Perk Lethal Pursue has too many benefits and needs nerf
This perk, since it had the additional buff of 2 extra seconds, was already a very used perk, with the distortion nerf it makes it too strong with other aura reading perks, in my opinion, it should only have a single effect, or it just give extra time to other perks, or it reads the aura at the beginning of the match, a lot of people will come and complain about swf, but the one who is harmed is soloQ, swf even if they remove all the perks they will still be strong, so we must improve the sides that are weaker, like soloQ and some killers, and not make killers like Nurse and Spirit even stronger
Comments
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I fail to see the issue. The killer can mostly predict where survivors spawn, so that's only a bonus that helps with maps like Haddonfield that seem to have completely randomised spawns.
The +2 seconds to other aura reading effects encourages combining it with other aura perks, which changes the meta from slowdown paired with slowdown on top of slowdown combined with slowdown. That can only be positive.
I would still use the perk if they removed the +2 seconds because it's convenient and I like it (screw Haddonfield, no matter which side it favors!) but I don't think it's necessary or good. Less synergy = less reason to combine it with other aura perks = more available perk slots for slowdown. I thought we were on the same page, that full slowdown builds are boring to play against. Why do we actively try to bring that back?
Aura vision doesn't mean the killer sees you at all times. It means they will always find you, so there is almost no time in between chases, which is argued to be the most fun part about the game. I absolutely do not see the issue. Survivors don't like sitting on gens forever but at the same time we also do not want the killer to find us as fast? If the killer wastes time, they need more slowdown to compensate for that, which increases the time survivors have to spend on gens.
If I overlooked something, please tell me. I simply don't understand why so many people seem to hate aura vision all of a sudden, other than maybe due to overexposure?!
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Lethal's fine imo, it's just used a lot because it's nice to find survivors quickly, and the 2s extra aura reading isn't that big (plus it requires another aura reading perk). Distortion's still pretty strong after the buff too.
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it does 2 things and the main thing is only active once at the start of trail. Hardly a perk that needs a nerf.
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Lethal is fine
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You won't get killer mains to acknowledge that an overloaded perk needs to be adjusted, as you've likely already seen in this thread. Yes, you can often find out where survivors are without it, but knowing where the largest concentration of them are to apply more pressure is more efficient than just guessing an opposite corner of the map and praying RNG is on your side. Lethal should only activate on the obsession at the beginning of the match if they keep the +2 seconds for all aura reads.
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"Lethal should only activate on the obsession at the beginning of the match"
Hilariously terrible idea but not surprising to hear.
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It needs adjustments as it is too strong on certain killers and does too much. Yeah, I play both sides, so I'm considering both perspectives. It's used a lot for a reason.
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I'm not sure why the Distortion nerf is being brought up in this context, considering Distortion still counters Lethal at the start of the match and its increased duration to fifteen seconds means that most perks still won't punch through it even with Lethal's plus two seconds. Regardless of where it ends up falling otherwise, Distortion is flat out still a counter to Lethal Pursuer.
In general, I think Lethal is fine. It's a good example of how a top tier perk can be in that spot without being unhealthy or broken. It's just a solid, overall good info perk that helps killers get into chases quicker without being overbearing in those chases.
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Please explain to me how that's a terrible idea. Sorry you can't and shouldn't have every 4k handed to you on a silver platter.
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Lethal Pursuer provides 25% chance of the killer to initiate their first chase on you.
Even with those 25%, killer has to pray they will win the chase against you. Otherwise, Lethal Pursuer becomes a wasted perk slot even with those +2s to all other aura reads.
On top of all of this, Corrupt does much better job than Lethal ever will.
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Regardless of if lethal is in play, there is a 25% chance the killer initiates their first chase on you since there are 4 survivors whether or not you have the perk equipped or not. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there. The point of lethal is there is no guesswork. If they know the layout of a map, they can opt to chase a survivor that spawned in a weaker area rather than running to shack for instance. I agree that corrupt does a much better job. That's why a lot of killers run corrupt and lethal to start the killer snowball even faster.
