New sadoka playstyle
Comments
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My problem with condemned is that her chase is damned to be bad because of it. I want condemned and her chase to be in a good spot like in her first version (sure condemned needed some buffs, but the buffs from the reworks would have buffed 1.0 significantly already), where she was so much more fun to play as and against. The sad thing is, as long as all the focus is on condemned, she will never get any buffs or changes to her chase, which is a very cool aspect of her, but overlooked by so many.
I think they should make, that you always spread condemned around one TV and every 60s every survivor gets one stack of condemned (if not hooked or slugged). Thisway there would be passive condemned build up, she could get buffs in other areas and she wouldn’t be designed to constantly spam tp to get stacks on people (at least less).
I think your idea is fine too, but I like it more to have one full stack, that gets spread.
40 condemn per second for holding tapes.
Tapes would instantly make you fully condemned after one second 😅. What would happen to the other 33stacks?
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#########, I meant 1 condemn every 40s, or 0.025 condemn per second 🤣🤣🤣
But on the plus aide, it would achieve the goal of stopping people grabbing tapes xD
Interesting, as I say, I don't know 1.0 Sadako very well, and it's hard to track down a full explanation for her original power. I've pieced together what I can, and I know she was very dependent on her iri to turn hrr tvs back on, what was her chase ability in 1.0?
Is there a reason not to grab tapes in this version?
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Well her chase ability was the same , but a lot less limited, because of no TV auras and constant availability of all TVs. Most Sadako players back then ignored the condemned mechanic and just chased with her. I’m not saying she was perfect, but with just buffing her numbers back then, she would have been. That’s basically what I did in my Sadako wishlist suggestion, which I linked in my last response to you, where I buff every aspect of old Sadako.
I played her hit and run and was constantly switching targets. It was like chasing multiple people at the same time. I chased them away from the gens and switched targets and repeated it. From the survivor perspective it was also a lot more fun too, because you never knew, where she would come from and therefore you never felt save. Another thing that didn’t exist was the visual heart beat, so most people didn’t even know she had a lullaby, because it is very silent and her stealth ability did actually work. Basically you switched targets all the time and kept the whole team busy and sometimes you condemned people and then go for them. The funny thing is, I never played for condemned and it happened at least once in three matches, so people who played for it could archive this very consistently.
I would not say she was addon dependent, because her addons were a lot better back then. The TV cooldown addons were quite useful, all the tape related adddons were good and her chase addons were good. You had much more variety in my opinion since you weren’t forced to playin a certain way/for condemned. It was optional and not like now the only viable way to play her. Most of her addons are now outdated, because they are still designed for 1.0. If you only see the condemned part of her power, then yes, she was addon dependent, but that’s not how most people played her back then. Most just used her mobility to be omnipresent everywhere on the map. She was so scary back then.
Is there a reason not to grab tapes in this version?
Tapes were a risk (every 25s 1stack), so most people didn’t take them, except when they did not want to get chased, so they disabled the TV and she couldn’t teleport to them. Secondly they were taken to remove stacks, when they got too high. Another problem with the mechanic was, that TVs stayed longer inaktiv if you teleported there (100s) than when survivors disabled them (70s). Tapes back then had a completely different concept than now. They were meant not to be touched if not needed to, while now you have to touch them without even thinking a second about it.
But on the plus aide, it would achieve the goal of stopping people grabbing tapes xD
🤩👍
Post edited by Langweilg on1 -
Oh I gotcha, cheers for the breakdown, I'm glad to say that (mostly) falls in line with what I knew about her.
The 100s cooldown was the one that stuck out to me, there was that iri add-ons that turned back on all TVs you'd projected to after hit from manifestation.
This looks like it just made her better in every way with her push people into TVs and cut off gameplay, and it was my understanding this add-on was the one that really would make or break her, but that's obviously only from what I understand talking to others.
Regarding tapes, I was asking about your reworked version with the passive 60s condemn.
Is there a reason not to grab a tape? Does the tape do anything other than turn off the TV and help remove condemn? Or is this going back to the 100s projection and 70s tape recovery on TVs?
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I loved iri videotape and I was so sad as they removed it. I wished they just nerfed it accordingly and kept it.
Is there a reason not to grab a tape? Does the tape do anything other than turn off the TV and help remove condemn? Or is this going back to the 100s projection and 70s tape recovery on TVs?
Tapes would only be for turning off TVs and removing condemned and they would give 1 stack of condemned every 25s like in her first version.
That is basically how I would change her. I would keep the things from the current version, that I don’t mention.
I would add to the changes I make in that discussion, that every 60s every survivor gets 1 stack condemned, so the focus is not on spamming the teleport button all the time, but I don’t know wether it would be too much. In that discussion I added to her first version, that hooking a survivor gives all other survivors one stack of condemned, so you have to do something for it and to reward to actually chase someone instead of spamming. This would also pair well with the condemned lock in.
In there I go over chase buffs (making her flicker better, TVs no longer turn off after a teleport, the lullaby…..), addon changes/ideas, that could also be done to the current version and a revert part to her first version with buffs to condemned (range increase, hooking survivors spreads condemned).
