Why do people think bat form is op
I thought everyone agreed its his weakest form?
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It’s one of those things where, with enough game sense (and good headphones to listen to footsteps/breathing/Injured Grunts) that it becomes strong at a higher level but as a result will cause any other base buffs to exacerbate the disparity between his skill floor and skill ceiling, making it harder to add buffs elsewhere for the general audience.
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Yea but you have to get out of his power and you take hindered for 1or 2 seconds. By then the chase is on.
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The hinder is not strong or long enough, at least from my experience transforming out of bat.
And when you say people consider Bat form the weakest, I hope you only mean in chase, right?
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Yes, but it's a very small hinder and you have a ranged attack or dash depending on which form you changed to. There's very little chance to gain any distance. You can pretty much play Dracula as Spirit with a ranged attack
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… I always try to go for Drac M1 hits out of bat form.
Kinda feel dumb I forgot I could also just use the other forms power quickly.Need to see how a meat seeking dog missile works out of bat form.
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It's infinite Spirit power, and he still has Hellfire and wolf form on top of it. It wasn't really a problem until they massively buffed the transform cooldown.
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Does transform CD also block form power useage? How quickly can you use a power after transforming?
Wiki doesn’t show anything, and I haven’t really recalled anything that felt limiting, so probably just that same minor polymorph window prohibits input.
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Bat is the strongest because you can very quickly shift to and from it, it moves insanely fast, you can hover in between pallets/vaults to cause a 50/50 when transforming back, you can teleport to vault locations, and you can use it as a spirit phase with enhanced audio. It is so good that it makes wolf form completely obsolete for following up after a hit when in normal form, as you can just shift to bat and use your ears to close the gap.
His weakest form after the hug tech removal is wolf.
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The time he can spend in bat form should be limited, also there should be a significant recharge after he used bat form.
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I want to say it's about as long as the hindered lasts. Been a week or two since I played Dracula. I've never really noticed a cooldown out of a form change.
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Hot take for me but bat form is no bother for me since its only for traveling and well just stealthing good can counter it.
I still find wolf form more annoying as those free haste orbs is annoying and getting second chance to pounce immediately after missing the first is lame, should just have a more punishing recovery to gwt more distance as it reminds me of old xenomorph.
Dont even get e started on hell fire as the fact its a travel attack means it can hit you on stairs on maps with them and triangle head cant do that with potd
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I think you could be a bit less harsh with the nerf and still achieve the desired effect - after switching out of bat form, a timer cooldown before you can go into it again. I think spending a lot of time in bat form is fine for map coverage and scouting, you can stealth it if he's not following you mid chase, and it only takes a couple seconds in chase to catch back up.
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Because bat form lets you catch up to survivors quickly, and pretty much hit them right out of transformation.
That is why it is overpowered. Good Dracula players abuse the hell out of this.0 -
There's an entire subset of survivors who are incapable of or refuse to play in a way that is intended to 'dupe' the killer, which is to say playing mindgames at loops, crouching/doubling back when Spirit phases or Dracula is in bat form, or breaking line of sight against Nurse.
These survivors only play loops in one way, then insist on greeding pallets and then pallet blinding (the most braindead use of flashlights) and complain about any killers that force them to switch up their playstyle, e.g. the three I just mentioned, as well as most 'loop denial' killers like Dredge or Artist.
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We are in a hardcore shift w meta and bats counter that.
When survivors are healthy it's no big deal; you can just lose the killer. The trouble only starts when survivors are injured or there's a 3 gen
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You thought wrong. Even on PTB it definitely wasn't widespreadly agreed upon that Bat was the weakest form.
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This doesn’t apply to Dracula’s batform. He can outrace a survivor he’s just hit to a loop then immediately transform and hit them again. There’s no loop in the game that can stop this.
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You can play against bat form exactly the same way as you play against Spirit, and if he's teleporting to a vault then you do a u-turn the same way you would against Dredge locker-hopping or a Nurse blinking.
There's nothing about bat form that's actually new to the game.
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Looks like you’ve solved it. Now that we know making a u-turn against Spirit and Dracula completely shuts down core aspects of their chase abilities, survivors should never really lose against the phasing or batform again.
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No need to be facetious.
It doesn't need to be foolproof to be manageable. If bat form is a problem then so is Spirit, and she hasn't been changed so...
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Spirit is a whole killer. Batform is just one of several tools in Dracula’s kit. The form itself isn’t problematic; the lack of cooldown paired with the form makes it difficult to combat. And u-turning in chase doesn’t work.
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My biggest issue with bat form is that it really screws over those who are hearing impaired. We have the visual heartbeat, which was put in for hearing impaired survivors, yet bat form allows you to hear survivors better………unless you're hearing impaired
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Toss on Killer Instinct for Bat Form on survivors within 5m or so. That’d probably solve that issue, and make it much more obvious to players bat forms strength.
