General Discussions
General Discussions
WGLF is now wildly OP
Wglf has become so overtuned to the point killers can no longer slug for pressure if you slug for more then 5 seconds they get back up even faster 3 sec pickup if its double healing its become so strong it can be used in chase even more so when killer has to vault or kick a pallet.
4man slugging was ridiculous dont get me wrong but now were punishing basic pressure maybe if we rework WGLF to gain 200% pickup speed after 2 or more people are downed then it would be more fair for both sides
https://x.com/MintyTrg/status/1844268625055875207
Comments
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I have zero problems with WGLF literally none.
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cool story
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The first time I saw it, I got a free Endurance tank out of it. So it's clearly doing what the buff intended. I expect this perk's popularity to rise, maybe more than Unbreakable.
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With all these predictions that slugging would be even worse with the Finisher Mori, Survivors need some form of viable defense against it.
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Actually if WGLF got a massive boost PER downed survivor and allowed for self-pickup after 2 were down, it'd be cool
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a Ramping effect would have been way better then a massive flat buff also i think the self pickup after two downed effect would fit unbreakable perfectly
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which is exactly what’s happening in my matches. Slugging has increased wildly
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Who wants to let OP know that this would've been an escape even without the buff…
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i got plenty of other clips these are just an example and i didn't want my post flooded with videos
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BBQ or Pop basekit its a simple yet great incentive to not slug and leave hook to save a gen
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omg people will complain about anything now. In my little book of complaints i did NOT see wglf being complained about LOL
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maybe a stronger basekit friends till the end? but every survivor is exposed for 60 seconds or a stacking haste when you hook more then one person or we could swap the effect for regression instead like a blanket surge/jolt effect
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I will LOL..You know me, I will for sure…. Hey OP! It would've been an escape without the buff…(Truly)
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We can deactivate all endurance perks after the last gen pops for fairness in endgame ;)))
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LOL Stawwwwwp! xD!
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yeah, because we never bothered to check the true reason for slugging becoming more prominent in matches and are already working on the ways to counter that meta, while not focusig on fixing the source problem.
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Dude can't be serious. If your that worried about the fast pickup you should run infectious fright. If there wasn't someone nearby then you've already bought yourself enough time from slugging for pressure.
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I think WGLF fine against most killers, but The Twins feel awful when someone is using it. There has been quite a few instances where I cannot cross the map before someone is picked up.
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That's mostly a twins issue though, and the devs kinda just made it worse with this last update. Get a down with Victor, and nearby survivors have all the time in the world to kick him.
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it can be used in chase even more so when killer has to vault or kick a pallet
This is a lie.
now were punishing basic pressure
This is a lie.
This one is true.
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The perk is way too situational to bring. If the killer doesn’t slug it’s useless. I don’t slug as killer (unless I can’t hook them at all) and I don’t deal with the perk
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because there are much more downsides to hooking than there ever were than there are to slugging, thus people have just collectively stopped hooking until at least 2-3 man slug can be achieved.
Imho hooking needs to be brought back to life since it's just too discouraged nowadays:
- strongest perks in survivor loadouts are those that...have hook/unhook condition
- hook grabs removed
- +10s to hook stage timer
- sabo related stuff buffed
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I'm a WGLF user. One of two things happen:
- You've abandoned the slug. In simpler terms, you're overextending. I've then picked them up because you've now committed to another chase, not getting a quick swipe in.
- The situation has been engineered, or the stars aligned, so that the downed survivor has ended up on the other side of a pallet or window, and someone with 4 healing perks manages to heal them enough that it's a coin flip whether they get picked up or you get another down. Even then, it's basically a walmart for the people, as you get injured for it more often than not.
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Twins are strong enough to deal with it. This killer never needed to slug, despite what certain players like to claim. Sending Vic to down a survivor across the entire map has always been a misplay anyway (unless you're proxy camping a hooked survivor).
