There is a decent way to implement basekit Unbreakable
I think most people can generally agree that the basekit Unbreakable PTB proved the idea to be not very healthy for the game if implemented as it was; however, I don't think the concept is unsalvagable.
An issue that's been plaguing the game for a while now is the 2v1 stalemate situation (in which two Survivors are already dead, leaving the Killer to search for the remaining two while they hide without repairing Generators). The problem is that if the Killer wants to go for 4 kills, they have to slug one Survivor while searching for the other in order to prevent the Hatch from spawning, which can be considered to be slow, undesirable gameplay. But I think this situation would be a perfect place to implement the basekit Unbreakable mechanic.
If Survivors could pick themselves up off the ground after two Survivors have been killed/sacrificed, a lot of the issues of this stalemate would go away. Killers would be unable to effectively slug for 4 kills and would have to commit to sacrificing one Survivor and look for the Hatch. While this would make certain challenges that require going for four kills less consistent, there are Hatch offerings that can mitigate this.
The only missing component is that there would need to be some system in place in order to prevent the last two Survivors from hiding indefinitely without repairing any Generators. Perhaps idle crows should trigger more frequently after two Survivors have died?
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This is just a straight buff to people who want to grief in 2v1 scenarios with no downsides. No.
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Why no? it is a survivor buff!!
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Killer shouldnt be forced into letting the last Survivor escape with good chance.
I think the idle crows in general could be buffed. Like if you dont repair at least 5% of gen in 5 minutes you should be exposed to the killer to prevent hiding whole game for minutes in 2v1.
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I mean the best solution is probably one that doesn't even involve basekitting UB.
Allow slugged Survivors to work gens and exit gates while bleeding out.
(This, with a 5s delay on being downed before they can do it, to prevent greed pops into Adrenaline. Also disable slugs from working on something kicked in the last 5s as well to prevent grab into swing and miss.)
That way they can still pump gens and potentially escape, and the Killer is forced to actually kill them instead of BMing.
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There’s no need for it. Best thing is to reduce the bleed out timer by 50% when there are two people left or when all remaining Survivors are slugged with no way to pick themselves up.
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If killers shouldn't be forced into risking an escape, survivors shouldn't be forced into a certain death. If there's not enough progress on the last gen or there's more than 1 gen left when it comes down to a 2v1 situation, it's virtually impossible to finish the gens. Hiding is the only way that there's a least a chance that 1 person gets out via hatch. If you want to fix that, it shouldn't just end up where one side either has a bunch of time wasted or the other side is basically guaranteed to lose. Instead of hatch, once one of the two survivors gets down, maybe something like a 1v1 mode gets initiated or something that's interactive/engaging for both sides.
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This, and to mitigate people from holding the game hostage like this make it so EGC starts after a set period of time (say 20 min)
This is to prevent Survivors from hiding, and also prevents killers from just going back and forth between Survivors until one/both of them bleeds out.
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Yes.
The ability to pick yourself up unlocks only when there are no survivors standing. As soon as one survivor is standing again it deactivates.
This way it only activates when ALL survivors are down. Which means it only comes into play when the killer either slugs all survivors at once, or when slugging for the 4K.
(And even then it doesn't prevent the killer slugging one survivor and then camping that survivor to flush out the one remaining, but it does mean the killer can't slug one and go hunting for the last. This means the killer has to choose between camping the slug or risking the slug getting up when they down the last. The benefit here is that the penultimate survivor found isn't necessarily guaranteed to die if the killer decides to choose risk, which means no more perpetual hiding when it's 2v1)
Regular slugging for pressure throughout the course of the trial is unaffected. If there is a survivor standing, that survivor is still pressured to rescue their teammates.
(Or if they're the last standing survivor, incentivised to take a hook state to give their slugged teammate/s a chance at getting up and making a rescue play. Either way the killer isn't losing pressure as they get a hooked survivor in exchange)
The problematic part of the Unbreakable PTB was that survivors could go down in safe positions and either force a catch-22 situation where the killer couldn't pick them up, or remove pressure by having their teammates help be unnecessary.
This does away with that entirely, and actually solves the main problem that slugging poses, being the extreme trolling cases.
In addition to this, I'd also like basekit yellow Mori, hookstates on the killer HUD, and the ability for survivors to hold the sprint button while down to bleed out 2x faster. Best options for everyone.
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Again a suggestion that solely benefits survivors, what do killers get in return? The hatch offerings are a 50/50 you cant count them as a solution against basekit unbreakable, devs should just not implement any 4k challenges anymore imo and rework the ones that exist.. Then i would be fine with basekit UB.
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I agree with both implementing basekit UB as soon as no survivors are left standing (until at least one stands up) and increasing the idle crows.
If a Killer is only using slugging to increase pressure then at least one survivor will be left standing. If they're slugging because they can't live without a 4K that's their problem. Risk the Hatch; it's not a big deal.
For the idle crow animation when there are only two survivors left change the countdown from being idle to not being in a chase, not cleansing totems, not healing and not doing gens. If survivors are not actually progressing the game they should get idle crows.
If BHVR wants to do something nice for both survivors and Killers with this change it so idle counts as not doing any of the activities mentioned above so locker hopping and hoping for the Hatch is removed as a viable option. Just change the timer to generous at 4 survivors standing and much less generous at 2 survivors left.
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no. if hatch wasn't a thing sure, but it is so absolutely not.
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I actually think that's fine, but it should really be a time limit. Maybe as soon as one is hooked it deactivates, but it can only activate if the Killer refuses to hook for at least 30 seconds? That would prevent 2v1s always giving someone free hatch but not prevent a 4k the second one Survivor is caught off guard and downed within range of another downed Surv.
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