Sorry for copying this discussion in again, but if you are interested, that are the changes I would like to see.
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@UndeddJester iri tape was what made her consistently viable. That's why this addon was so problematic. It was basicly the only addon you every saw on her because it made her a lot easier to play and gave her kit a lot more consistency.
It's similar to the problem clown had and Myers very much has. One specific addon is so strong that it elevates the killer way too much. This becoming a hindrance in case that the killer actually gets some buffs.
I think a proposal back then was to make thw addon partially basekit and to rework the addon completely. This would have been an incentive for her to actually chase people and because her chase is so bad, every hit would actually make an impact. Obviously this idea had its downsides in form of being very strong in slugging situations.
The real issues back than was ring drawing in terms of unhealthy playstyle and iri tape because it made her a lot more easy and consistent to play, resulting in everyone using it.
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Iri tape wasn’t problematic and the last ring drawing version (without the slugging part) wasn’t either.
Sure iri tape without adjustments in the current version would be too much, but her old version with todays buffs and that addon would be fine. In the current version I would make that only one TV spreads condemned and keep it as it was.
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Her old ring drawing was an issue, until they fixed it to where slugged opponents would not receive condemn upon pickup.
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I said, “the last version of it (without the slugging part)”wasn’t an issue. I haven’t denied, that the first version wasn’t good.
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I propose this to the devs.
Revert Sadako to 1.0 - keep the following changes.
*Keep the Reduced Tv cooldown times
*Cannot be stunned while demanifested
*Keep increased speed coming out of TVS.
*Stealth fixed and corrected from Patch 7.5.0
*Revert Yoichis fishing net back to 12% faster on passive condemn on tapes.
*Revert old ring drawing to give condemn upon heals only not slugs OR make current ring drawing base kit.
*Keep the Lock in condemn.
New - The Onyros lullaby has been dramatically increased in size from 24 meters to 45. OR reduce it to 18 meters.New - The Onyros TVs now turn on after 20 seconds. (Was 30)
(I feel like I am missing stuff?)2 -
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I missed that part - sorry. 😅
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I basically want the same, just a bit more.
Small correction: TVs have a 45s cooldown after teleporting not 30s.
About the lullaby: I would prefer it being 18m or smaller since it directional and I don’t want survivors to have wall hacks on me with a 45m range.
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Iri tape was absolutely problematic. It elevated her too much. That was the problem.
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As much as I would love this to see happen. Im very certain, that it wont. I assume that they dont want to deal with her anytime soon, considering how many problems they have to deal with right now. Sadako is probably one of their lesser problems compared to characters like:
- Freddy
- Myers
- Skull Merchant
- Nurse
I would hope to be wrong but I just dont see it.
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I hope she gets some love too, it would be nice to see her going up a few tiers strength wise but I also have a feeling the devs aren’t really interested in her just now (which is also why i’m so keen for them to fix her demanifest bug in the meantime).
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I agree my friend. Truly. 💯
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these are all good 👍🏼
i would like to see them up the lock-in stacks to 4 and i actually wouldn’t mind if she had a map wide lullaby (like dracula in bat form) if they’re gonna keep it - at least it keeps survivors guessing where she might appear.
basekit reiko’s watch + old newspaper too (without the bugs😊)
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I agree with you :)
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I'm happy to hear your revisions for 2.0, but just saying 2.0 is better, which can only even be argued as possibly true in the very thin band where survivors are good enough to not get steam rolled, but not good enough that Sadako gets completely minced... is not helpful.
the reason sadako got steamrolled is because her chase is bad vs good players. the tapes effectiveness or ineffecitve scales on the survivor's ability to loop and how easy or how hard it is to loop depends on chase power being effective.
inevitably, while i do think her condemn is not in a good state, i don't think buffing condemn is correct play in her current state. i think correct play is to buff her chase so that her chase is more viable vs better players. She's a bad m1 killer alongside a poor condemn mechanic. as much as i want her condemn to be better, her chase should be adjusted first. Flicking invisibility doesn't work in its current form because as soon as you see first flicker, you can guess the direction that killer commits on long loops. her invisibility needs to be way longer, a single instance of invisibility and her passive invisibility should be more aggressive flickering.
as for her condemn, i think a more simple change is to allow sadako to build condemn by hitting a survivor. a single condemn stack. The other condemn buff that i think i would do is change her ring drawing to no longer grant 1 condemn stack but to instead lock condemn of All survivors in the trial when sadako successfully hooks someone.
Summary:
- When Onryo hits a survivor, the survivor condemn meter is increased by 1
- Reworked Ring drawing to lock all survivors in the trials condemn up to 3 when performing a hooking action.
- Reworked her manifesting to turn her invisible for 1.5 seconds
- Reworked her passive demanifest state to have faster invisibility flickers.
I am not saying your changes would be bad. I am just offering different suggestions that i think would be superior in my opinion.
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I am not saying your changes would be bad. I am just offering different suggestions that i think would be superior in my opinion.
