better than I do and he's a huge DND nerd. Vecna cannot be compare to the Entity as the Entity is the equivalent of Ao, the maximum deity and the creator of the universe of DND. It's the best comparison we can do since it is the most similar thing to the entity and in the DND world Vecna has nothing to do against it. Adding to the fact, Ao, if Im not mistaken, isnt a multiversal being like the Entity, it only has power over his own universe, while the Entity can have control over entire realities because it is out of time and space.
Post edited by edgargarciabe660 on0 -
Hardly disagree on the end there, there are plenty of killers that can bypass the entity restraints and kill without a offering. So there's the hatch and the Vigo's things.
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Killing a surv by other means than hooking is not bypassing the entity, those actions produce emotions that are also beneficial to it, you have the thrill of the hunt and joy the killers get while killing a surv without hooking and then you get the despair and hopelessness of the survs at the time of their dying. As for hatch, it was created by Vigo, but the entity left it there because it can act as a beacon of hope or a last resort for them to escape, meaning that it's also beneficial because it gets emotions out of its creation.
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Not at all. Ao would erase the entity from existence with a blink.
The entity is yet another lovecraftian horror, and, i repeat it again, Vecna have no problem restraining the entity until vecta decided to willignly let it take him.
Full stop. This is completely canon, and no theories from anyone can go against it.
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We don't really know if Pinhead can actually leave the realm or not or if the Survivors actually gets sent to hell or not though, his voicelines are not enough to tell us since most of them are just mostly references to the first movie.
For all we know, Pinhead could be believing that he's sending Survivors to hell, but actually doesn't do so as The Entity always returns them to the campfire instead since it doesn't allow anyone to actually leave unless it desires so.
Edit: I'm actually pretty sure Pinhead can't leave because the box doesn't function as it normally would when used.
The Lament Configuration is the Cenobite's main way of creating a gateaway between Hell and wherever the box is located at. If the box is solved, then the gateaway opens and if it's reset, the gate closes and sends the Cenobites back, however because the box has clearly been tampered with by The Entity itself to disappear whenever it's interacted with (as in the trials and in Pinhead's lobby animation), it would essentially mean that that it can't be used to go back and unless Pinhead by some chances acquires a different means of creating a gateaway to Hell, both he and any Cenobite he summons from Hell is pretty much stuck in the realm indefinitely.
Post edited by Smoe on3 -
Oooooh that Sneaky Entity!
But yeah, I suppose Pinhead could be under the belief that his victims are being sent to Pinworld but that's just what the Entity is "showing" Pinhead/the player and it's not actually happening.
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Personally given how omnipotent Freddy seems in certain movies (especially Freddy's Dead, but that's not exactly the best example as most people hate that movie and to be fair it is pretty bad), I was surprised The Nightmare didn't need a Mark of Negation. (Though that's a combination of, BHVR hadn't thought of that plot point yet and Freddy seems to be the character with the most mandates restricting what can be done with him)
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Vecna is the strongest. It's possible the Mark of Negation only limits his powers within the realm, but he can leave at any time. Vecna appears to even have constructed a laboratory in the depths of those ruins where he spends his time studying the realm.
The Cenobite is close behind, but he doesn't have the intellect of The Lich to understand, nor the magic to harness. The Cenobite also has no Mark of Negation which implies to me The Entity doesn't see it as a threat to the realms.
The Lich has time on his side. Once he understands the Auric Cells, The Lich will become an extreme threat.
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Entity is basically equivalent of Dark Powers from Ravenloft which have rather vague power level but can directly block influence of any diety so Ao killing entity are not option
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Not really, you just pulled that out of your ass. Theres nothing indicating anywhere near that powerlevel for the entity.
In any piece of the lore.
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At least read lore before making such assertion
Here some direct statements of about Entity power:
Arcus 142
The Entity is the cosmic embodiment of evil. Back home we witnessed how its very presence turns worlds inside out… how it seems to remove or extinguish any sense of empathy or compassion within communities… how it brings people to the brink of madness and… well… pushes them in. Now I understand it does all this in order to rip victims from their lives and have them play out an endless trial of terror that it presumably needs for its own survival. And there, perhaps, lies the key to its destruction… if an Ancient can be destroyed at all.
End the trials. Destroy its ability to sap dark nectar from victims like a cruel parasite feeding from a flower. At least the Archives affords me a better understanding of the Entity… why it moves from universe to universe, picking victims off and devouring worlds as though at a cosmic buffet. What I have yet to conclude is whether it is attracted to worlds that are brimming with darkness and madness or if it is in fact the catalyst of such darkness and madness.
Arcus 328
There is a curiosity at the core of every thinking person. A need for knowledge from uncharted and unknowable territories, but what is discovered in those blank spaces of the abyss... of the cosmos are things far too immense to understand. Things better left unobserved lest they undermine our sanity. Better to embrace ignorance than face the truth of our insignificance in the grand scheme of it all. Against the vastness of the infinite we are mere microbes swirling in an endless, indifferent cosmic stew. I say stew… but The Entity is probably more of a blood pudding.
Arcus 293
Things could have been worse. I could have been banished in a dimension without Auric Fog containing the memory imprints of countless victims, memories that keep me entertained and busy with my coin and spirit collections... and the music... the variations from parallel worlds... it helps pass the time. In a twisted way I think what I'm admitting is that I'm glad The Entity takes what it wants when it wants from the omniverse.
Arcus 07
There are things of the Abyss that are left unexplored and undiscovered. Things beyond our understanding. For to see or hear or try to comprehend them is to lose one's grip on reality and plunge into a fathomless pit of madness.