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dev are listening to this side of survivor player-base and there is no doubt that dracula being on the list of killer changes is the result of survivor complaining. i am not a fan and don't think dracula needs negative changes but your right in saying that any killer that require any form of mind-games and juking gets complained about.
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The only form that is weak and pointless is the wolf, the other two are pretty solid but not OP. Bat is mainly for mobility, it really isn't much stronger than a Dredge teleport for example.
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Bat form is decent and as a standalone form if anything it would need buffs.
The problem people seems to have is with Shapeshift cooldown(i have lost how many times did i say this..) but they keep bashing Bat form.
"He can hit me, transform and be on top of me in no time!", he already did that before Bat buffs. Yet the form was deemed as underpowered.
As a standalone form, bat form is not THAT good. Cannot see survivors, cannot see pools of blood, it is supposed to be undetectable but have a 48m lullaby, Dracula gives a global sound cue when he transforms, his teleport is hindered by both distance (32m) and teleport poins (only vaulting windows/pallets). He has some buffs like 50% better hearing and 6.5m faster mov speed but thats it.
But thats fine, he has more powers to work on, so the Bat form being just "decent" as a standalone form its fine.
And i will repeat, if they manage to nerf Bat form/Shapeshift, they need to absolutely giga buff Wolf form, which is terrible.
Im also surprised that people seems to complain about Vampire form / Hellfire? The attack is again decent as a ranged attack but has clear counterplay and you can also bait it like any other ranged killer.
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The speed of transition in and out of bat form negates any reward a survivor can gain while in chase due to it being one of the, if not THE strongest catch up tool in the game.
With a delay to the transition speed of the bat (not the other forms) , he would be perfectly fine.
Post edited by radiantHero23 on4 -
100% on the money. Well said, I agree.
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Do you mean a delay going into bat form, a delay coming out of bat form or both?
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Thats a good question. It would have to be tested, which delay would be more effective or if both should be implemented. Depends on how long the delay is.
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This I agree with. There needs to be a stronger cooldown. Being in console it's harder to constantly switch so I just go from wolf to Dracula. The only time bats come in handy is to go across a map. But I can see where it's strong but easily avoided.
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I agree with the bat form. The moment I hear The Dark Lord transform into a bat, I just start walking until another notification alerts me of another transformation. Especially on outdoor maps, you can see the Bats coming from a fair distance. The Bat form is useful for covering distance, but careful traversal normally results in safe passage.
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He could already do that before the Bat and Shapeshift buffs. And yet Bat form was deemed as "underpowered".
He already gets slowed down when transforming and has a delay on it where he cannot attack.
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Its a ~90% hinder for about 2s, and during that time you can't attack or charge up other powers. Its a decent window to play against it assuming you aren't in the open by nothing. (where every killer thrives anyways)
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Clearly not as a lot even here have said getting meleed while he is popping out of bat form.
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1f7ss8x/dracula_has_new_strong_bug/
Link proving you melee before you even leave bat form and can melee in to it for free hits0 -
Wow this is sick, however
8.2.2 patch
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Thank God, he can't immediately attack out of it. Spirit players would reconsider their entire existence if that was the case.
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Totally agree with you on that. Thats why i dont understand the "Bat form its just a better Spirit" that a lot of people are saying. Spirit can hit much, much, much easier than Dracula out of Bat form.
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The problem is, that the bat is very similar and even has some advantages (ignores pallets and windows / TP) when compared to spirit.
Dracula however has two more powers AND is 4.6. This might sound controversial, but a killer with that many powers should not be better or equally strong with one power as another killer, as this makes other killers feel obsolete (power creep)
Draculas bat is probably the best catch up tool in the game right now (ignores pallets and windows / has no range or time limit). If this is viewed in a vacuum, then it's absolutely fine. However, he has still two other powers on top of it. It's the same issue with Vecna. Multiple powers have to be relative weak to balance the overall power level of the character. Due to Draculas bat form being that strong of a catch up tool and because it negates any downtime a survivor can gain during chase I'm for a slight nerf to the transition speed for the bat form alone.
That's why I prefer killers with one power. It's simpler to balance.
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But again, as a standalone power, its already much worse than spirit. Spirits power its much, much easier to get a hit with (totally invisible, only an audio cue that is not always useful for the survivor due to how it works, you can instantly hit people outside of it).
Honestly just because he can TP (mostly useless in chase unless you have some addons equipped) and ignore pallets/windows doesnt make "equal" to Spirit. Spirit is much better to get hits.
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It's not about getting hits with it. It's about the whole picture. We are not looking at the bat in a vacuum here.
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