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there is no guesswork, but even then survivor will most likely not spawn in the most dogcrap tile without any other at least filler tile to chain.
Regarding both Corrupt and Lethal being used, as soon as i see anyone using both of those, i know they are about to play with 2 perks later + it's a litteral bottleneck to their loadout since Corrupt alone can also help a lot in initiating your first chase.
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Why would I explain it to you? You already know it would make the perk uselessly weak, that's why you're demanding it. You're the kind of survivor main who would claim Agitation is overtuned.
But for anyone else reading: All it would take to counter is a survivor running an Obsession perk along with Distortion, or both in Object of Obsession, and now Lethal Pursuer doesn't do anything except the trivial +2 seconds to other aura perks, which barely matters.
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The issue isn't the perk itself, or even necessarily aura perks in general (though the increasing number of them may make things difficult). It's the extremely strong Killers who can use them to pin down Survivors quickly and never lose track of them. If Blight and Nurse couldn't see auras when using their powers, it would remedy a lot of these issues.
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You obviously do not play survivor if you think survivors can't spawn in deadzones lol
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i play survivor, not as much as i play the killer, but you definitely have time to get to the nearest safe tile before killer initiates chase with you
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Probably because this is a forum meant for discussion? But if you're more focused on ad hominem and assuming my intentions behind my suggestions rather than the merits of the suggestion itself, then it's clear you're not here for a discussion at all.
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Yeah, lets nerf lethal and give killers even more of a reason to stack 4 slowdown perks.
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"focused on ad hominem and assuming my intentions behind my suggestions"
Meanwhile, quoting you earlier:
"Sorry you can't and shouldn't have every 4k handed to you on a silver platter."
Focusing on ad hominem and assuming intentions. Funny.
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Not always. And even if you do get to a tile, it's not guaranteed to be safe. L-T walls are not safe, but you'll always find a gen that spawns there. Doing gens is the objective for survivors after all. I'm not going to stand in a safe tile for the first 30 seconds of the match.
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Just for the fun of it and because I so seldom engange in pure "us vs them hurdur!" would you use the survivor version of Lethal Pursuer, just like with WoO and old Zanshin Tactics, ie a perk that showed you all gens at the start of the match for, lets be generous, 20s, and then ceases to do anything? Would you use Eyes of Belmond, if this was its only useage? Or would the +2s aura reading sweeten the deal to chose Eyes of Belmond over some other perk like, lets say, Iron Will or Resilience?
And why isn't eyes of Belmond super meta, if this effect is so good? Info is everything in this game, after all.
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That is neither ad hominem nor assuming your intentions, unlike how you said "You already know it would make the perk uselessly weak, that's why you're demanding it. You're the kind of survivor main who would claim Agitation is overtuned."
Since you are not focused on the actual topic of discussion, I will not be continuing this conversation with you any further. Have a good day.
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The only reason you would say such a thing is to paint me as a killer main who thinks they're entitled to winning every match they get.
At least own up to your words.
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And to run back to the hook after they get the unhook notification.
I thought people wanted to promote healthy play styles, as in chases since many on here exclaimed that’s the most fun thing about the game. Now that Killers are able to get into chases faster no one wants to take part.
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It’s probably because maps have become smaller and weaker, and so many anti-loop killers are in the game. No wonder people don’t want to be chased unless they are exceptional at looping.
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Lethal is fine. This is almost as ridiculous as asking for distortion or WoO to be nerfed.
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So you claim that people want to do something other then being chases? What else is there? People always say that chests are a waste of time and most totems are worthless these days, so all there seems to be is sitting on gens, which people also claim is boring and uninteractive.
