Salty survivors
Literally every single match I played tonight there was at least 1 angry survivor mouthing off post match. I even played survivor a few times to see if other killers had the same experience, turns out they did. It's unbelievable how many survivors get worked up post match over anything and everything. If your one of those salty survivors that tends to mouth off post match (you know who you are) please come up with something better than "touch grass" or "you only won because you tunneled" :)
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They can't help themselves. I get hate mail all the time post match on Playstation. The salt is for real and for what. Take your loss with stride and keep moving. Its really not that serious but then again that is all part of playing an Online Video Game. :D
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I played a nemi game tonight, i havent played nemi for a long time as i quit as killer, but i decided to do a game (i might be going back to nemi). And i had a group that tried everything to stop me from getting hooks, i had LB on due to the bug with flashbangs. They saboed hooks, tried to blind me, tried to bodyblock me and so on. I was sure they would be mad, but i actually got a "gg" after the game.
But i made a sport out of making a fun comeback when they act like that. for example "you are bad" - > "I guess thats why we were teamed up against each other" some times even the other survivors end up laughing. :)
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Because it's all about that "I gotta embarass my opponent, and win doing so" mentality. It's galaxies beyond til you find those fun loving players anymore. Even if you ARE a teammate, if you're not known to the others, screw you for not being their irl mates. Otherwise, they F you over.
End of the day - they all forgot how to have real fun, and let go of that Competitive Edge.
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I love people like this, it's so funny to see them rage even tho 90% of the mistakes made was by them.
I almost never search for the tunnel so if they have been tunneled by me it was them not hiding and or looping well. Camping, I give them that I do it pretty regulary but most of the time only if the hook is positioned good or I can get him second stage, so even then it's on them xD
Most fun people I remember are a russian guy that insulted me because I tunneled him on the worse variation of rpd (for killer) with hillbilly even tho he wanted to be chased and it was his own offering. The other one is a jeff that made himself unhookable at the top of ironworks of missery that I've bled out, he said "sad time where killers just let you bleed out". The last one is a meg with ds and unbreakable that gone down next to the hook intentionally and wanted to ds or use unbreakable to unhook, I've predicted it and got insulted because I've instantly downed her again xD
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I wish they added some type of chat to console.
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Careful with what you wish for, my friend.
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I started playing in 2019 and it was the same back then. For me it is really amusing :) I have like 20+ steam pages full of comments ( 50% good/ 50% bad) and i enjoy the bad ones a lot more…though there are some rough ones in there^^
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I’ve had (although very rare!) the odd “ez”, “you are bad” and I usually reply “yeah, thanks for the feedback, trying to improve” and it really throws the person off lol
I mean, I am bad and trying to improve so its the truth lolPost edited by For_The_People on3 -
it’s just been so long overdue. I’ve lost touch with pc friends because of it.
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Tbh, if a killer wins solely because they are back at hook on the count of three and get all noddy and humpy or they decide to tunnel out one asap with a heap of slowdown to make it 3v1 at 4 gens - and then decide to draw their win out to, I guess, really savour their power trip - or have such bad ping they hit you from so far away it's almost funny again I ain't amused. I'm not a pinata or the mole in a game of whack-a-mole. Usually I move on sooner rather than later in those situations so there's usually no egc for me… but if I'm somehow still around by then I usually opt for a "bro thinks he's playing a tourney" or "Doggy didn't realise there's no leash" for the first two and "my condolences if your connection really is that bad - but if that's vpn or dl in the background, shame on you". — Salty? I don't know, if you like to call it that by all means. For the most part it just annoys the heck out of me and I feel better giving the offender a piece of my mind.
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As killer, I seldom get salt in the chat.
It's so rare that one night, I got unwarranted salt in every single lobby and I came here to ask if it happened to someone else.
I've also noticed that draws give me more salt than 4k victories. I presume some of the survivors good enough to get a draw have unwarranted ego.
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If you tunnel or camp you should expect to get some form of complaint in end game chat regardless of your own opinion if it's okay or not. The only way to truly avoid snidey comments in end game chat is by beating people in a way that they can't complain about I. e not camping or tunneling and getting a 3-4k. Even then you'll still get it from time to time, but it's much more uncommon.
