Major Anti Camp buffs are Coming!!!
Paulie ester in his latest video revealed confirmed changes from BHVR in Lights out Gamemode will receive 2x Anticamp range and 60 seconds of Endurance off hook basekit!
These are huge changes that i hope will come to normal dbd matches!
Comments
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In normal, it would be too much.
In lights out, it can work a bit better since killer is undetectable. The reason it should NEVER come to normal DBD is due to survivors weaponizing the free 60 seconds to bodyblock killers trying to spread hooks.Post edited by ChaosWam on34 -
They do that already with OTR though? so by that logic OTR needs to be nerfed? Like yeah its gonna be weaponized but conspicous actions will keep it from going crazy
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So free OTR makes it fine?
And yeah, OTR's problem is the bodyblocking.20 -
It never is a problem, more of a mild nuisance. If they want to open themselves up to tunneling, this is them giving you a free pass to do so. This is the one of the only times I 100% endorse tunneling (I guess also 2 Survivors alive, and you want the rescuer to get Hatch is another).
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That's kinda why it's a problem.
At best, it's paired with DS to waste the killer's time as much as possible, especially against killers trying to spread hooks.
At worst, the survivor dies quickly and loses their entire team's pressure against killers who would tunnel. It's not healthy either way.
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They won't. I guarantee the escape rate on the last Lights Out was crazy bad, that's why survivors are getting so many buffs
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Which is why they need to adjust that. Its also a perk. Not given free like in lights out.
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you realize these changes will be put into normal mode eventually? remember 60 second of endurance also comes with 10% haste for 60 seconds, so if you try tunnel people, you're going be in a world pain. BVHR is really putting the gas on peddle. Anti-camp and Anti-tunnel features.
There is certainly going to be A LOT less tunneling and camping in this mode. that is for sure.
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I'm fine with anticamp getting a little buff but this would just be way too much for normal and way too abusable.
Shouldn't be the point of anticamp to give every survivor base OTR so they can run across the map after the unhook and tank a hit for their teammate that the killer, that wasnt even camping, is chasing and all that without having to use a survivor perk slot for it.
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That's not the problem though. As I said in my other posts, it's weaponizing them that's the issue, IF it comes to main game.
For Lights Out, it makes sense due to how Lights Out functions.
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I really, really hope this is true.
My main issue with Lights Out is that camping was really easy. In most of my games, it would be really unfun since the Killer would just stay near the hook with effectively basekit Insidious and immediately tunnel as soon as I got unhooked.
Chases in general are made more easy when you cannot see what pallets have and havent been used from far away as Survivor, which by proxy makes tunneling easier.
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i am ecstatic. killers seeing gen auras is a fair trade.
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i don't really mind if they're weaponized. just give me 8 stack of stbfl and rapid brutality. I'll hit borrow time and just gain speed.
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They made free BT with haste buffs so OTR would be fine
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What lights out needs is vanning Legion and Doc
Any change is welcome though
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I think the bigger issue is all it accomplishes is making lower tier killers worse.
Remember, endurance off hook doesn't really help against killers with mobility as is.And to reiterate, I'm talking about if this comes to base game. I do think it can work with Lights Out.
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yes it does. it puts their power on cooldown and 10% haste is severe penalty for all killers nearly. maybe nurse gets a little less effected by change but you have to remember light out also dim vision which is very important for nurse's blinks, so juking is much easier. so even tunneling as nurse might be a poor idea.
If you think it about closely, it is possible the most survivor sided event possible. you will never have harder time playing killer than this event. 0 game-delay perks, top-tier killer don't work, anti-proxy camping and anti-tunneling mechanics forcing you to go for chases and requiring you to win with skill. The only thing they're missing in this event is base-kit unbreakable so they can also delete slugging as strategy. Your better be putting on your A-game as killer. You'll need it.
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Again, that's why I think it works for lights out. I don't disagree on that.
I'm talking about OP saying it should come to base game.
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which is why we need to think of ways to effect high mmr killers and buff low tier killer i really wish devs tested DS killer power disabling as an effect
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i think it will show up in base game. BVHR is testing different type of methods of anti-tunneling and anti-camping to find out which method is best form of nerfing proxy camping and tunneling. the 2vs8 was more artificial type change. make cage more hidden, make it harder to tunnel, and so on. this one is bvhr using more brute force measures. Your going to be punished for proxy camping and tunneling people off the hook.