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A lot of people used Distortion before the nerf because they didn't want to be found or chased. Chases are becoming less enjoyable due to map nerfs and the increasing number of anti-loop killers in the game. I'd rather sit on a gen than engage in a chase that I know won't last long if the RNG of the map is terrible.
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Eh, Lethal's fine imo. The main effect only works once and after that it's just a minor extension of other effects, 2 seconds is useful but it isn't anything crazy.
The only aura reading perk right now that I think is a little too strong is Nowhere to Hide, it's a bit too free at the moment and the moving range is problematic.
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In my games, I find that the Survivors need to have a good early start or it's typically a speedy GG for them. As soon as the Killer can start to build pressure, it can be a runaway train and from that point the Survivors are always on the back foot. For this reason, I dislike facing Lethal and always have (even before it became much more prevalent). It has the potential to turn the flow of the trial completely on its head very early. The Killer should be stronger towards the end of the trial, when Survivors begin to die, gens are harder to find (or easier to patrol if the Killer defends a cluster) and resources dwindle.
I don't know what could be done to nerf it besides reverting the Distortion nerf. I think the early start that it gives you is strong enough to justify removing the extra 2 seconds of aura reading that it gives to other perks.
Personally, I don't like imbalanced Killer loadouts that are all slowdown or all aura etc. I think Killers should be encouraged to mix up their builds and bring a little of everything to a trial.
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Distortion still starts with a token and counters Lethal. So you wouldn't need to revert the perk for it to counter Lethal.
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The point I'm trying to make is that most Killers don't just bring Lethal. They also bring a bunch of other aura perks that will burn through Distortion tokens so quickly, you might never get it recharged again.
Besides, if Survivors don't run Distortion anymore because they think it's bad or low value compared to something else they could be bringing, the strength of Lethal becomes even greater than it was because no-one is bringing anything to counter it. I personally wouldn't waste a perk slot on Distortion these days.
Aura reading is incredibly strong on high mobility / sniping Killers like Nurse, Blight, Huntress and Billy because they can get very fast downs. Why have a perk that can make their aura builds even stronger? These Killers don't need slowdown if they can put the Survivors into a death spiral of continual hook saves.
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Other aura reading perks killers can bring into the match are not triggering that soon after the game starts. Distortion will still block the initial Lethal Pursuer allowing survivors to get a start on their early game.
At some point survivors just need to learn how to play around these other aura reading perks, because many of them are pretty easy to spot and counter. Such as using lockers to avoid BBQ or Friends til the End.
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And yet distortion was complained about on here to the point of it being nerfed, and people are still demanding nerfs to windows as we speak.
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If we had to nerf Nowhere to Hide, I'd give it the Ultimate Weapon treatment and center the aura-reveal on the generator itself instead of the killer. It'd still do its job at revealing the survivor hiding behind a rock 15 feet away.
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Yeah I agree. It actually was bugged at one point and worked like this and I think it actually made the perk a lot more fair
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Yeah the only aura perks I can think of that can trigger at the start of the match are Lethal Pursuer, Undying, Darkness Revealed, and Human Greed. Two of those aren't very good, and one of those isn't used for the aura reveal.
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It's used because it's consistent, convenient and offers synergy. Also, Lethal Pursuer isn't the most used killer perk. The pick rate according to Nightlight is 15.88%. Are we going to nerf every survivor perk with an equally high or higher pick rate too? Strength and pick rate go hand in hand but it's not as linear as: "That perk has a very high pick rate so it must be that strong."
It's more like "strong perk" ⇒ "high pick rate". That however isn't the same as "high pick rate" ⇒ "strong perk".
If some killers are problematic with Lethal Pursuer, then why don't we have their powers start on a cooldown like with Sadako and Dredge? I don't consider Lethal Pursuer on Billy to be a problem but I'd take that over nerfing a perk that is fine on most killers but arguably too oppressive on others. I want more perk variety on both sides, not less.
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Honestly Blight starting on cooldown would be completely fine.
I don't think that's necessary for Billy.
