The Unknown Changes Just Created More Problems
We appreciate the Unknown's UI improvements. However…
Delaying spawning a hallucination is still possible without slowing down by spamming the power button faster, which is just more strenuous. A better solution would be to allow us to manually deploy a hallucination whenever it's off cooldown.
The teleport movement speed recovery with the blurry photo add-on is now worse than before, which feels super clunky. This is obviously even worse without the add-on. The basekit recovery needs to be reduced even more so it feels smooth basekit.
Airborne hits are still going to feel annoying and unrewarding, even if they don't sound like hits anymore. Please make it so airbourne hits cause the UVX explosion on contact with the survivor. That would feel rewarding and allow survivors to intercept hits, which would be cool counterplay.
Increasing the time for survivors to remove the weakened state slightly would be appreciated too. Right now it feels just a bit too short.
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Btw to address the concerns that spamming the power button will make survivors dodge unnecessarily and lose distance, you can make the slowdown immediate when the power button is pressed so the killer loses distance when they spam their power to bait survivors like that. Or if that feels too clunky, adjust the animation from the survivors point of view so the launcher doesn't start emerging until the slowdown happens. It would emerge between the time when the slowdown starts and when the UVX is ready to shoot instead of emerging between when the power button is pressed and when the UVX is ready to shoot (from the survivors' point of view; the animation wouldn't change from the killer's point of view). Just let us spawn the hallucination manually when it's off cooldown to compensate so spamming the power to more precisely place the hallucination is unnecessary.
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Letting the killer manually place hallucinations would be a major buff, that would be too much. Yes, some people are delaying hallucinations, but it's usually only for a few seconds so they can move it behind an object, and it's always when they aren't in a chase.
I don't really see anyone holding onto a hallucinations for long periods of time while in a chase, because they would be shooting a UVX at a survivor in chase, and you can't tap the UVX button while the power is on cooldown.
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Since they can already delay it for as far as they want outside of chase, it's more of a quality of life improvement than a major buff. Also, they can already delay the hallucination in chase by damaging a survivor with the UVX, which delays the hallucination cooldown for the entire duration of the UVX cooldown, or by damaging them with a basic attack.
It sounds like your concern is that the Unknown would place the hallucination in a loop mid-chase and quickly teleport to it for a free hit (already possible). Maybe a fair compromise then is that the Unknown wouldn't be able to place a hallucination while in chase (it currently can) or for there to be a longer delay between placing a hallucination and being able to teleport (the current delay is only a few seconds).
Also, it's worth mentioning that passive hallucinations give Unknowns free map pressure without having to think about it. Manual hallucinations would require them to remember to place them and more consciously select strategic positions.
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Damaging a survivor with the UVX doesn't delay the hallucination cooldown for the entire duration of the UVX. And damaging with a basic attack doesn't work either, because the hallucination would spawn during the successful attack recovery time, when Unknown can't tap the M2 button. Neither of those options actually works.
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Hmm maybe I'm mistaken. Perhaps during the instances I'm remembering, I was also near a hook or other hallucination if those delay the hallucination cooldown. I know something can delay the hallucination spawning other than tapping the UVX. I am curious though what your main issue is with someone keeping the hallucination vs. passively setting it? What is your primary balance concern?
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If hallucinations could be manually created, they would need to be massively nerfed. Players aren't doing large hallucination delays during a chase. It doesn't work. It's not a thing.
But if Unknown could manually create hallucinations, they could be dropped manually in chase. That would be a terrible horrible thing, because they would need to be massively nerfed in chase as compensation. That's bad. That's lowering the skill ceiling of a killer, and nerfing their chase potential, just so it's easier to place hallucinations.
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If you ask me, i think they should buff his illusions from 4 count to 6-7 illusions. player are already using manual illusion placing so your saying that they are too strong and should be massively nerfed in current iteration.
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I always felt automatically spawning the clone was a little strange, I suppose the point is they want it primarily for map traversal and they don't want it as a controllable anti loop tool? I don't think manually deploying clones is in their design for the killer.
Regarding the tapping power problem, faster wind up for the ability and larger slow might address that problem. Unknown gets to shoot sooner, but tapping is more costly.
Regarding the teleport slowdown, it's my understanding:
- Old basekit: 1.4s
- Old blurry photo: 0.933s
- New basekit: 1.217s
- New blurry photo: ? (Don't know the number)
1.077s? (I'm guessing the new addon gives an additional 15%).
The 50% of old Blurry Photo does seem a tad high... 1.4s to 0.933s is quite a massive acceleration jump. I suppose the nerf is in to the same frame of "teleport for map traversal, not really anti loop" design... so the changes do all make sense...
That said Unknown doesn't feel oppressive/unfair though to me, an overall nerf doesn't quite feel warranted...
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BHVR said they are aware people are UVX tapping, and their concern is the fact that it might confuse survivors into thinking Unknown is trying to hit them with a UVX. That is the issue people should be discussing.
And I literally said people aren't making large hallucination delays in chase. If UVX tapping needs to be nerfed, the best idea would be to just have the clunky extra slowdown happen whenever the UVX button is released, even if the UVX button was tapped. But that would make the character feel worse to play, and that shouldn't happen either.
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Ok but why would they need to be massively nerfed? It sounds like you main concern is that the hallucinations would be placed in strategic location in chase in a loop and then immediately used to get an easy hit. The problem with that logic is that, as you've mentioned, hallucinations can already spawn in chase. Unknowns don't need to do long delays to get their hallucination to a strategic position in a loop; usually just a tap or 2 will do it. Once the hallucination is deployed in a loop, it becomes available to teleport to after about 3 seconds (that I know for sure because I use that strategy regularly). The issue you're worried about is already part of Unknown's kit…so why would a massive nerf even be necessary for slightly streamlining something that's already pretty easy to do?