In my opinion, your likely just going to see a lot of slugging because the killer is like actively being punished hooking and is getting like 0 benefits from hooking. As a result, you might just killer bleed out slug people because…. well killer has to find a way to win right? The killer ain't dumb. I suppose we'll just have to see how it plays out.
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That's what I worry about the most.
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if these changes go to the main game, i forsee a lot of justified slugging, I rather get tunneled. Instead of giving people 60 seconds of endurance, remove the players collision for 60 seconds instead. No weaponizing body blocking that way.
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There's no reason for them to make this stuff basekit. This is typical knee-jerk reacting. The devs spoke out about the last Lights Out event and said that the majority of players tried it and then quickly went back to regular mode. They didn't drop the game completely, just the mode. So as they said in the anniversary stream - they listened to the feedback and made some changes to this one to hopefully keep the players engaged. The vast vast majority of negative feedback came from those trying to play survivor, and I guarantee escape rates were incredibly low. If the situation were the reverse - that kill rates were low - the changes would be killer focused. Circumstances around these limited games modes are not reflective of the standard game mode. Not even close. They're a totally different balancing act.
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im sure it'll show up in some way maybe a nerfed version of it im also sure they will come up with a way to combat slugging like basekit unbreakable or after 30 seconds slugged you can pick yourself up force killers to confirm hooks within a certain time. Unbreakable speed is to fast but i think 30-45 seconds would be fair for both sides
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Something basekit being too strong doesn't mean that a perk version of it is too strong. Getting free effects without a perk slot to compensate for it drastically shifts game balance. While conversely having a perk with effects like OTR is balanced out by the fact it takes up a perk slot.
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They did it with BT they can do it with OTR or DS
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Just because they already did it, does not mean it's a good idea to do it again.
You have to take into account both the upsides and downsides and weigh them against each other. If you make it where killers are punished for spreading hooks by allowing survivors to all ignore their objectives to prevent the killer from taking chase with others, we'll see more slugging to counter it. Then we see slugging nerfed with basekit UB and then things will get even worse.Maybe it will be fine for low MMR/casual matches, but once you hit a certain MMR all your killer games will be filled with survivors trying that. Even now with OTR/DS I get survivors willing to throw entire matches to try and get value.
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You already have nerfed version of it. the complaint is that BVHR isn't doing enough to nerf tunneling and proxy-camping. Killer are still winning games from tunneling and proxy-camping. there is also sentiment that survivor shouldn't need equip decisive strike, off the record, reassurence and so on to combat tunnelling and proxy camping. that is why they're experimenting to give these bonuses base-kit. they're tightening the anti-camping mechanic up and they're buffing anti-tunnel.
they don't need to do anything for slugging because slugging loses to leaving survivor on the floor and doing gens. That is why decisive strike has no counter-play because if you leave survivors on the floor and try time out decisive strike, your applying no pressure to other 3 survivors. they're more likely to buff hooking so that you still want hook as killer such as having pain res base-kit and maybe base-kit surge where every gen begins regressing. something along those lines. that way, your discouraged from slugging and have to play into these anti-tunnel and anti-camp changes.
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you have to consider that if this was implemented in the base-kit mode and killer start slugging, than survivor will just start equiping every anti-slug perk possible because suddenly, those slugging perk now become consistent value perks instead of rare value perks.
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It wouldn't shock me if this made it normal trials. Tunneling would still be beneficial if you get the elimination at 2+ gens remaining, but it carries more risk with this. But with the way maps are being reworked, I have a feeling BHVR is going to say "win chases while spreading hooks or lose", or at least make tunneling detrimental.
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We already have survivors getting value from UB. The problem is killers will have to choose slugging more often than hooking if it gets to the point where hooking is a detriment.
And down the line, I guarantee it will spawn complaints about slugging to the point where UB becomes basekit in some form, and then once we have all that, SWF can abuse the mechanics far more efficiently than the regular folk.
Maybe it's me overthinking it, but I've also been playing this long enough to have experienced it first hand, back-to-back matches of survivors and killers abusing any introduced mechanic. I do hope I'm wrong, more ways for SoloQ to be viable is great, but not with the problems I think will happen.
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Killer main hysteria. I seriously doubt anything like what they’re doing with Lights Out makes it to base game. They might do something to further deter camping and tunneling (maybe in the form of new perks), but they’re unlikely to tweak any basekit features. Like you I think they’re trying to encourage more survivors to play Lights Out.
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if every survivor team is running Boon:Exponential, Unbreakable, Soulguard and Tenacity. you won't really get any value out of slugging. you just get survivor speed-crawling to boons and picking themselves up with self-endurance. So survivor can forced you to hook in which you face these other…. negatives of no proxy camping and no tunneling.
