Camping and tunneling are inflating kill rates, and not for the reason you think
I have noticed in many of my games as survivor, if the killer starts camping and/or tunneling, most of the time the survivor just immediately gives up, leading to the match basically being a 4k for the killer. This has happened in probably the last 3 or so of my matches as survivor now in a row.
These strategies aren't inflating kill rates because they are effective, but because they are boring. The survivors just immediately give up on hook or throw themselves at the killer to end the game as fast as possible so that they can queue up and get a killer that doesn't do them.
I suspect that these are actually heavily inflating kill rates for killers.
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There's so many things that can throw off the statistics. Unless BHVR gives us really detailed match info, I don't know how we quantify the impact of most things on overall results. Survivors can throw in various ways, but killers can also do that. Not to mention that matches with a DC don't even count. So if a killer stomps and someone peaces out at the end of the match, that match doesn't get added to the data pool. Not to mention the AFK/bot killers.
We can speculate, but I don't think we will ever really know how much impact these things have in the grand scheme of things.
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With how many survivors give up in my matches I would wager that the kill rates are legitimately probably 5-10% higher on the stat sheet than what they really are because throwing on hook. At least for certain killers.
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How can you say that kill rates are inflated for killers, based on survivors throwing the match, but not take into account for killers throwing matches? Giving hatch, farming, going AFK, bots ect.
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They're not mutually exclusive. Both tunnelling and camping are incredibly difficult to deal with in unorganised play, or in general, even. They can be inflating winrate by both being OP, and by being so awful to play against that they make people quit.
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I don't think i've ever seen a killer throw a match once in over 8 years of this game, a few times they went AFK went the gates got opened after being bullied for 10 minutes straight but they were gonna lose anyways. Farming is something that almost never happens as well I imagine because ive had a grand total of 3, yes three farming matches in the last 2 years. Bots are also free kills that inflate the kill rates as well so that only further proves the point.
Giving hatch is something I haven't thought about but then again is extremely rare from my perspective. Being given hatch once in every couple hundred games on average. And that's only because my username and collecting items for Huntress's and them giving me hatch that way.
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From my perspective when I would play this game, some people would give up when they saw the match was a lost cause. It's pretty easy to tell within in the first minute what the outcome would be. So maybe in the bigger picture it kind of can tell what's going on that particular match. Hence the match may have already been heading in a certain direction, which would have been the same outcome 3/4k. Regardless if the survivors did not give up. Think about it as you said why waste time playing a lost match. So maybe not as inflated as it may seem.
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Your eight years on this game sound like they've been incredibly dry lmao. I can't say my four years have been similar to that. Bots are less common than they used to be, but I've seen quite a lot. Almost always Doctor. Farming isn't too uncommon either.
I get the hatch cos I'm cute af.
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Thats only one reason why i dont give mutch into statistics in DBD.
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Effort it takes to pull off certain things are definitely changes statistics, and the fact survivors throwing is as easy as 1/4 of the team holding M1 thrice really tells a thing
Killers throwing on the other hand, still takes full matches, so it is definitely much less common than survivors throwing, not like they can open gates whenever they want
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Skull Merchant is pretty hard to argue against in regards to quitting boosting statistics.
Farming/Going AFK is a legitimate one, but that's very rare, most killers take at least a 3k, if not 4k. I'd guess and say I've seen a farming killer maybe 1 in 50 games... (and I'm seriously high balling that, my gut says it's more like 1 in 200).
Giving hatch is more common, maybe 1 in 10-20 (depends on the day), however it's impact is also small, as it lowers the killers kill rate from 100% to 75% kill rate. Significant, but not data breaking...
Bots I'm not sure what you mean... DCs for bots tend to increase killrate, because killers an easily manipulate bots and turn the game into an effective 3 Vs 1 by exploiting the bots senstiviry to TR. This happens maybe 1 in 10 games for me.
Survivors quitting via SoH however turns a potential 0-100% kill rate into a near guaranteed 75-100% killrate.... and quitting has become surprisingly common. I consider it a good run to get maybe more that 6 games without someone quitting...
Survivors quitting is way more common, and is far more damaging than these other scenarios that impact the data in my experience, so the point in the OP is still.valid to my mind.
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But there's no way for us to know how often these things occur. We get very little info from the devs, and there's so many ways that kill rates can be an inaccurate display of a character's strength. So if we have no real way of knowing the effect on the game overall, then surely it makes more sense to abstain, rather than state that one type of interaction is throwing off the stats in a major way.
I also think that kill rates are not a great reflection of killer strength, but I can't say what thing is throwing the data off the most, as there's no way to actually know.
When I say bots, I mean the players that pre-programme commands for their killer and just leave the game running. Like when you see a Doctor just spamming power and running around into walls.
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I let the last survivor go (whether hatch or gate) in just about every game unless I have a challenge/daily to get 4 kills or x amount of kills.