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Exactly. This is already possible and pretty easy to do. Manual hallucination placement would basically just be a quality of life improvement and not a significant buff. Also more hallucinations would be nice but that would definitely be a buff since survivors need to spend time removing them or the Unknown's map pressure would be even greater.
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You can already deploy hallucinations in chase and use them 3 seconds later for anti-loop. Letting Unknowns manually deploy hallucinations would completely eliminate the need to tap at all, which would accomplish their goal of not confusing survivors in chase, with the added benefit of not having to spam a button outside of chase.
Allowing Unknown to shoot quicker would remove survivor counterplay by giving them less time to react and dodge UVX so I don't think that's a good idea. Plus a larger slowdown punishes tapping even more outside of chase, which makes delaying the hallucination even more annoying, making adding manual hallucination deployment to Unknown's kit even more needed (basically what they did in this update but even worse).
The teleport slowdown just feels worse, which is never good. Chase teleports into a hit were so satisfying with interesting counterplay if the survivor being chased predicted you were going to teleport.
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That's a great argument for why they should add manual hallucination deployment. If Unknowns don't need to tap to delay the hallucination, they won't be confusing survivors. Then the tapping slowdown would make sense because Unknown would lose distance if they're just trying to bait the survivors into juking.
I agree that the tapping slowdown makes Unknown feel worse to play and that's what they just added, which is a problem. Manual hallucination deployment solves that problem.
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Just make his add-ons good, please.
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Hallucinations aren't usually spawning in a loop the survivor is staying at. And Unknown can't UVX tap delay a hallucination if they make an M1 or M2 attack. And making large hallucination delays in chase is not easy to do. And the hallucination post spawn inactivity is 5 seconds. This means you've said five things about Unknown that aren't true at all.
This conversation isn't working. You just keep making up new things that aren't true. You aren't even checking the wiki before you make statements.
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- The UI icon that tells you that you can shoot your UVX (second from the left side) is completely unnecessary and should be removed + the change of desing of the power ability is actually worse than the previous one (now on ptb it reminds the design of a "Septic touch" perk from The Dredge. The old design of a power ability icon was fine as is and did not needed to be changed.
- The change to the movement speed was aimed to fix the problem of faking but this change completely fails at doing so, because you still can tap power button without slowing down (which u should be able to because unknown needs to postpone hallucinations) and instantly make a sound which would let "some" survivors believe that you want to shoot UVX, but where it succeeds is in the making unknown feel clunkier to play as by punishing various scenarios of using your power with more sooner decrease of a movement speed making unknown more clunkier to play and less begginer friendly. This way of treating a problem is conceptually wrong and will lead to a more heavily M1 based playstyle instead of a fun and unique M2 based playstyle on unknown. One way of properly fixing this problem would be to make the action of tapping a power button (trying to postpone a hallucination) not threatening to the survivor that they need to dodge upcoming UVX shot. The way to make it work is to remove initial (instant) sound when unknown taps power button but instead make it so that initial sound appears after 0,2 seconds of holding power button (like old 0,2 second window to penalty). This will make it so if unknown wants to fake and make survivor dodge a shot of UVX he needs to hold the power for 0,2 second after which OLD unknown started to slowdown and now it will become more of choice "do you want to fake a survivor but suffer a slowdown after 0,2 seconds or you don't wanna fake. But if you just want to postpone a hallucination the sound will not trigger. Additionally you can keep a sound instantly triggering on the killer side of things while on survivor side it will trigger after the unknown gets slowed (after 0,2 seconds) this will make it so unknown player can enjoy the immensely satisfying sound of tapping power button extremely fast while on the survivor side they will not hear any sound from tapping the power button but only the sound that triggers after pressing the button for 0,2 seconds.
- Blurry photo Add-on was fan favorite not because it was good in a scenarios with 1.4 seconds of recovery (20% base kit) but because it was good in a scenarios with 0.85 seconds of recovery (50% old blurry photo). The recovery speed basically has a line (time of recovery) after which it renders useless and this line is what was making blurry photo fan favorite (it's the scenarios for example that unknown can tp on the same side of the pallet as a survivor and survivor will not make the vault and will get hit but if he can make the vault without getting hit when unknown teleports then this recovery speed renders useless. And the 20% base kit + 15% of new blurry photo doesn't cross this line and renders it useless so it needs to be not lower than the previous 50% that provided old blurry photo and if you want to "allow more freedom to experiment with other addons without missing out", then the base kit value should cross that line of recovery speed and be like 45-50% then you will get more variety in addon choices for unknown.
- Vanishing box grants on average throughout the match gives you 1-2 extra weakened survivors that makes the hallucinations respawn time 36 seconds for 1 weakened survivor and 26 seconds for 2 survivors (middle ground is like 30 seconds) while base hallucination respawn time is 45 seconds. This addon saved you on average 12-18 seconds on hallucination respawn time but now with 80% penalty to respawn time this addon absolutely kills early-game where no one is weakened because u will have 81 seconds base hallucination respawn time and in middle-game with 1-2 extra weakened survivors provided by Vanishing box hallucination respawn time will be around 54 seconds. This is way too much of a nerf to the vanishing box. In my opinion downside should be around 30-35% it will make base respawn time around 60 seconds and with 1-2 survivors weakened respawn time of around 40 seconds.
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