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Can doesn't mean should and can in this case sure doesn't mean balanced
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The value would be the eventual bleedout, as opposed to facing constant bodyblocks against teams willing to abuse it.
Even if they have all of that, if hooking gets bad enough most killers will still risk a survivor or two not running those perks as opposed to every anti-tunnel perk on top of basekit additions. And if anti-slug becomes meta, it still becomes better to slug a few THEN hook in this scenario.
I already get matches where killers will mass-slug if a hook is sabotaged or someone bodyblocks as is.
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what happen if you see entire team use these perks? you could try testing the waters like you do with decisive strike where you purpose risk decisive strikes. In the end, you'll just get punished. Maybe some killer will like try force it by running like knock out and shattered hope but i am not sure at the effectiveness.
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The day I see shattered hope become meta due to this is the day I consider taking a long break, lmao.
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I mean, yeah, I've previously suggested doing stuff like pause Anti-Tunnel Endurance timers in chase and making Anti-Tunnel Endurance not Deep Wound, while also removing collision until CA (and prioritizing the non-unhooked Survivor if they are within one another). That way you can't bodyblock whatsoever, but you have to roll the dice when tunneling into who knows how many Endurance instances they have.
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lmao ur wrong. pyramid head, now dracula, huntress, nemisis, plague in situations, the unknown and the night destroys otr. u can't see the big picture. if they increase the anti camp range on hook then how exactly do i patrol gens when the survivors jus hide in bushes and lockers. and this game is quite literally the definition of insanity.
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So your saying we should remove endurance from basekit unhooks since your so strongly advocating against giving buffs to anti camp and anti tunnel
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they can and they should Survivor side is extremely unfair and stale for them with how rampant tunneling and camping is Killers can take a hit to these bs play styles and get incentives to leave hooks
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giving any of those killer basekits would 100% make survs play way less, BHVR does need to do more to buff anti camp and anti tunnel im gonna have to disagree on your leaving slugging alone though
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Anyone saying this is coming to the base game is either lying or on some serious copeium. This is balanced specifically for a specific game mode in order to make it more fun and motivate people to play it instead of just going right back to the base game.
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"open themselves up to tunneling" isn't a thing with (or even without) the existence of ds. getting baited into a bad tunnel will lose you the match.
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100% agreed, if you play worse than your opposition, you deserve to lose. Although DS is a joke and practically worthless. Nearly every Killer downs you in <10s now since it is so weak. Hatchet down, Shred down, Blight Dash down, Wesker Dash down, Clown Bottle down. So many Killers practically give a free down after DS at this point, that DS should instead stun the Killer and Survivor for 30s each with the Killer able to freely down them after the 30s stun.
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Are we on youtube? Such a clickbait title. :P
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This is the same reaction any time there's literally anything for survivors, and anything that could possibly, even remotely, be used for killer interaction gets twice as much hate, twice as early. And this is in a limited time mode, for crying out loud.
I honestly feel like some people on this forum take the tactic that literally anything survivors can use in killer interactions needs to be torched and complained about incessantly. Then, when the only option is "do gens or die" they revert back to "gens are too fast, nerf everything" and the cycle continues.
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It's just a way to try and compensate for the removal of anti-tunnel perks. I don't think it will end up in the main mode.
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the strong aspect of anti-tunnel is NOT the endurance aspect of unhooking. The endurance aspect only removes disadvantage between chasing an injured survivor and healthy survivor. People tunnel through off the record no problem. The part that is strong in anti-tunnel is 10% haste granted by borrow time. that is anti-tunnel of system. Currently, it is only at 10 seconds. Laughable base-kit anti-tunnel mechanic as this expires so quickly so every killer that hard-tunnels through the haste. When the mechanic get buffed to 60 seconds of 10% haste, then mechanic for anti-tunnel is no longer laughable. It is now highly detrimental to tunnel survivors off hook hence anti-tunnel.
many survivor still complain about tunneling in dbd saying that BVHR doesn't do anything to stop tunneling and proxy-camping. that is why your seeing these experimental changes. If these changes are successful discouraging killer from tunneling off hook and proxy camping near hooks than you'll see BVHR implement into the base game from its outstanding success.
I know it will be successful because there is no chance that i am tunneling off-hook vs 10% faster survivors and there is no chance that i am standing within 24 meters of the hook for survivors to jump off the hook. that is how i know that the mechanic is already successful without even playing it.
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How did you come to that conclusion? Read all my responses.
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