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You could pick up a downed surivor in the time he reels from the cooldown, if you got a medkit and WGLF in your hands. Let that sink in.
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^You could just hook the person straight away and this wouldn’t be an issue…. Let that sink in.
….
LOVING that this thread is finally getting us to a place where we are ready to openly admit slugging is done because it’s optimal gameplay, not for ‘x,y or z’ imaginary excuse. IMO slugging is a rampant nightmare at then moment and any counter to it is welcome. If there is someone waiting RIGHT there to flashlight save etc and you can get a down then that’s just logical, it’s not slugging. It’s fair play - you as a survivor chose to put yourself in that situation and you paid the price for it. But we we should not be promoting leaving players on the ground for extended periods of time for ‘pressure’. If this perk is countering that then good.6 -
Medkits are finite, you can wait out the endurance or hit the healer depending on map and killer, and now half the team aren't on gens.
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Incentives already exist in the form of scourge hook perks.
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even though the absolute easiest thing to do in game is get 4k as killer they won’t be happy until the game is just survivors blindfolded and chained up in a. Firing squad range..
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those arent basekit though its a perk not a real incentive
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or the enduranced surv reaches a pallet or vault or shack which will prolong it even more or just hit them while they gain time and distance but hey lets ignore that part
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Yeah people aint talking about that its a guaranteed free now at end game by using a Medkit or double surv healing faster then killer can recover might as well were just back at old slighty weaker FTP buckle up
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the base game incentive is that it’s your main objective as a ways to kill survivors and get them out of the match. Thus there are less people overall to complete gens and further reduce the likelihood the remaining survivors are going to escape - ergo pressure.
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Yeah, after all it is just a perk survivors use for Bloodpoint stacks right?
…Right?
(I hate patch 6.1.0).
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It's not OP. It's actually just a decent perk now.
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and mass slugging a bleeding them out does fill the objective yet devs are completely adding changes and buffs to things to stop Ergo pressure
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Not to mention if you hook, you're now giving survivors access to insane perks.And if you don't hook, you face the risk of unbreakable or wglf allowing the survivors to recover with even less pressure than a hook would have had.
It's a pretty basic way the game works: if the meta changes from killers hooking to slugging, survivors will change their perks from hook benefit perks to slug benefit perks.
Which is how BHVR wants the game to work. The game never would have had the lifespan its had if the correct decision to make was always the same.
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- WGLF is abused for other purposes other than "slugging" at it's current state, which is overtuned, especially when combined with perks like FTP or MFT.
- since slugging is now main meta and vast majority of most vocal people in this community has completely linear view of metas, without thinking "ohh, but why is strategy X becoming meta?", let me tell you one thing. When anti-slugging becomes main meta, less people will run anti-tunneling builds, which will lead to hard tunneling becoming main meta again, and with every constant anti slugging ←→ anti tunneling meta shift, this is going to be the case until the core problem in this game is addressed. That problem are HOOKS. There is no more a proper incentive for killers to not only spread hooks, but also hook people. I don't want to repeat the whole story behind hooking and spreading hooks being completely discouraged by the game, and there has to be the way to encourage hooking and spreading hooks again. Unfortunately, this vocal part of the community doesn't care about problems getting fixed for both sides because they look at the balance issues in this game through rose-tinted glasses for the side they main.
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It's always the things you least expect. Look at how people treat WoO.
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No point having an intelligent discussion with yet another killer player deciding every hypothetical must be the worst-case scenario to manipulate a point.
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This one here speaks the truth! This is the main problem, that we never deviced a system that encourages the killer to spread hooks and possibly also keeping survivors alive instead of killing them off.
This could only work via a system of sizable debuffs that get applied to "snuff out all hope" by The Entity, while still keeping some hope of escape alive. Only when 4 alive survivors at 8 hooks is more valuable then two dead survivors, will this ever change.
But BHVR has this wild fascination with two things: 1) everything should always be available with no restrictions, thus severely limiting designspace for perks, because a perk that works an Trapper also works on Nurse, and 2) that you can't punish people for playing good, thus there shall be no comeback mechanic or game director AI.
