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Lack of Strong Killers
How I rank the killers in 4 tiers.
Overpowered tier: Nurse
Strong tier: Hillbilly
Balanced/Mid tier: Spirit, Shape, Hag, Huntress, Doctor, Trapper, Clown, Pig, Wraith
Weak/Trash tier: Cannibal, Freddy, Legion
We have all of these balanced killers, but we can't have strong killers? Come on devs, every 3 months you either release killers that may become strong, but then nerf them or weak killers that you give slight buffs to. Mean while anyone who doesn't use Nurse or Hillbilly gets laughed at by survivors in the upper ranks. When are we going to get another Hillbilly? I am not asking for another Nurse, but we only have 1 other killer besides her that can consistently hold their own in the upper ranks.
Note: I didn't forget about the Plague. I'm just not sure where to put her.
Comments
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I'm pretty sure they used a pretty bad excuse once and said "Not all killers are meant to be viable/powerful" or something, i remember alot of people using a quote like this that was apparently from the devs (I still think it's a stupid statement btw)
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isn it better to make killers that go in the balanced tier though?
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doc and trapper are trash tier nurse isnt op its her addons which make her op
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Oh it is better, at least in my opinion @TreemanXD , but if that quote i've seen is really from the devs, it seems like they think differently...
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Trapper is better than most people say.
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You need to split more.
Trapper, Clown, Pig, Wraith are weak, but not yet trash.
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Glad I’m not alone then. :)
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Balanced by the devs standard is mid tier and mid tier is not rank 1 viable. That's not acceptable.
I think a "balanced" standard to shoot for would be Spirit. She's rank 1 viable but yet "most" killers AND survivors alike rank her as one of the most balanced killers alongside Huntress.
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She is the most balanced but viable killer at R1 that’s for sure.
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"We OnLy WaNt tO maKE FuN kILleRs NOw"
hard to enjoy them when they get dunked on all the time yeesh!
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So you list all the killers you think are balanced yet want killers that by your own definition are unbalanced?
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Exactly, which is why I think she's a good power level to aim for when creating new killers.
Kind of like when we look at Plague. Would removing the full heal on fountains make her rank 1 viable? Yes. Would it make her stronger than Spirit? Probably not.
If any strengthening change wouldn't put them above Spirit then it's probably a good idea. Obviously barring changes that downgrade the "fun" factor anyway, but you get my point.
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Possibly, but he is not ballanced at all and survivors have little counter play. That's why I put him in trash tier. Other killers are at least fun to play against and have counter play.
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I wasn't sure whether to put her with billy. She is really good with add ons, but billy can be good without them. That's why he is better.
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I still think Billy is probably above Spirit but I would absolutely put her at 3rd and not far behind him.
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Because even though they are balanced they are not red rank viable. Survivors are unbalanced. A good survivor team will always beat a balanced/mid tier killer.
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There is no mid tier in DBD.
And please dont call it balanced. Because no killer is balanced properly.
You cant compare Myers with Clown, or Hag with Trapper.
Completely different strength.
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If they aren't "rank 1 viable" then they aren't balanced.
And honestly for people whose idea of balance is a killer who can zoom across the map in mere seconds back to back with no cooldown, and has an instadown so easy it gets used in place of his regular attack 90% of the time then I think it says more about that players skill level than it does the game.
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They are trash though.
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People keep saying how bad Rank 1 is, and I honestly don't see a problem with it. I'm a Rank 1 Wraith Main. I can get 4k's most of the time no problem without using NOED (If you're a good enough killer skill wise, you don't need noed) and I get to rank 1 every season. Also you don't need to be Nurse or Hillbilly or "you'll be laughed at". There are plenty of "Hillbilly's" as you say. Spirit is debated by most of the community BETTER than Hillbilly. Hag is also a very viable option at higher ranks. Well, ALL KILLERS can be played at Rank 1. You just got to know what you're doing. Our most recent killer "The Plague" is a VERY balanced killer. Low high tier - High mid tier. She's basically a better Huntress. The only thing that Plague doesn't have going for her is map pressure.
Anyway, the conclusion. You don't need to be Nurse or Hillbilly to do well at higher ranks.
