Incentives or punishments?
Over the long years of Dead by Daylight, there as very often been many playstyles, perks and killers that have created interesting scenarios that have either been condemned or praised.
That brings up the question of incentive vs punishments. Should players be given an incentive to play in a more healthy, fun way or should be punished for engaging in unfun gameplay?
Which has worked better in the past? After answering that question, what better ways can Behavior go about encouraging or discouraging player gameplay? Obviously nothing can truly take away player choice, but it's important to steer people in non-toxic directions. Barbecue and Chili is a great example as it encourages killers to go after different survivors rather than camp the hook. On the other end, the anti-camp mechanic punishes killers for camping, mixed with the base borrowed time which also punishes the killer for staying near the hook.
Comments
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Incentives will always outdo punishments. Incentives reward good play, while punishments will just push people away from the game.
Also, the anti camp mechanic punishes FACE camping. Proxy camping is still very much viable, as it should be. If the Devs want to remove camping in its entirity, they need to find out a way to keep survivors from just getting a free unhook and heal (often called a reset) with no downside whatsoever8 -
As @Sandt1985 correctly states, its not an anti camp mechaninc, it was never ment to be. But an anti face camp mechanic. Also people seem to forget that hook graps was removed as well. I think Grim Embrace, BBQ and Scource hooks are all great mechanichs that rewards / encourages not tunneling and not camping.
Sadly i think the DC bots are are punishing killers as they are now, while the killer are forced to play versus bots, the people who DCed are already in the next game, this is sometimes used to bully killers by Mass DCing as soon as what ever plan the survivors had didnt work, at least make so people cant join another game for as long as their bot replacement is still alive.
I totally see the thought behind the bots, and with some adjustments i think they could be a good addition, - if killers were given the option to end the game, when there are only bots left (remaining bots could as a hook offering). And if the people who DC were given a timeout for the remaining of the trial they left. So the killers dont feel they are a laughing stock when people leave and they are forced to play versus the bots or get a DC pen + loose their points.4 -
Both. For example, if you want to decrease amount of tunneling, give killers a reason to not and make anti-tunnel perks stronger. So it's still possible strategy, but way more risky and on another hand they will have a reason to play different way, like survivors want.
Everything should be balanced this way.5 -
With the introduction to Doritos Head 2v8 proven the idea that face camping a Entity's Cage is the best answer to this. When a Killer in ANY Trial, no matter which distance they set it as, should replace Hooks. And as soon as the killer gets that range, the Entity should shuffle the survivor away. That's it.
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Couldn't that be used to the killers advantage? Like, if a killer knows theres a few survivors nearby trying to go for an unhook, a killer could just facecamp to move that survivor to the other side of the map
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If it's an option people will do it. It doesn't matter how discouraged it is, how unhappy it makes other people etc. there are simply some out there that will do it if they can- period. So if things really shouldn't be allowed then it's on the Devs for letting it remain in the game. As far as keeping playstyles and perks and things enabled in the game but maybe not used certain ways, then there needs to be both an incentive not to use them in that way and more of a punishment if you do. But even then, for certain individuals, if they can, they will regardless, but the Devs certainly don't have to make it easy.
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I think the concept of a "healthy gameplay" is too broad and way too overused as a complaint about game balance.
Frankly we've seen plently of anti-tunnel and anti-camping systems be added to survivors basekit yet they will never be happy, because they don't want to weaken strong strategies used to win. They just want to be immune which goes against the fact it's a 1v4 elimination game.
Yet never do we see rewards for killers opting to not tunnel or camp which are strong ways to build pressure when done right. In fact we are seeing a rise to slugging, because hooks have been nerfed several times without any meaningful buffs elsewhere to the killer.
Plus if focusing your objective to completion was unhealthy we would also see mechanics in place to prevent a survivor from doing a gen from 0-100 by themselves.
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I think depending on the situation it needs a combination of both. Incentives are always a good thing but if we go by that alone, the incentive would need to be pretty extreme in some cases to outweigh the other playstyle.
Also, as others have already stated, it is no anti camping mechanic but an anti face camping mechanic. The important difference is that as much as we may not like it at times, proxy camping is a valid way to play the game. It's crucial we call it for it is because otherwise that creates wrong expectations.
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I said in another post somewhere I'd like to see a point change for slugging. Something like if someone is slugged for a minutes the BP for the kill starts to lower and if they die on the ground the killer gets BP taken from them.
In the theme of you aren't supplying the entity with blood letting someone bleed out on the ground
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Easy way to counter slugging after 2-4 minute of the entire time bleed out of entire team or mabe 3 so that would be half of an entire bleed out time after that 3 minute time limit is exceeded when they killer boots up into the next match they can't do anything they will be locked in place for what ever time that they slugged after 2 minutes out of 16 u would never see slugging again 2 people do understand jist how bad dbd has gotten u can play for a few hours and spend more then 30 minutes doing NOTHING HEPLESS TO EVEN PLAY it happening almost ever game recently slugg everyone at 5-4 gens all bleed out and oit time is waisted
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How could it?... it has been the Executioner's exact method for caging. Why would anything change after the fact? Just because it would be a different killer all together
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You know what else you would see? A bunch of killers going afk whenever the first survivor shows them a sabo or wiggle build (or just something that goes in that direction). I know I would do it every single time without fail. If I can't play the game anyway, then I won't be your plaything either.
There are still reliable ways to make that happen especially in a SWF but because it mostly doesn't win matches and the counter play makes the game horrible for them only few people do it. Now imagine if you could weaponise it in that way.
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I had a post awhile ago in the feedback section where I said they could actually make the thumbs up option post-game actually mean something. Whether it's a reputation system, or bloodpoint rewards, shards, whatever, allow the players to reward or acknowlege each other for good sportsmanship.
It's not going to solve every issue but I feel like most people behave unpleasantly because they're anonymous behind a screen and there's no consequences or reasons to reconsider their behaviour. Having a stranger give you something rewarding just because you played a game with them would probably give you a bigger dopamine hit than playing like an ass would.
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All we need is BBQ and DS.
The perfect incentive and the perfect punishment.
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Unfortunately, vice versa, toxic players would negatively rate other players for unjustified reasons. Even something as simple as a gamer tag would get someone a thumbs down.
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Sounds like survivors could use this to punish killers by crawling away and hiding so the killer can't find them. The olny way to completely prevent this would be for the killer to pick up that survivor right away, which isnt always the best call. IF I feel i'm about to get flashlight saved or pallet stunned, i'm not picking up that survivor until that threat has been neutralized by chasing the second survivor in question. Then, once i get a hit on that second survivor, if they are still out positioned, I'll go for an additional hit to down them. However, the first survivor could immediately crawl and hide during this, causing me to get lower blood points. This is a lose lose situation for killers.
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As long is unfun gameplay is possible it doesnt matter what incentives you give them nor what punishments you have in place. You need to get rid of the possibilities for unfung gameplay completely.
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if killer dont slug , you cant do it
if killer try to slug its normal for survivor to try to punish him
if killer try to slug and its work gg to him , if not he lose BP.
Thats a good call , its up to you to try it or not with the benefice/risk balance0 -
That doesn't address the scenario i stated above at all
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