Weave + Franklin's + Hoarder + Human Greed = Lulz
If you haven't tried this combination yet, do yourself a favor and give it a go. Win or lose, you'll have a good time.
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works on low mmr
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Yeah it's a funny one. Kind of overwhelming with all the auras you see. Chests, items, loud noise notifications from people moving said items, and auras of survivors.
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Yea I mean I dont really know what that has to do with a broken permanent aura read but sure? Maybe?
Not really sure what toolboxes or flashlights have to do with it.4 -
Exactly lol I've stopped bringing items completely because killers don't seem to bring F+WA unless the whole team has items (it's pretty much in 100% of my games when there's 4 items, about 40% when there's 3, and I've only seen it twice in a game with 2 items or less). Not because I care about my items but because of giving the killer permanent aura read. That has a much stronger affect on the outcome of my games than one or two flashlight saves or a short bit of gen progress that will be removed with Pain Res anyway. If the issue was items then just Franklin's would have been the issue beforehand, but it wasn't.
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Hoader is a bit redundant with Weave and Human Greed.
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It's for the 2 extra chests so extra human greed value.
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In my experience, the only people that say this are the ones that want to bring a team of four flashlights, and get upset when they can’t use them. When I SoloQ, I cringe when my team pops in with flashlights because I know the killer is going to run those things.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
Issue is most killers can't really act based on all that information properly and those who can are not really build around M1.
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i found human greed+hoarder to be amazing on nurse. so it seems like that human greed is good m2 killers and weave is good for m1 killers.
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Yeah, because "high MMR" is filled with comp teams practicing for their 100k tournament the next day.
Lets stop this "High MMR, Low MMR" crap yeah?
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The counter for Weave is really easy, is it really a problem for you to pick up the item and move it to another part of the map?
I dont play exclusive killer, i think im 70% survivor and 30% killer atm. But that have nothing to do with the fact that the counter for Weave is easy.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
The counter to weave is really easy, "just pick up your item".
okay lets reuse that same logic on, clearly, broken things in the past, and honestly now as well.The counter to DH is really easy, just wait it out
The counter to eruption is really easy, just let go of the generator
The counter to ruin is really easy, just hit great skill checks.
The counter to Buckle up + FTP is really easy, just wait it out or bring exhaustion addons/perks
The counter to Nurse is really easy, just break line of sight.
The counter to Sadako 2.0 is really easy, just grab a tape.
etc..
You can continue defending broken things based on "well the counter to it is just this", that's fine if you want to do that im not trying to take your opinion away. But it doesnt stand up to anything else that is clearly broken in this game, and was changed because of it by the developers.
And who asked on the percentages of what you play or dont play?6 -
- The problem with old dead hard was not dead hard itself for dodging a hit, the problem was dead hard for distance, which literally had no counter.
- Eruption in a vacuum was actually probably fine, the problem was it being stacked with a bunch of other gen kick perks during a time of 3 genning. If they brought back eruption today the same way, i don't think it would be complained about nearly as much especially since it doubles the break events on a gen so it can really only be used 4 times at most on the same gen.
- Also, it wasn't so much that 3 genning was uncounterable, it just lead to unhealthy gameplay on both sides. Things can be totally balanced from a win/loss perspective and still be a problem, for example perks like Knock Out.
- The problem with old ruin was actually that it "WASN'T" that easy, especially for new players. Old ruin had the problem of being too good against new players, and bad against good players who could hit those skill checks, or could quickly cleanse the totem. And the difficulty of countering it was not proportional to the difficulty in using it. Old ruin would just work if you had it without any input involved.
- Buckle up + FTP is not a simple "wait it out" because the timer was more than enough time for both players to get to safety, it wasn't possible to wait it out, it was completely uncounterable, and i'm confused why you think exhaustion perks stopped someone from instant healing with FTP, maybe you have no idea what these perks even do?
- As a nurse main, i'll be one of the first to tell you that nurse is a problem, so that's not really gonna work here.
- The counter to sadako is actually easy, literally just grab a tape. It's more of a knowledge check than a skill based one.
The general gist though on things, is, do they have a counter that is accessible for most players, I.E. doesn't require massive skill to overcome vs how easy the thing is to use (if its equally hard to use, having a difficult counter is fine) or something that is locked behind a DLC or something. That is bad
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Yea that's the point of all these being listed.
Is that its not as simple as the "just do this" argument framework. Theres more to them than "just pick it up…" sort of logic.
For aura permanent area read around an item you can apply this same critical analysis. You "cant just pick the item up" as you may not know where your teammates got hit, not every map is even easy to see the floor much less disern an item on it.
