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Why are there no unwritten rules for survivor?
There's a dozen or so things you're not allowed to do as killer at punishment of being cried at for an hour, but this doesnt seem to translate at all in the other direction. Why is it kosher for survivors to employ whatever miserable and degenerate strategies they want?
Bhvr lean into this by canonising a lot of these complaints in wide reaching balance changes
Comments
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Both sides complain about the other one no matter what. Just stop bothering about it and play your game how you want since you paid for it. Simple as that.
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There are. It's just you are four times more likely to hear what survivors want killers (not) to do than the other way around. Also the killer can actually punish whatever they dislike instead of having to wait for post-game chat to complain. According to some killers Boil Over and Flashy plays get you tunneled out immediately. Besides, what can survivors really do that prevents a killer from playing the game?
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"I dare you, if you touch my hooks, if you even look funny at them, I swear I'll hunt you till the end of this short, self-contained chunk of the world and kill you!!!1"
"If you bring a Map offering, don't expect even one shred of mercy, you will find non. I'll tunnel at 5 gens to get my 4k if needed."0
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its called survivor mains having the bias. survivors are allowed to do everything but if killer does something that slighly annoys them, killer is toxic.
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The "rulebooks" existed for both killers and survivors when the game launched. And the community was small enough it was generally self managing to prevent "rulebreaking" behavior.
Killers weren't supposed to block the only unhook spot (og face camping), not tunnel, not excessively slug, not bring the mori that didn't even require hooks (you died on first down).
Survivors, in turn, weren't supposed to run actual infinite loops, sabo hooks permanently, use the BNP that instantly completed any gen from 0.
If you notice, almost all of the "survivor rules" were deleted or made base kit so long ago that almost no one remembers they even existed. Meanwhile, after 8 years you can still camp hooks, just have to be 11m away. Oh no, the horror.
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There are douzens of things both sides are not "allowed" to do, if we go by some very entitled players.
For killers it's things like camping, tunneling, slugging, using meta perks and addons as well as map offerings, using the killer's power in an efficient way and even mindgaming.
For survivors it's things like gen rushing, teabagging, pre dropping, using meta perks and items as well as map offerings, looping (according to some people that's also toxic), playing in a SWF and hiding in any way.
Play in a way you wouldn't mind others to play against you, if the roles were reversed and follow the rules. If people still don't like that, then that's their problem.
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Survivors aren't the power role, and there's comparatively much less they can do to break the game.
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Ive never understood this "you paid for it, you can do whatever you want!"
If I buy a ticket to go to the movies, doesnt mean I can talk loudly and be a disturbance to everyone else.
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No, it absolutely translates in the other direction, and to pretend otherwise means you're either not looking or oblivious.
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trying to tell someone else how to play their game is the equivalent of going to the movies and talking loudly and disturbing everyone else. You just don’t like it when the other people in the movie theater (killers) tell you to be quiet.
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I mean, to be fair, you're not fighting the other moviegoers to win the movie.
Like you should probably try not to be a dick towards others in game but at the end of the day it is a PVP game. You're allowed to use whatever strategy you like in the confines of the game rules.
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Brother, no one here is a killer or a survivor. Were all people trying to enjoy a videogame
so cut the us vs them bullshit and go have fun god dammit
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Well said. W Shrrompy!
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Here are a few rules:
- Do the gen in front of my face instead of running for your life and suffer the consequences.
- Bring a map offering and prepare to have the less fun you can possibly imagine out of a game.
- Break my first hook attempt and it's four-slug-city for the team.
- Playing a gens-before-friends game will not work as well as you hope.
- Play against your team and you'll be the first one to die. Maybe the only one, just because.
I almost always punish these and I almost always get salt in the following chat. It's kind of the cherry on top.
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Any more questions, OP?
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There aren’t ‘degenerate’ strategies for survivors to use anymore. They’ve been patched out or heavily nerfed. Even genrushing (focusing on gens over all else, which means letting teammates die on hook, not healing, etc) still comes with a lot of risk as usually at least one survivor will die from it. I guess maybe teabagging? Not sure. The rest (looping, predropping, hiding) are kind of necessary things survivors must do to avoid throwing games.