All good, sorry to bust balls man, I was just having a hard time resolving your stance on things 😁
I think your reasoning makes sense here, just a quick question, cause its not immediately apparent, are these for 3.0 instead of 2.0? Cause these changes sound like they're for 3.0 given the suggestion for ring drawing, but youve quoted my 2.0 line.
I'll assume its for 3.0, this idea is actually quite interesting, mostly cause her condemn lock in features more in her kit. After all, 2 hits on a survivor is 2 condemn, which will be the common condemn lock in unless they get a tape off mid chase somehow.
If Sadako's game in 3.0 wasn't better with hit and run, this would be possibly overtuned... but considering she wants to hit and run there is more of a trade off here... commit to one survivor for more guaranteed condemn, but reduce the pressure map wide, or drop chase and try to keep a global presense with TV control. It makes sense.
I might be a little worried though how much she profits from hitting someone off hook through BT or OTR, and there's also more potential condemn value from slugging.... though countering Dead Hard is nice.
I'd probably have to see in it action, but a mechanic such as a full stack for hitting healthy survivors and a half stack for injured might be worth looking into.
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Its an interesting concept. I'm more used to the idea of survivors wanting to turn TVs turn off of course, but it makes sense if taking a tape wants to be discouraged.
The demanifest changes look good, no objections to any of that.
The condemn on teleport having its own individual cooldown per TV is a cool idea in conjunction with the TVs never turning off when Sadako uses them. That makes it more clear of the trade offs.
You would need to redo iri add-on though, if survivors have accepted the penalty for taking a tape being able to undo it with the iri makes that add-on pretty busted unfair. Either have TVs stay on unless you take a tape, or the iri (with nerfs) to turn projected TVs back on. I don't think it works if you can do both, unless the iri brings back turning off TVs to mess with Survibors grabbing/delivering tapes.
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I think your reasoning makes sense here, just a quick question, cause its not immediately apparent, are these for 3.0 instead of 2.0?
they're 3.0 idea's.
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I tried to make suggestions for the current version and 1.0 with the thought, that behavior might not do every idea (for example TVs stay on), but you are right iri tape would be a bit unfair with that version. Maybe it should only turn on 1 TV or the following idea could be its new effect.
- Sadako can tp to a turned off TV and activates it afterwards again, she does not spread condemned when doing it. 🟢/🟣/🔴
Only to clarify I made all the suggestions, that aren’t the revert part, also for the current version.
Post edited by Langweilg on1 -
Personally I think Sadako is a super fun killer. She is my main and I enjoy her so much.
I think there’s room for a few improvements:1- When a survivor reaches full condem, make them exposed and broken until you down them or they deliver the tape. This makes condemn a bit more impactful.
2- Give her a slight speed increase if you Demanifest - Manifest. That would help on chases.
3- Downing a survivor carrying a tape and hooking him, gives everyone a condemned stack, basekit.0 -
I’m very certain 1 and 2 will never happen since exposed would be too much in combination with a mori ability and getting a speed boost after uncloaking is wraiths thing.
3 should definitely be basekit. I would go even further and say: Everytime you hook someone, every not downed/hooked survivor receives one stack of condemned.
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A full condemn should at least injure the survivor. I think it would help a bit. I mean, Pig traps for example, they have dire consequences and you are not forced to chase anyone or down them for them to have a Mori effect.
I have more suggestions:1- Like I said, full condemn should injure the survivor at the very least.
2- At 3-6-7 stacks of condemn, survivors scream and reveal their location for 3 seconds.
3- At chase, survivor gets .75 condemn every 10 seconds till he escapes. Then it goes to CD for the Onryo for 30 seconds. Like only if you chasing actively.
4- Survivors carrying a tape being chased are hindered 5%.
5- Survivors being chased while carrying a tape are blinded.
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Sadako is my main as well and the suggestions between your two posts aren't so much improvements as they are massive buffs.
A full condemn should at least injure the survivor. I think it would help a bit. I mean, Pig traps for example, they have dire consequences and you are not forced to chase anyone or down them for them to have a Mori effect.But Pigs traps are limited in how many you have and they deactivate in chase.
Condemn and Pigs traps aren't meant to be ways that the killer can win. They are meant to provide slow down which, if the survivors push it, can be a way to eliminate the survivor.
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i DO think carrying a tape should have a risk, such as a status effect (eg. exposed after a certain duration of holding it) and ring drawing base kit if hooked with one - they are cursed after all but at the moment they only provide benefits for survivors.
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I don’t think is such a big deal injuring a survivor that has ignored 10 + manifestions to rush gens. That’s the problem, most strategies involve ignoring tapes till they are basically fully condemned, sounds good for Sadako, but it’s not, cause by the time you are going for the kill, the game has progressed too much. It’s very easy ignoring the mechanic and the consequences are not that bad. Like I said, Pig slowdown has a stronger consequence, Pinhead for example, his slowdown is forced to every survivor, they need to do box to even play, etc.
Other option could be a basic aura reading base kit, because if you go for perks that give you information, you are sacrificing not using perks that help you down survivors or pressure gens.Final thing could be helping her end chases. Maybe idk, something like, after a while you can instantly go through a pallet, something.
I don’t expect every single thing to be applied, but I do think she could get a buff.0