And I cant control where and who got hit, and if my teammates decided to get hit but just not "pick their item up".Why am I, yet again, being punished for what someone else refuses to do?
This is the kind of pushback from the community that makes me laugh, when they complain about SoloQ's state, but direct solutions to help mediate those problems get challenged by those same voices.
And old eruption, 0 activity for 25s is what I am talking about. Absolutely no that should never come back.4 -
See and here is where i'll disagree with you,
Weave + franklin's counter IS easy and it is obvious when it is in play.
- First, you see an icon when it actually is revealing your aura.
- Second, you DO know where YOU got hit, maybe your teammates don't but you do, so you should know where that item is.
- Third, it does not actually help the killer in that chase. The range on it is 12 meters. The speed boost you get for 150% movement speed last 1.8 seconds, and the killer is wiping their weapon for 2.7 seconds.
- So, for 1.8 seconds you move 6 m/s and for 0.9 seconds you move 4 m/s.
- (1.8 * 6) + (0.9 * 4) = 14.4 meters
- So, for 1.8 seconds you move 6 m/s and for 0.9 seconds you move 4 m/s.
- 14.4 meters is more than 12, and you SHOULD be using your speed boost to get somewhere safe you will be well out of range
- So now when you get saved, or lose the killer, or otherwise have a second, you go back to the area you were hit (someplace you probably already want to be since you likely were hit near an objective of yours), pick up your item, walk it a little to the edge of the map and press R.
- Each survivor has to do this once and it should take you an extra maybe 5-10 seconds and now the killer has 2 perks.
I would suggest 2 things for you, first, play a game as killer with these 2 perks, and really see how ineffective the combination actually is. It really is bad, like super bad, the aura reading is so short. I do not run this perk combo, so i have no dog in this fight, because this perk combo is not actually that good and it has such a simple counter.
Secondly, i would suggest just loading up a custom game as trapper with some bots, and go to the edge of the map, then face out into the map, and do 2 lunges. THAT is 12 meters. And you'll realize just how short 12 meters actually is in this game.
EDIT: i'll do you one better, i'll record a video right now and do a little photoshop magic to really show you how short of a range this thing has.
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Here you go, this is 12 meters:
You'll see that it barely is enough to cover a large part of a single non-main building structure, its about the size of a killer shack's inside (not even the outside). This range is so massively short it is not even funny.
Now, i'll work on playing a match right now, no editing, with me running these 2 perks, and show you how little value i get out of it. And then i'll play a match with a MUCH better aura detection perk like, no where to hide, and you can see the massive difference in value these perks give.
I'm in queue right now as wraith, so a killer that will always land m1s to get the franklin's value and can sneak up so it'll be more likely that the item drop happens nearby something useful.
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Welp we are an at impasse.
1)The icon tells you, so what? That doesnt mean anything when you are stuck at a loop and having permanent wall hacks on you.
2)Again not all maps are easy to see the ground. You can remember where you got hit but that doesnt mean you have pin point accuracy of where specifically you did. And you may not have the option to pick it back up depending on pressure, killer traversal…
3)It tremendously helps the killer in chase, what??? At different points in chase as well, it tells you where they run right after they turn a wall after being hit. And then at the end of chase where you can wall hack your way to a hit as they are standing at check spots.
The perk essentially closes that area down until someone picks the item up.
I would suggest several things for you.
First, dont tell others to run the perk to see how it actually works, and then in the same breath say you dont run the perk either. Like what is this response/assumption here lmfao. Noone understands the perk that doesnt use the combo but… you who also doesnt run the combo does? Apparently? What is this response? Very odd.Second, why would I purposefully make the worst decision of where to use/test the perks range, to determine how strong something is? You're ignoring context of the perk and why its strong/broken here, I cant say if its on purpose to be honest but sheesh, you picked the one time where the perk is useless and in the one place where 9.99999/10 people will not be getting hit.
Its essentially the same distance as wiretap, 12 vs 14. It works multilevel, it works around loops.Noones getting hit on the edge of the map for the most part, they are getting hit within the actual play space. Should you test something based on where it will actually happen and not some worst case scenario of where it WONT happen? Yea probably test where it will happen.
You are also ignoring the secondary consequence of picking up that item if you choose to do it. The killer saw you do it, and now you dont know if they are coming for you, for 30 seconds.
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That's ridiculous. I don't run the perk meaning i have never run it and didn't try to make it work? I played dozens and dozens of matches if not more attempting to make it work, but it just never gave me any more value than nowhere to hide did. I'm saying i "don't run the perk" now because it is bad. Believe me, after 4k+ hours i have tried every possible build you can think of in attempt to get different things to work.