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Well, almost anything virtually possible is allowed in dead by daylight. Even cheating/hacking as long as you don't make it too obvious or are lucky that no one is making a video recording or investing 20 minutes for a cheat report.
I don't know this from any other PVP game and I've played many.It's a refuge for people who have a hard RL conditions, I think that's intentionally made like that to speak to that type of persona (revenue wise ofc)
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There is only one rule for both sides. Treat others the way you would want to be treated. Those are real people behind the pixels. Just don't be a dick. It's that simple.
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"Anything in this world is allowed, as long as you don't get caught"
-My Highschool law teacher.
Just because thats the case doesnt mean its right. Youre in a bad spot in life? Sorry to hear that, but dont try to drag everyone down with you.
I will agree though the report system in this game is something that REALLY needs improving
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Exactly, people do it anyway. And yes, I'm sure that people who cheat or humiliate or treat other people in order to feel better about themselves, on a regular basis of course, have some serious problems in RL.
This kind of thing shouldn't normally be encouraged in any game but should be punished more severely. DBD, on the other hand, is very tolerant here and doesn't want to lose such people, as many of them also spend good money.
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Both sides complain. Only one sided has a set of "rules" that are systematically pushed and enforced on a community-wide scale. It's not about complaining.
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I love the "rulebook" thing... It baffles me when people cry about my play style. I follow BHVR rules, not random players rules. I expect others to do the same. If people don't like it then cry to BHVR not the players that are simply playing the game. "But your playstyle makes it unfun for us"... Um ok I thought I was playing the game for my entertainment, my enjoyment. I wasn't aware I had sole responsibility of everyone else's fun even if it's at the expense of my own fun.
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There are plenty of unwritten rules for survivor. No need to make this about us vs them, people have complaints (valid or not) about many playstyles on both sides.
Here are some examples of rules killers have that I've seen complained about (or resulted in sudden aggressive BM/camping/tunneling/slugging for doing):
- Stunning the killer
- Blinding the killer
- Saving a teammate with a pallet, head on, or flashlight/flashbang
- Sabotaging hooks
- Holding W
- Hiding (not ratting in a 2v1)
- Using deliverance
- Completing a generator in the killer's face
- Using a certain perk (boil over, boon, dead hard, unbreakable, decisive strike, off the record, reassurance)
If we want to consider a survivor "rulebook" and consider things the majority of players disagree with or dislike, then I would say the following easily make it in:
- Bringing map offerings
- Playing with others in a survive with friends (regardless of using voice chat)
- Using voice chat with others in a survive with friends
- Attempting flashlight/flashbang/pallet/headon saves
- Using endurance pickup strategies like FTP Buckleup or WGLF Made For This
- Going down under pallets with Flip Flop Power Struggle
- Forcing grabs out of lockers (with DS, or to counter slugging, or to counter powers like Oni)
- Taking hits for teammates after being unhooked (see also: using anti tunnel aggressively)
Acting like killers don't have sometimes unreasonable expectations for survivors is just silly. Both sides can be entitled. And a large majority of the killer playerbase does not like the above things (especially SWF and bold altruism) and will complain or try to ruin your game for it, or rage quit.
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They have proven to fight against cheaters, its just that its an endless battle. The devs build a higher wall, cheaters get a taller ladder. Its an endless battle, and this goes for literally any game out there. Id also argue the cheater situation in this game is VERY tame compared to other games nowadays. (I wouldnt of said the same thing during the cheater epidemic tho)
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I'd upvote this comment 100 times if it were possible to do so.
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Going to open this up with a disclaimer saying, yes, of course, play however you want. Just don't go out of your way to make others miserable.
But there actually is a reason why killers get more criticism than survivors beyond just, survivors being whiny and there being 4 survivors for every 1 killer in a lobby.
Killers can actually progress their win condition without camping or tunneling. You have multiple targets you can chase and put on the hook. It might be sub-optimal to chase the Dwight with 0 hook states over the injured, freshly unhooked Claudette on death hook, but catching Dwight does still put you closer to winning the match.
Most sane players understand that once you're down to 1-2 gens, you gotta get someone out of the match. The reason camping and tunneling is annoying is when the MMR messes up and puts you against survivors who aren't very efficient and tunnel someone out at like 5 generators. This is basically a guaranteed loss for the survivors, making the match boring or frustrating depending on your level of detachment.