The way some killers play is an issue for the health of the game which often results in people being angry and in turn they let out their frustrations by being abusive. It's exactly the same on the opposite end of the spectrum and killers are also inclined to do it because of survivors being toxic in game. Basically a vicious cycle that can only be changed by some serious changes to some mechanics or by the community playing the game. Until then just except the fact that if you play in a certain way you should expect to get backlash for it.
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There is always something for someone to complain about. The only way to avoid abusive comments in chat is to play how the survivors want you to play, that includes no tunneling, camping, slugging, no using certain perks such as noed, no using certain killers such as Myers, no getting kills. These are all part of the game and should be expected. They are not unhealthy for the game, they are unhealthy for the survivor that just doesn't like something. Killers don't like body blocking to prevent hooks but I don't ever hear the same salty comments from killers "get good, you only won by body blocking"
These survivors that mouth off post match don't do themselves any favours. For me, if I tunnel or camp and someone vents about it I'm thinking "good job I did what I did, would hate for this player to have won with that horrendous attitude"
You also mentioned killers are inclined to do it due to toxic behaviour. But tunneling and camping is not toxic behaviour. That's the difference. Killers will vent when going against toxic players (players who deliberately set out to make the game miserable for the opponent) because they are not trying to play the game, they are trying to be toxic. Killers that tunnel and camp are not deliberately trying to make the game miserable for the survivors they are just playing the game, going for kills. The point is killers vent over true toxicity, survivors vent over literally everything and put everything down to being toxic when it's not. The whole meaning of toxic players has been lost due to literally everything that results in a killer winning being considered toxic, which results in abusive chat.
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It’s not specific to one side, you will experience “salt” anywhere. Part of it is just gaming culture, not that I support it. If you really were tunneling then some frustration is to be expected but many times survivors claim tunneling when it really isn’t. I wouldn’t let it bother you. Sometimes people get frustrated. Not long ago I got yelled at in egc because I was using WoO. The killer said that perk is the reason they lost the whole match. So, you know, sometimes it’s best just to not interact.
You never know what someone is going through on the other side of the screen.
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There's a reason why the survivor pudding is heavily salted
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Tunneling & camping is toxic. You either haven't played survivor enough to see how it negatively effects all aspects of survivor gameplay or are trying to justify it because you use it as a crutch to win games. Just because it's not against the rules doesn't make it any less toxic. Good killers don't need to tunnel or camp. When it doesn't happen games significantly more enjoyable.
You mentioned that if you tunnel or camp and someone says something to you then you're glad you did it because they apparently have a bad attitude. However that might have been the 5th game in a row that person got camped or tunneled by bad killers and they're venting their frustrations. Doesn't mean they have a bad attitude just sick of an outdated mechanic that many people rely on as a crutch to win matches. I wouldn't even say tunneling is the main thing anymore I've seen much more proximity camping happening these days often resulting in 1 on hook and 1 down because they can't get the rescue.
I for one would welcome a complete removal or significantly increased punishments in game for both types of play. Won't ever happen though the kill rates would plummet and people would actually have to learn how to play Killer properly. I'm not even a survivor main and have a lot more experience and skill in the killer role and would still welcome it.
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Tunneling (like actual hard tunneling) is an infuriating practice most often implemented by insecure players who are afraid that they aren't good enough to win fairly, but it's not really that common. I have many thousands of hours in this game (most as survivor at this point), and I have never seen the epidemic tunneling some people say is going on. Hard camping is even rarer.
I think some people just have really loose definitions of what these things are.
What is common is at least one surv in most matches is going to be an asshat. I see it all the time in-game as a surv and as a killer. And it's as inevitable as the sunrise. Post game, whoever comes out on the wrong side (and for some reason sometimes the winning side) is going to have concocted some harebrained narrative where they were done wrong and how that's they why they lost.
But the good news is that you can ignore chat. In fact I highly recommend it. I haven't participated in a post game exchange in over four years, and that decision has greatly enhanced my DBD experience.
Life's too short, let these people mald into the void.
Post edited by Thusly_Boned on2 -
Hard camping has has effectively been replaced by proximity camping which happens a lot. Hard tunneling isn't as prominent like hit off the hook and go straight for that person, at all costs but general tunneling of 1 player happens fairly often where they actively choose the player over another when they know they have just hooked them. I don't have an issue with tunneling if there like 2 gens left and the killer only has two hooks. It's often the only way to actually claw back a win, but unfortunately most of the tunneling happens at 4/5 gens. That's my own personal experience so it might be different to others.