I am uploading the video of my match now with weave, and you'll see that the entire match it landed me maybe 1 hit, arguably 2. Now i'm in queue for my nowhere to hide match, and you'll see the difference in value they provide.
The second part was me simply demonstrating the range of it, not telling you to use it as trapper. Its an example to show the range. The video i linked lays the traps down in 4 cardinal directios 12 meters apart, so you can see if the trap in the middle was the item, the area that would be revealed.
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Okay you did not just load up a match with bots to try to justify anything. Please tell me you didnt just do that….
You know whats funny about bots?
THEY HAVE BUILT IN WEAVE ATTUNEMENT EVERYWHERE THEY GO LOL.
So yea the perk will probably do next to nothing against them.
Cmon. And a sample size of one will not help here.
And at 4k hours you did not run every perk setup… hiyaaaa…. I dont want to correct everything in that post. Cmon….
Edit: And after watching that video, what are you even trying to show here? You standing in the middle of the road and smacking the air, therefore weave attunement isnt powerful…
Please…. help… someone….Im losing health states with this….1 -
Second match needs to be redone, a survivor dc'ed immediately
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OMG PLEASE LITERALLY WATCH THE VIDEO.
I was not loading a match with bots to play against them with weave, i loaded up that trapper match to show you what 12 meters of distance looks like with the traps. Please pay attention.
The other matches i'm playing against real players, i have a weave attunement game uploading and working on getting a nowhere to hide one.
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You obviously aren't reading what i'm showing you.
The range on Weave attunement is 12 meters in a bubble. So imagine the trap in the middle is an item, a lunge is 6.21 meters, so 2 lunges is 12.42 meters, so i lunge twice, turn around walk slightly a bit, and that is going to be "close" to 12 meters. Do that in the 4 cardinal directions, and now you can draw an imaginary circle around that item and see the actual range of 12 meters.
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Dead hard for distance is a great analogy.
Remember when you just had to assume everyone was running the perk, because it was required to play around it? And no matter what you ended up having to play suboptimally whether they did or not. If you counter by not bringing the item you're just doing that exact same thing.
You can risk that they might not have it, but if they are running the perk, you have to waste additional time going out of your way for no reason. In fact, the extra time wasted more than makes the perk worth it.
It's impossible to not get value from it, even if your opponent plays optimally.
At least dead hard was only usable in player pvp interactions and required active use. Weave combo is entirely passive and takes nothing more than equipping the perk in the lobby.
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Dead hard for distance had literally no counter, weave does. You pick the item up and move it to a different spot.
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I'm uploading the videos now of me playing with weave and another match with nowhere to hide. It'll take a bit but once its uploaded i can show you how little value i got out of weave and how much i got out of nowhere to hide.
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I am perfectly reading what you are posting and the example video you are using is again ignoring why the perk is powerful in the first place. You a stripping things down so far that I am having trouble finding a comparable example; as this is reductive thinking on steroids.
You uploaded the same horrible example you did when you told me to lunge at the end of the map.
This. Is. Not. What. Is. Happening. In. Game.And. There. Is. More. To. The. Perk. Than. Its. Range.
This would be like uploading a video of someone letting go of a generator prior to it getting hit by eruption. And being like "SEE HOW EASY THIS IS?"
There was more to old eruption of "just letting go of the generator.." same with "just grab a tape…" and "just wait it out…'
Weave attunements 12 meter range is not where the perk starts and stops, there's more to it than the range at which it works. This concept seems to be a bit lost on you though.
"Well its two lunges in distance in a square, SEE??" is what you are responding with.
Like what is anyone supposed to say to that test?I'm uploading the videos now of me playing with weave and another match with nowhere to hide. It'll take a bit but once its uploaded i can show you how little value i got out of weave and how much i got out of nowhere to hide.
Please refrain from doing it if its another video of you smacking the air…
And you just admitted to not running the perk above… please stop it hurts….Do you think, this may seem pretty wild, that if you dont run a perk combo much like you said here;
I do not run this perk combo
that you probably dont get much value out of it… because you dont know how and where to use it properly???
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- I was simply pointing on one fact about the perk, which is its range. Most people see 12 meters and they don't think about physically what that represents in the game, so that video is my demonstrating to you exactly how big it is (hint: its not that big)
- Secondly, based on that range, you have to refute any of the other points i made around how much distance a survivor gets when being hit, the fact that there is an icon showing that you are in its radius, the fact that you simply have to spend 5-10 seconds picking the item up and walking it to a corner and then the killer has 2 perks
- 3rdly, again, when new stuff comes out i spend dozens and dozens of hours testing out different things and combinations. I have 4k+ hours on this game my experience allows me to pick up these things very quickly. And, based on your own assertions, how can one "not use the perk combo correctly" since it "just works" please explain that one to me
- Lastly, my assertion is that this perk combo requires you to take 2 perks to get any value, and i'm saying that the value you get from these perks is not non existent, but that you would be MUCH better off and get far mor value running something like nowhere to hide, or just running 2 more slowdown perks instead.