Survivors don't really have a lot of options for easing up the pressure on a killer who is struggling like killer does against survivors who aren't playing that well.
You can:
- Work on generators
- Set up for a flashlight save
- Heal/rescue allies
- Open a chest
- Do a dull totem
Working on generators progresses the game's primary objective for survivors across the entire team.
Flashlight saves are actually sub-optimal over working on gens, due to them being a massive time loss if you fail to pull it off, but killers hate being flashlight saved against and often deride survivors who are good at them as being "sweaty" in the same way as survivors do for camping/tunneling killers.
You could rescue and heal, but can't if everyone is healthy, which is likely if the killer is getting rolled.
There is literally no reason to do dull totems unless you have a perk like Inner Strength, and even then you might be giving the killer Pentimento. You could do all 5 to avert NOED, but if the killer actually brought NOED and this happens they probably won't be happy about it.
So that just leaves… what, opening chests?
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I think your misunderstanding the whole point. It's not "do what you whatever you want" it's so whatever you want in line with the t&c of usage. The movies have policies of no talking, no phones ect. Buying a ticket you agree to that. Buying dbd you agree to follow their rules. So yes you can do whatever you want as long it's in line with the rules of the establishment or provider.
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Unfortunately, I'm afraid this is a topic you really don't understand. It's nice to write a few things about cheat protection here(wall and ladder), but none useful simply exists in the game. But it's not that bad, there are a lot of people like you here who don't have that much idea.
There is no server validation in Dead by daylight yet. This means that the client has all possible options for various value inputs. The server accepts this without validation and says fine (go for 300% movement for the next 16 seconds).
This also means that there is still no automatic cheat protection, which means that a support ticket has to be opened manually and a ban can be obtained with the help of clear evidence (video or screenshot). This process takes on average 20 minutes. Also a few little facts and also good learning.
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Id also argue the cheater situation in this game is VERY tame compared to other games nowadays. (I wouldnt of said the same thing during the cheater epidemic tho)
Go to youtube and search for dead by daylight cheat / hacker and filter within the last 24h.
I think it's also a question of game knowledge. If you're not an experienced or attentive player, you won't notice if there's a cheater in the lobby. As I said, you need obvious proof to be able to ban a player. If this doesn't exist, then there is nothing to fear. There are some Twitch streamers who stream how easy it is to cheat in DBD and earn money with it (for years).
Sorry, but I always find it cute when there are people who say, oh, the situation is "VERY tame" xD0 -
I think the problem is that survivor-mains are just frustrated that the developers have left them behind. We all knew that when they gutted healing, there would be an even greater chance of the three-genning problem. They keep nerfing survivors into oblivion. Telling people to 'just watch YouTube and learn how to loop,' then releasing heavy anti-looping killers, creates a never-ending cycle. If the developers were fairer and didn’t encourage toxic gameplay, there would be fewer unwritten rules. Survivors still have unwritten rules, like leaving your item if the killer lets you go or not teabagging.
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Survivors' Rulebook for Killers - 8.3.1st Edition.
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So then enlighten us on what survivor strategies are there that have the exact same effects as those on killer?
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That's a false argument. Both roles are essentially a different game. Killers and survivors could have a perk that, at it's basic function, does the EXACT same thing, but the in game function for that perk would be completely different on each side.
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I made a serious post, but now I will make a joke one after having an unfortunate game against a very angry Pyramid Head.