EDIT: Also Legion isn't trash tier, neither is Leatherface. They're both under-rated killers. Leatherface is just Hillbilly without the mobility. Legion has tracking, "decent" chase capabilities and slight mobility. Leatherface is mid tier, Legion is low mid tier.
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BVHR takes the approach of 'better to release something underpowered than overpowered and tweak it in 3 - 12 months, if at all. It's a pretty unfortunate situation that has allowed the current meta to stagnate for.. years now.
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"If they aren't "rank 1 viable" then they aren't balanced."
I agree with this entirely. Most people including the devs idea of "balanced" is mid tier unfortunately.
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What does that even mean? Every killer in the game is red ranks viable. If we're talking like tournament-levels then sure you've got Nurse and maaaaybe Spirit but what does "rank 1 viable" even mean?
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I got to rank 1 with Trapper only, minus dailies on other killers. He isn't mid or trash tier - killers in general are only as good as you make them.
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Read the comments I was replying too.
First post lists killers as overpowered, strong, BALANCED, weak. Then next post said the killers listed under balanced aren't viable at red ranks.
That's a contradiction imo. If a killer is "balanced" which was the word used then they should theoretically be viable at red ranks.
Now the argument I'm getting is the devs have a different idea of what balanced is so I'm not sure why OP didn't just list his idea of balanced to avoid the confusion.
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"Every killer in the game is red ranks viable"
This is so incorrect. We're assuming games against actually competent survivors, not potatoes.
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I see, I just don't understand what the phrase "viable at red ranks" means as if rank is some grand determiner of skill.
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There is a range of balance imo. It starts with the third killer in the tier list and ends with...I dunno, maybe somewhere around 6 or 7.
Every killer can theoretically win at rank 1 but you're gonna find it easy with nurse and sweaty with Pig. Likewise for survivors, easy against the bottom tier killers but sweaty against the top.
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If it's any Coldwind map then Billy rules them all, But Spirit is definitely either #2 on other maps or really darn close. Nurse is op God tier especially if it's an Omega Blink Nurse played by a good killer.
The others if it's played by someone that can get the most out of them they're rank 1 viable except against the swat teams. But against the majority of the lobbies they can still do 2k at least every game on average.
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I see your point there. I guess the problem is survivor balance. Competent survivors have the ability to completely shut down mid tier killers and lower. I'd go so far as to say they are the killers in the game as they laugh there way out of the exit gates. Ranking them up next to Billy and possibly above. I heard someone say 4 perfect survivors will always beat 1 perfect killer.
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I think when they said we only wanna make fun killers now they meant fun for the survivor to bully because well eh... I don't see the fun in seeing survivors tbag at the exit gate and say gg ez after game.
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Well obviously 2 and 3 spot can be interchanged depending on the map, that's just a given.
I absolutely though do not believe all killers are rank 1 viable. Bar odd circumstances like Ultra Rares, nurse, etc you will lose every time against an equally top tier set of survivors and I'm not even talking about swf here. Both sides played perfectly you aren't winning. You RELY on survivors making mistakes to win, both sides playing their best this isn't happening. That's why the majority of the killers that are considered top tier are there because they are the few that do not rely on survivor mistakes to win, they can actually make the plays themselves.
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They CAN win if they are playing against potatoes that make lots of mistakes.
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Nah there are plenty of streamers who consistently win with them at rank 1. However these people also play DBD as a full time job. Your typical player will probably struggle.
Which is a different thing entirely. How good should a killer be? Strong enough that your average player can use them but not so strong that anyone can pick them up and 4k. There needs to be a balance of killer strength and player skill to win.
Which goes back to killers being rated easy/intermediate/hard to play.
Nurse is listed as hard. She definitelty takes practise to use but she's also incredbly strong once you put the time in. Spirit is the same.
On the other hand you have Billy. Its been controversial as to how strong he is compared to how easy he is to play.
I think there should be stronger killers that require more mastery. That makes sense. However there does need to be a balance. I'm not saying that hard killers should be OP and easy killers should remain limited in their killing potential. That balance is for the devs to find.
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boy this thread is dumb
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I'm sure you have posted your fair share.
Post edited by Ray_Penber on1