Post edited by BoxGhost on7 -
My kid woke up from nap early today so I need to go handle that. I'll post the videos for you later tonight once he's asleep.
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Who asked?
And quite honestly, you need to focus on what is actually said and what actually happens with perks.
1. We understand its range, loading up a match and swinging at the air doesn't mean anything here. You're wasting your time doing this. Unless you are making assumptions about what people know/dont know, which case you should probably just stop doing that.2. Someone gets hit, they obviously dont stand on top of where they just got hit. The idea of the perk is anyone who may come back, or are in the area UNKNOWINGLY, will provide you with that information. That includes the person walking back to try to get their item if they choose to do so. It also helps on corner or zoned hits, you know if someone just hugs the same loop with quick and quiet or someone is crouching around a down etc… franklins only works on m1, so if your initial hit was an m2 you have a pretty good idea if people are ready to flashlight save…
This 2nd point here illustrates the lack of depth you are having when approaching this perks power and its combo with franklins. Which would come with experience in using it.
3. Who asked again…? Honestly this doesn't mean anything. Streamers who play this game for a living can spending thousands of hours on this game and not know something until their chat mentions it, and they have more hours than you and I combined. Is this some form of grandstanding ? Just edit that out of your conversation.
And use the perk correctly? And just works? What ?
….ughOkay first, who said it "just works" anywhere in this thread?
Use the perk correctly?
Okay, so if you are running franklins+weaveabroken youll probably want to POSITION those hits strategically rather than just hitting m1 "because me see survivor! me click! me hit! me happy now!" do I really have to explain what I mean by using a perk correctly?
This would be like chasing someone with legion to the edge of the map, with half your feral power still available and hitting them there, rather than waiting for them to run closer towards the center or looping inwards. IYKYK
You can m2 someone (depending on the killer of course) if you dont feel like the position of the item will be any help. You are running two perks afterall you probably want the item to help.
Theres a bunch to unpack here, but I dont think I have to explain further, if you play killer as much as you say, that yes you need to use the perk combo correctly. Which you probably dont know how to, based on this comment above:I do not run this perk combo
Practice makes perfect.
4. Yea maybe for YOU thats true. Sure. Im not gonna deny that may be the case for you.2 -
the difference is that all stuff you named was LEGIT hard to counter while weave is legit black white easy to counter. the other aspect is that weave gaining value /= killer auto-winning unlike eruption and ruin which were closer to gain value → win game perks.
I can equip weave on killers and all it does is allow me to watch myself lose. i can see people on gens with 4 of these perks but at the end of the day, your unable to make any impact with them.
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It wasn't difficult to "just wait it out" either. The survivor still got really good value by the killer "countering" their perk. Weave has the exact same problem.
You can not bring an item, but then you're intentionally hurting yourself on the chance the killer has this combo (which is value even if the killer isn't running it).
If you do have an item, then the "counter" is to reveal yourself to the killer at the start of the match, become oblivious, and spend something like 30 seconds doing a side task to drop that item somewhere safe. That's lethal pursuer, corrupt intervention (you can't just do gens right away) and you have to waste additional time and free aura reading later if you actually want to use your item.
And that's "countering" the perk. If "countering" the perk is still at least two perks worth of value, that's obscene.
It has nothing to do with how "easy" the counter is, because the counter physically can't be any "easier" than equipping the perk itself in the lobby. You don't even have to activate or earn this thing, it just gives value because you bought the DLC.
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the whole point of the perk is to punish items. your upset that the perk punishes item when that is the entire identity of the perk. you also don't need to drop it at the start of the match, you can wait till killer begins a chase. Another thing to talk about is that most of gens are often in the corner of the map. So unless your like me that just goes in the center of the map to bait chases, your not really wasting time because you had to walk to the gen regardless.
BVHR is nerfing the perk regardless. the only question is if they're deleting the perk from existence or giving fair change where it is worse but not completely irrelevant. weave was 8 meters in ptb before it was buffed to 12 meters, i am hoping they just revert it to 8 meters and keep aura reading unlimited unlike human greed with its 3 second duration. at the same time, human greed does work with nurse so it does make a little sense that the perk is weaker as it is balanced around nurse using it.
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Very clever and fun build on Lich specifically, I somehow achieved 4K on the first try! Do you have any more to propose?
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