Survivors who perform any of the following actions can be regarded as "bullying the killer"
- Working on generators
- Bodyblocking and taking protection hits for team mates
- Sabotaging hooks
- Flashlight saving allies
- Flashlight blinding at pallets
- Flashlight blinding at windows
- Holding a flashlight
- Existing in the same match as a team mate with a flashlight
- Finding a flashlight in a chest
- Owning a flashlight in real life
- Thinking about flashlights
- Stunning the killer with a pallet
- Saving an ally by stunning the killer with a pallet
- Greeding a pallet
- Pre-dropping a pallet
- Looping the killer for too long
- Holding W instead of looping
- Using the perk Head On
- Using the perk Windows of Opportunity
- Using the perk Dead Hard
- Using the perk Reassurance
- Using the perk Champion of Light
- Using the perk Decisive Strike
- Interacting with any special event activities
- Not interacting with any special event activities
- Hiding for hatch
- Using any survivor gestures within eyesight of the killer
- Using the crouch button within eyesight of the killer
- 99ing the Exit Gate
- Using a map offering
- Using any items or addons of rare or iridescent quality
- Playing the game with friends
- Interacting with killer objects, e.g. disarming Trapper traps or arming Flamethrower Turrets
- Breaking any Hex totems other than Hex: Haunted Ground
- Not escaping the trial within one nanosecond of the Exit Gate being opened
- Escaping the trial
- Picking the Survivor role
Survivors found to be guilty of "bullying the killer" can morally and ethically be treated however the killer pleases, including camping, tunneling, humping, head shaking, hitting on hook, head nodding, and being forced to bleed out.
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You forgot Queueing as survivor.
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That's not a good comparison. Being a disturbance in a movie theater is probably against their rules, and they can rightly kick you out for it. DbD also has rules that if you break you can get banned. People should be allowed to do as they please within the rules whether it's an online game, a movie theater, or anywhere else.
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It sure is easy to tell based on the comments who only plays survivor or who only plays killer. If these people bothered to play the other role, the amount of toxic comments on this forum would be reduced by like 90%.
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Both sides have unwritten rules they think the other side must follow. There's plenty of killers that say they will camp/tunnel/slug until bleedout if survivors break one of their unwritten rules. Killers will even use how survivors behaved in previous match as reason they are making the next match miserable - gotta punish the new unrelated group because previous group broke thst killers "rules." 😂
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I may not be the most knowledgeable when it comes to coding and stuff but its ridiculous to assume any dev team of any game encourages their players to cheat. They have absolutely nothing to gain as cheaters can literally give themselves any cosmetic and any DLC. Idk what you're smokin' to even think they benefit from this.
"Go to youtube and search for dead by daylight cheat / hacker and filter within the last 24h."
At the time of writing this there were 17 videos that showed up when typing in "dead by daylight hacker". 8 of them had something to do with cheats/a cheater, the others had absolutely nothing to do with them. Sorry that the number wasn't any higher.
Im also well aware you need to be very attentive to catch some people trying to be subtle with it and I can assure you, I have more than enough. Also if you actually knew anything about the situation (which I'm starting to doubt) you'd know that its only a handful of youtube streamers that stream themselves cheating and have a small cult following, so they probably get 5 bucks at most on a good week.
Also call me cute all you want, I already know that.2 -
Its not really a comparison, just a way of saying that using the excuse "I bought it, I can do whatever I want with it" is an absolutely terrible mindset.
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It’s a pvp game, you are not supposed to sympathise with the enemy and think about what’s better for them. Fair enough you are not supposed to screw over your team (in this case would only work for survivor role since killers are solo UNLESS it’s 2v8), so your team’s fun might as well be your responsability. No survivor plays for fun of the killer and no killer plays for fun of the survivors and it’s fair deuce.
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No, realistically both sides are just as annoying and entitled as the other and anybody biased towards one side misses on 50% of the game. At one point you realize it and role bias in this game get obnoxious and lack understanding of what this game is meant for.
Dbd but let’s not do it an Us vs Them challenge: impossible.
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doesn’t matter because there are toxic people that play both sides anyway
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Its not an argument, its a question.
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Boil over get you slugged and flash lead to gettin tunnel with lightborn.
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I'm curious how does the community enforce rules besides complaining about playstyles?
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First definition of "Sportsmanship":
fair and generous behavior or treatment of others, especially in a sports contest.I feel like this concept is completely lost on this generation. In the days before the internet, doing DBD levels of BM would have gotten anywhere from an ass beating to being entirely removed from the game. You are not responsible for your opponents enjoyment, but you are supposed to treat them at least with respect, and hopefully be empathetic as well.
The only reason we've normalized bad behavior in pvp games is because there is often a lack of accountability for it. People line up around the block to ######### around but almost nobody has to ever find out. Its why this game has such a unique "get punished for the behavior of the opponent(s) in the last game" retaliation mindset. Everyone is contributing to everyone else's bad experiences, while nobody wants to admit or improve when they're being the problem.
Post edited by Rizzo on3