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This maybe off topic or rude to ask but can you explain that line of thought?
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Agreed. This and some killer add-ons that become nuts with the 2 extra seconds of aura reading. I'm looking at you Rat Poison Chucky...
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I really don't use it much as killer. Only when I've already got 2-4 aura things already, which are time-based. That means no real gen defence, chase perks, endgame, etc. Y'all have to raise your bar, is all I can say. If you can't handle the killer finding you, because you can't hold your own in chase for at least a bit, then that's your real issue. You are not owed being hidden the whole game. I'd instead argue that killers need base info to find survivors, to move the game along if nothing else. The skill on this game, the thing that should determine wins and losses, is the chase. So while there should be an option to stealth, it shouldn't be an inexhaustible thing that prevents killer-survivor interaction for minutes on end. Aura perks help with that, so I think we should keep them decently strong.
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You don’t have to be exceptional at looping. You can play it safe and not greed pallets when going against anti-loop Killers. You can also buy time by running to a different loop when the Killer uses their anti-loop ability since the majority of Killer powers are telegraphed to the Survivor and slow the Killer down.
I suck at looping because I could never get the hang of looking back at the Killer while running. Yet, I can still waste some time just by pre-running to a loop before they get to my gen, shift+W after dropping a pallet and using Lithe to make it across the map.
It’s not that people don’t want to be chased, it’s that they only want to be chased when they have all the cards in their hand like they used to.
Post edited by Huge_Bush on4 -
Me neither but I'd rather that than having the perk nerfed when it's completely fine. Billy will be fine either way.
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Ok, here's my thought process:
Blight, a killer who has one of the strongest chase powers in the game, can use Lethal Pursuer to see everyone at the start of the match, immediately rush across the map, and sometimes instantly land a hit within seconds of the match starting when survivors don't have much warning a Blight is headed their way or even know that it's a Blight until he's basically already on them. Blight is, for this reason, arguably the best user of Lethal Pursuer and is probably the one killer where I would consider it to be a little too strong as the beginning of the match is very often the most important time of the match for killer. A good or bad start very often determines how the rest of the game will go. If Blight's power started the match on cooldown similar to Dredge/Sadako, then all of this goes away and Lethal would drop in strength on him to be similar to the majority of other killers, without actually changing the perk at all, and would give survivors a little more breathing room at the start of the match against a killer that would otherwise still be extremely powerful.
Now, Billy can use Lethal and immediately chainsaw across the map in a similar fashion, but in general, Billy's chainsaw is a little easier to dodge than Blight's rush is, and while Blight can bump into something and then change direction, Billy can't really do that without stopping and restarting the chainsaw. In addition, his chainsaw has a 60 meter noise range. Meaning that even if you are not in the terror radius or don't see him, survivors have a little more advance warning that he might be heading towards them + the chainsaw noise immediately tells them who the killer is and that they should be prepared. With all of this in mind, this is why I don't have an issue with him being able to use his power immediately.
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The only problem, my dear friend, is that players who prefer hide and seek over chases (me) aren't exactly thrilled to see Lethal Pursuer almost every game.
I don't think it needs a nerf, just wish it wasn't meta.
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I don’t like facing it and wish it wasn’t meta as well since I too prefer the Hide-n-Seek aspect over chase. But as you said, it doesn’t need a nerf.
I do wish they’d revert SpineChills to its pre-nerf state so it would be less tedious to face.
Post edited by Huge_Bush on2 -
I had a fantastic match the other day where I spawned outside of RPD just past the corner of the front exit. I didn't even round the corner into his LOS before the Billy who spawned in the center was revving straight towards me. Me, with one terrible pallet and a great stretch of nothing in either direction. Was a very fun and very quick match. :)
I despise this perk.
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They already put half of their build into seeing auras which means that's half their build which isn't slowdown perks
I think thats fair
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We heavily disagree with that line of thought but thanks for indulging us
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