And I thin the game would benefit immensely from both.
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Bleeding out doesn't fulfill the game's killer objective, you get zero points and displease the entity when it happens.
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good.
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Ironic how you completely admit that slugging is becoming the meta and want people to examine why that is… when the rise in WGLF is directly caused by the rise in Slugging meta. Apparently we only want to examine route causes when it benefits the killer.
As this thread has clearly exposed, killers slug because it’s ’optimal Play’.
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Sounds about right.
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Players ask for Basekit Unbreakable. Instead we get Altruistic Unbreakable. Just like Babysitting Altruist Unhook against Tunneling.
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Technically they've already made many perks not work on Nurse anymore by simply making her blink attacks special.
That even disabled Franklin that used to be so fun to use on Nurse.
And yes, technically Nurse can still use Franklin by not blinking but that's not a realistic use of Nurse.
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You say that as if you have discovered a deeply buried secret.
I don't think any reasonable player has ever said otherwise. Slugging, especially recently, is often the best move. (Not always.)
The one critique of slugging that's an exaggeration is the one stating that the four-slug-bleed-out is both done out of spite and common.
It happens, rarely, and is largely the result of severe misplays from the survivors. It's almost never out of spite and when it happens it's because it was the right move at the time.
Usually, the killer starts hooking after the four-slug, unless survivors are hiding. (Or the rare case of a jerk.)
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You are right on all accounts here. The thing with slugging is, that it powers so many good survivor perks (actually the unhooking, but you know what I mean) and with the recent extra hook timer the time to fully slug someone to death vs picking them up, hauling them to a hook and leave them hanging is basically the same, so some killers opt to use knockout and go for a slugging tour.
Its really a testament to this strange times that in some (not so rare) cases, hooking someone is giving more pressure to the surivors, then it is giving the killer. I tried a full on slugging build for a night once, and it was surprisingly effective, but boi were the postgame chats salty. The sodium content was off the charts and the survivors didn't appreciate this playstyle one bit.
I really think that BHVR needs to reevaluate hooks and how to make them more sweet to the killers, some kind of base effect if they manage to hook all four survivors while everyone is alive.
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No I haven’t and that’s the point. We have always known that slugging and tunnelling has been the optimal way for people to play because they’ve always done it regardless of what changes have been made on either side. The point is people, for years now, have largely excused slugging and tunnelling for one reason or another - case in point a user above has said if they ‘tackle the slugging meta it will promote a tunnelling meta’ but I’m glad we are getting to a point where people are open to admitting it’s optimal play rather than give excuses about why they ‘have to play’ that way.
The buff to WGLF won’t incite a slugging or camping / tunnelling meta because it already is the meta anyway and has been for some time now - despite nerfs to healing, despite nerfs to tool kits, despite nerfs to gen progression, despite nerfs to dead hard (which was one of the first excuses for this behaviour), despite nerfs to CoH. We know why they do it. It doesn’t need examining as if people using WGLF are the ones causing it when we all know it’s the other way around - just as the massive surge in DH at its prime also went hand in hand with the tunnelling meta that has plagued the game at times.
We all have our opinions on 4 man slugging and I agree, as a survivor main, that the reports of this have largely been exaggerated - however over the past month it has started to increase exponentially and that’s without the problem of slugging for the 4K which has been an issue for many for years and the WGLF buff also helps to combat. Ultimately, BHVT clearly know there is an issue and this is clearly a way to combat it .
Just because it’s optimal play doesn’t mean it’s fair or just play - things can change as the abundance of changes already have shown like when the hatch mechanic was changed as it was unfair for killers.
Killer mains moaning that it will increase camping and tunnelling are just spouting the same tired rhetoric we see any time a survivor perk gets a buff to something remotely decent to justify a play style they’ve probably always used anyway. There are plenty of killers out there who don’t resort to this play.
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