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You say good killers don't need to camp or tunnel, that suggests that new players that are not that good at the game are toxic by default if they use a method that works for them. We all have to start somewhere and there are killers out there that are not good enough to deal with swf teams, if they camp and tunnel to get a few kills good on them for finding a way to beat the competition. I was a survivor main for 2 years I know the pains of camping, tunneling, slugging and all other killer tactics but that's not toxic behaviour. Now I'm a killer main I know what true toxicity is. Swf squads armed with flashlight, flashbang, spend the whole match blinding the killer with no intention of doing gens. That's toxic.
And the fact they might have had 5 games in a row being tunneled out is irrelevant, at that point it's time to learn to counter it or have a break. People are free to vent all they want, but I stand by my way of thinking.... Mouthing off post game makes me think "bad attitude, deserved to be tunneled out"
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Honestly, the times I've been salty are 99.5% directed at my teammates. If you play solo que exclusively, you'll understand this.
Where as when I'm killer, I SEE a lot of the survivors doing dumb things and I just shake my head, knowing I don't have to worry about them giving me a loss.
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The two most common thoughts I have while playing soloQ survivor:
"Why aren't you doing gens?"
"Why are you doing gens instead of unhooking?"2 -
Well I could just play devil's advocate and say that people playing in SWF with the intention using flashlights, flash bangs, sabotage, body blocking etc etc is also not toxic because it's an integral part of the game mechanics and also a valid way for a SWF to win as they usually have one designated gen jockey. It's just not the normal way to win. Their intention is to waste the killers time or force them to give up by forcing them into an unwinnable position, which is basically exactly what camping and tunneling does when someone is forced out at 4/5 gens. The player being tunnelled will normally give up followed by the team.
I personally think both killers & survivors are playing in a toxic manner when they play the game in this way.
New players certainly don't need to tunnel when they're in low MMR playing against low MMR survivors. They do it because it's easy which often forces them into the higher MMR brackets before they gain enough experience and skill to compete. They get stuck in the cycle of relying on tunneling/camping as a crutch to beat better teams which really isn't a requirement for most normal solo queue games but they do it anyway to the detriment of other players experience. That's not solely on the players though it's a problem with DBD itself and it's just too easy to do and doesn't really have enough punishing mechanics to prevent it. Even though they've added things like hook timers, endurance & increased hook times it barely does anything. I can probably count on 1 hand the amount of times I've seen a hook timer actually work and killers are proximity camping or tunneling easily 40-50% of the games in solo queue.
How can you learn not to be camped or tunneled in solo queue? You need to sacrifice too much in order to counter it if you're playing solo, which cripples you during chase and it's almost impossible to coordinate solo queue teammates unless you have 4 experienced players. How can new survivors get better at the game if they face this type of play all the time?
Both ways are toxic and detrimental to players on both sides, but it's almost an impossible task to fix it without a complete overhaul certain mechanics followed by a massive perk rework. Probably never going to happen and I think if they ever make 8v2 a regular thing it's going to completely destroy 1v4 mode for Killers. You'll be lucky to get 1-2 games per hour if that happens.
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You completely neglecting the part that I said "with no intention to do gens" these are toxic. Using flashlight and flash bangs and pallets to accomplish the goal of getting gens done is fine. That's part of the game, exactly the same as tunneling or camping.
Low MMR means nothing because there are many people that create new accounts or deliberately lose matches to lower MMR with the intention to get easier matches.
I was a survivor a long time ago and I learnt to counter the tunnelers by equipping the right perks and not goading the killer into chasing me. People can counter it and can learn if they choose to. It's not unwinnable tactic even in soloq...I know I've done it many times and many soloq have beaten me when I do tunnel and camp. It seems to me that the thing that makes something toxic is something that requires no skill and if the survivors are having fun. If these 2 criteria are hit then it's considered toxic. Which to survivors the only way a killer can play in a non toxic way is if they spread hooks, let survivors go, weaken their build (play how they want the killer to be played) there doesn't seem to be any difference between something they dont like and something toxic, because if they dont like it and it requires no skill the survivors find it boring...which is described as being toxic.