And while that might make me an outlier, in my experience as a survivor giving hatch isn't all that rare. I see it maybe 10-20% of the time. Or at least 10-20% of the time the killer is in a position to 4K.
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Ohhh I getcha, killer farm bots.
This is true, this is all my guesstimates based on my in game experience, so it's all purely anecdotal.
I get DC's/SoHs as survivors quite often, I get a fair few when playing killer... and I don't really play provocatively at all, and yet I've still had people quit because they lost a basic m1 mind game Vs. Pig...
I don't often get given hatch though, and I haven't seen a farming killer for months...
But yeah, we never get a complete breakdown of stats, it's always half the picture 😒
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Let me just say that it is very easy to read the writing on the wall.
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Camping and tunneling, two legitimate play styles, are not artificially inflating kill rates. Suggesting otherwise is akin to saying using moris artificially inflates kill rates. These are play styles killers have access to, BHVR has continuously legitimated, and will be a part of the game until the servers shut down.
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I went against an 4 person SWF yesterday, and as soon as they found out that the 2 flashlights, didnt work on me the whole 4 man gave up. - i was not tunneling or camping.
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i need to equip that hex ngl
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I think you are missing the point i'm making.
I'm not saying they are not legitimate strategies. What i'm saying is that the strategies themselves are not actually that good most of the time against survivors who know how to deal with them. What i notice in most of my games is if the killer comes back to the hook after a survivor is unhooked, the unhooked guy often just stands there, lets the killer down them so they can kill themselves on hook to get out of the match. Or if the killer starts camping, they just start trying to kobe and let themselves die.
Let's say hypothetically BHVR released a killer that does the following:
- Moves at 1.0 m/s
- Increases the time it takes to repair generators by 1000%
- Increases the time it takes to open the exit gate by 1000%
- Survivors can permanently see the aura of the killer
Obviously such a killer would be really easy to beat, they move slower than survivors, and you are gonna take forever to down them if you even CAN land a hit. But, this killer would make a 90 second (1 minute 30 second) gen take 15 minutes to do. Meaning if all 4 survivors do separate gens, all they will really do is spend 15 minutes each on a gen, and then another say, 5-10 minutes on the 5th gen, then another 3.5 minutes opening the exit gate. However, this would also result in the most boring match of DBD for everyone involved.
This would result in an extremely boring 30+ minute match. Now i would imagine that survivors would often not like to play against said killer, so what they might do, is just throw themselves at the killer, so they can kill themselves on hook and quickly move to the next game. The reality is, this killer would be massively "underpowered" in the sense that, when played correctly against, survivors should 4 man escape literally every time.
So lets say we play 100 matches with this killer, and in 80 of them, the survivors just throw themselves at the killer so they can quickly move on to the next game, and in 20 of the matches, the survivors properly play out the game and get 4 escapes. This results in the killer getting 320 kills while survivors escape 80 times over the course of these 100 matches. This would then show that this killer has an 80% kill rate, making them one of the "strongest" killers ever released in the game.
THIS is ultimately my point, is that survivors giving up when they don't like something, or when they find it boring, or they don't like the killer, or they get quickly outplayed in the first chase, or they are trying to do a tome challenge to like, stun the killer, and they find out they are playing against a nurse or something who is very hard to stun, so they just give up and move on to the next match as fast as possible.
What this does is massively inflate kill rates. Sometime in the next few weeks, i'll be doing an experiment to see how often these types of things actually occur in my games as both sides to see if kill rates are actually being inflated.
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I agree, the kill rates and stats are really jacked on both sides. People giving up heavily inflate kill rates, while hatches also inflate survivor escape rates, having those things skew the stats of kill and survival rates dramatically.
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+1
This is a great example of how kill and escape rates get jacked, the stats they go off are just way too finicky to balance everything off.
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Camping and tunneling work against all survivors at every level of play. High MMR survivors still lose to camping and tunneling; several notable killer players (including Otzdarva, whose content I know you enjoy) have shown this time and time again. These strats aren’t just effective against baby survivors. Part of a higher killer’s skill expression might be knowing when to use them while a lower-skilled killer might use them all the time (as they’ll still work against opponents), but the fact is they are still incredibly valuable tools at every level of play.
Survivors give up against camping and tunneling because trying to resist them are usually fruitless endeavors. There’s no way to stop a killer from doing either. There are some perks that can delay or prolong, but nothing outright stops it. Even rushing gens doesn’t help because the survivor who is camped or tunneled will still die.
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So what? Killers have ways to screw up statistics the same way, and nobody ever mentiones them. Its always just the bad bad survivors. Also as long as devs dont come up with solutions to the underlying issues and people can use them as strategy its fine, right?
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I guess why not just remove self unhook attempts in a PTB and see if it changes the kill rate or not? If it does, then suiciding on hook is the problem. If it doesn't, then it's Killers camping and Tunnelling that's the problem.
This is an easy thing to test but I just don't think it's only the fault of two tools the Devs have repeatedly added changes to or nerfed, and consider basic Killer tools that are part of the game.
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