Of The Entity I know little, if anything at all. What I have witnessed and concluded through my imprisonment within its timeless living boundaries, is The Entity seems to move through the cosmos like a primordial Titan. An incomprehensible Serpent of Chaos, consuming people and worlds for reasons I cannot even begin to comprehend... and won't even try
Arcus 08
Fate. What is fate, but a series of moments and choices that define our lives? Roses we want to remember? And thorns we can never forget?
Futile as the thought experiment is, I sometimes wonder where I would be had I made different choices. I sometimes wonder, if I had not been interested in Celestials, would I have even noticed The Entity?
Had I not witnessed the destruction of an entire world, would I have wanted to know more? Had I not gone against The council, would I have been banished within the very thing I'd tried to destroy?
There is a moment in all of our lives, when our choices catch up to us. A moment that changes us forever. A moment... of reckoning!
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Very interesting, i admit, but makes no sense at all.
Think for a second.
If the entity can just grab a planet and terraform it at its leisure…. Whats the point of the trials?
Why create a miniplace with 4 guys and a killer generating emotions, when you can easily snatch AN ENTIRE PLANET, put no work on it, and have billions of people and millions of killers generating emotions?
If the entity can manipulate entire planets, the trials makes absolutely no sense.
Its putting more work for literally hundreds of million times less return.
Not to mention, omnipotent beings shouldnt need to feed, which the entity canonically needs, and vecna canonically stopped the entity until he allowed himself to be taken.
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That is basically what happens Entity grab beings and then put them on trials and then milk both killer and survivors until they became completely broken which makes the trials its digestive system and that happens to almost anyone who Entity directly consumed so that is a lot of beings. And dont forget that trials with generators is basically abstraction they not always work that way also Entity isnt omnioptient it just very stong
As for Vecna:
A sick curiosity overcoming him, he dropped his concentration, and let the fog take him. Whatever it was, wherever it was, he understood that the only way to harness it was to submit to it. He knew, in his cold, unbeating heart, that its dark secrets would one day be his.
He accepted Entity terms and sumbitted to fog so currently he on the Leash due mark but he aim to break free eventually0 -
Yeah, but again, if the entity can do that on a planetary scale, its stupid to do so in a dramatically smaller scale.
Why stalking and carefully selecting one being here, and one being there, if you can open a massive maw and swallow the entire planet?
Something doesnt add up.
Yes, he accepted to be taken by the entity, and aim to break free once he had learned all there is to learn from it.
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Because it is a process, and the trials are part of that process.
A lot of beings, especially in cosmic horror, tend to exert their influence over a location before destroying it, much like the entity.
In dredge, (the fishing horror game not the killer), the overarching antagonist known as The Deity spreads its corruption, madness, and evil influence just as a byproduct of existing. Fogs of madness layer the sea at night. Creatures that range from moderately reasonable mutations to biological impossibilities swim through the oceans. Waterspouts and vines, can become sentient. The book that contains the ritual to wake it up also seems to be alive in some way. And it is only when it is released from from depths of the ocean, that it ravages The Grey Isles, with nothing to hold back its influence.
Ghroth, an outer God from the cthulhu mythos, floats through the universe, destroying planets. It does this by waking other great old ones and outer gods sleeping on the planet, as well as bringing natural disasters that only get worse those closer he gets to the planet.
Nyarlathotep, another outer god, destroys worlds by taking on the form of somebody in power, such as a king or politician, and through propaganda, deception, and manipulation, brings the dominant species of a planet to bring forth their own apocalypse.
Chaos from Castlevania, the antithesis of God, grants certain individuals such as Dracula its power (shoutout to @FreddyVoorhees for that information).
All of these beings exert their influence over a location before they destroy it completely, whether it's on purpose or accident.
Similarly, the entity also spreads this influence over the worlds it consumes before it actually destroys them, and we can see that mentioned in the Arcus entries.
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There is many reasons for that :
First thing is that process of consuming world is pretty much mystery for us but most likely it isn't something that happens instantly and require some preparation or at least time
Second reasons is that if
Entity consume world instantly it won't be able to get anything from it anymore so no survivors and no killers and other stuffThird reasons is that there seems to be a ways to repel Entity
I suppose there other reasons as well like maybe in some cases Entity like to view worlds and what happens inside them much like observer
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Also Vecna lore don't mention him becoming god so i suppose Vecna that Entity has taken was from time when he wasn't God but just very powerful lich-wizard but there is also his hand and eye that only come to existence as artifacts during his ascecntion to godhood
Post edited by Vasyazx on1 -
And most of them (the ones we know) are far from omnipotent or at vecnas level.
The deity could be effortlessly nuked by modern technology, the abominations were far from invincible, they were just big monters.
The vast majority of the mythos creatures, with few exceptions, were either powerful, but not that much (cthulhu was seriously wounded by being runned over with a boat, trapped by having an island on top of him, and several deities were foiled by humans)
(I havent played a castlevania, so ill have to skip this one)
Sure, the process can be slow, why not.
But adding more people to it would cause a larger yield.
Slowly draining a million people is bound to produce more energy than slowly draining a score of them. I never said it cant take their time, just to add more elevents at once.
The entire premise of the trials make sense only if the entity is inmensely powerful, but not divine/godlike.
If it is, all logic behind the trials inmediately falls flat.
And i have no problem with that. Plenty of big bad evils are very powerful but not invincible, like Cthulhu, Sephirot, the gods of flesh and hunger or many eldritch horrors. Its what i always considered the entity to be.
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