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You're also neglecting the fact that I initially said I didn't think tunneling was the main problem now and proximity camping was the bigger issue.
It's pointless continuing this discussion we both have different opinions on what is and isn't toxic. I could give you multiple examples on how to counter these types of SWFs with a few perks, but it still doesn't make it any less toxic. Exactly the same argument as yours with tunnelling but on the opposite end of the spectrum.
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Indeed we have different views of what toxic means. Which was my initial point that the term "toxic" has lost all meaning. Toxic players has always been known as people who chat abuse and have a negative attitude before, during or after a game, play in a way to intentionally grief, abuse and make players experience miserable.... It's exits in all games not just dbd. This term "toxic" has now evolved into meaning a player that plays in a style that the opposition doesn't like.
There is a big difference between someone using a a tactic to win than someone using a tactic to be malicious. Big difference between slugging, tunneling and camping Vs a killer body blocking a survivor to stop them from getting out of a corner. I have a clear way to define what toxic behaviour is (as it's usually seen in games) but I am curious how you would define what is toxic and what is just something that someone doesn't like.
If proxi camping is toxic behaviour then why are things like flashlight and flash bangs not? Both are equally not enjoyable by opposing sides. And what is a killer supposed to do to not be toxic? Bare in mind the list of toxic plays is long....slugging, tunneling, camping, even use of certain perks like noed or killers with certain builds like double iri Myers is considered toxic, there many more that apparently makes a killer toxic.
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Good one!
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"different views of what toxic means" isn't exactly the same as "the word toxic has lost all meaning".
Plus, to me "intentionally make players experience miserable" and "[intentionally] playing in a style that the opposition doesn't like" isn't exactly contradictory? You have a miserable experience when something happens that you don't like. - It's just that not everything you don't like also makes you miserable - you're absolutely right there. But I do think once you know that a tactic/strategy is commonly perceived as being disliked to the point it makes a gaming experience miserable for the receiving party and you still employ it, it at least qualifies as approving the miserable game experience as a negative consequence of a chosen strategy/tactic. Now, this isn't law and all but the general idea of "intent" in criminal law, where you usually don't need malicious intent and approving the negative consequence of an action is enough, is a good one. Otherwise the general cop-out could always be "but I didn't intend to".
And the "once you know"-part is also how most new players get off the hook for commiting these kinda things: they simple don't know yet.
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Addendum:
If you CAN'T come up with anything better, please don't let that prevent you from mouthing off AT ALL.
Do not deny us the comedy
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I mean I personally don't consider proxy camping to be enjoyable because I know it takes very little skill and it has a negative impact how others perceive me and makes the game miserable for them. I'm not saying my sole purpose is to make sure others enjoy the game, but I like to win fairly according to my own standards.
For me it's pretty simple. In general I won't hook camp or hard tunnel. Most of the builds I use are aura related so camping or tunneling doesn't even fit my playstyle anyway. If the survivors have a problem post match if I win then they don't really have anything to back it up and just start making things up in their head. I don't really care what they say because I beat them fair and square in my opinion. I also don't really run many meta killers or perks so I don't really get much abuse because they have nothing to complain about. Most games generally end with nothing in end game chat and funnily enough it's usually SWF or TTV SWFs that will say ggs gl next. Of course you still get A holes but what can you do.
Toxic gameplay for me about when someone repeatedly engages in a type gameplay at the expense of other peoples enjoyment. It's pretty clear that tunneling and camping has been a serious issue forever in this game and they are constantly trying to balance it without going too far and making SWF god mode.
The problem really lies with how they can balance the game. It would be significantly easier if you didn't have 3 groups of players to balance around.
I'm much better at killer than survivor, but I'm slowly getting better at survivor and actually play a bit more survivor at the moment. I recommend everyone do this from time to time so they get a good idea of what it feels like to be on the receiving end on both killer & survivor. It definitely gives you a reality check and makes you a bit more compassionate towards your opponents.
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I never like 'us vs them' posts. HOWEVER, I will say that in my few thousand hours of playing and from my own personal anecdotal experience playing with other survivors and as killer, I have found Survivors way more likely to spew salt in the endgame than killers. Once again though this is my own experience and I'm sure it's different for others
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Yeah. Survivors can't tunnel a killer out of the game or leave them on the ground to bleed out.
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