DBDs Forgotten Killer FT. Scott Jund
This Killer has the lowest Pickrate and is extremely unfun for Killer to play as and Vs against as Survivor they can never be buffed without a major rework to her kit and that Killer is the Artist.
Scott talks about why she has the lowest Pickrate despite being an ATier Killer and why it's a good thing she was forgotten by Devs cause nobody likes to play against her.
Do you think Artist should receive a Rework to make her more fun to play as and play against?
Comments
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I think she's a niche killer that has her playerbase and changing her for the sake of appealing to the majority that will play with her for a week and then drop her is disrespectful to people that enjoy her already.
DbD is supposed to have a killer for everyone. Not every killer for everyone.
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I remember Peanits saying once that they don't work under the assumption that everyone will play every killer. They assume people will have their favorites and some will be more popular than others and that's okay. It probably matters more to content creators because playing every killer is kind of their job lol I don't play Artist but I don't personally have an issue playing against her
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But if it's so small basically nobody plays her and nobody likes playing against her they just go next. Wouldn't that warrant changes should be made to her? In terms of fun and niche how is she any different from Twins yet they change and rework twins?
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no, it doesn't.
artist takes decent skill to use efficiently & can be countered to a reasonable degree and if survivors cant be bothered to learn what they can do against her and instead opt to give up, it's survivors' issue that they continuously make worse for themselves every time they choose not to play against the killer they lack experience against.
generally speaking, survivors "giving up" against something has lost any credibility as a litmus test of a killer/mechanic being objectively problematic since skull merchant 2.0 being gutted. A killer that objectively had nothing worse than what legion/clown could do to survivors, yet hated billion times more because people made it socially acceptable to do so. Waaah but SM 1.0, but bad lore but my personal hatred but but but but just die.
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Anybody who's faced against a decent Artist nobody likes vsing cause there is no decent counterplay while her skill ceiling is low and a boring killer in general to play as
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I see along more artists over Freddys, SMs, hags, and Onis lately.
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I rarely play against Artist, and thank the Entity for that.
This killer is not fun to go against, imo.
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If she became more played do you think Devs would nerf or rework her?
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Way more bigger issues to tackle than this. This will literally be creating work for nothing. Plenty killers have annoying kits to survivors so changing her base on that pointless.
"low pick rate" there's 37 killers right now somebody have to be at the bottom. What are we hoping for? everybody to be perfectly at 2.7% pick rate
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Shes at 1.6 she's barely exists cause nobody finds her fun or fun to play against she's a more extinct version of Twins players
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When she was released I remember I absolutely hated her. And she was a fairly popular killer for a while. Then the hype died down and now we are here. I wish people played her more and I wish she allowed for more skill expression rather than "I spam birds in this tile so press W to leave the tile or get hit". Definitely an unfun killer to face, but I'd gladly take a couple of Artist matches these days that everyone is playing either Blight, Chucky or Wesker…
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No, I think they would leave her as she is unless people started a hate campaign against her.
Then they would nerf Artist. Just like Freddy after his release. Just like Skull Merchant recently.
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any who's faced against a decent "name the other side's thing that is viable" nobody likes vsing cause there is no decent counterplay while "name of the other side's thing that is viable" skill ceiling is low and a boring "name of the other side's thing that is viable" in general to use.
i wish people in this community were capable of appreciating skill input of the other side or acknowledging their skill issues.
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She's 2-dimensional. Literally, her power is 2D (E: or arguably 1D if you want to consider individual crows) and (mostly) ignores conventional game mechanics at infinite range. I think that removes a bit of the dopamine hit you'd get from landing power hits with other killers, and maybe that's why people don't play her as much.
…also her chase music is LOUD. Her cawing is LOUD. Even her birds resetting when you don't use them is LOUD. There's a lot of audio stimuli going on there and it can be a bit daunting after awhile.
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Yep, I hate her on both sides. Very boring killer.
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I mean that's pretty much what happens when a killers gets played alot no?
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Except there is no skill input for Artist drop bird at loop and launch when they cross the line the skill ceiling is slow low yet shes ATier cause shes uncounterable at chase and loops
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except theres no skill input because only the things i like take skill, everything else is just pressing buttons and it's actually very easy and everyone can do that.
btw, if artist takes zero skill, why does she have such a low killrate in community fed stats which are notorious for generally having higher KRs than overall average BHVR look at?
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You really acting like a child repeating what I'm saying huh?
Anyway yes she doesn't take skill and if you bothered to actually watch the video Scott explains it
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I mean, yeah, in general it would make sense to make Artist fun to play as and fun to play against. But this would also mean that she would need to get some Nerfs. And once you are talking about that, Killers will start to complain about those evil survivor-sided Devs.
Because in the end, some aspects of her HAVE to be nerfed in order to make her more fun to play as and to make her more fun to play against. Straight up Buffs only would probably fix the "playing as"-Part, but not the "playing against"-Part.
And honestly, I am not sure how BHVR wants to do that. The last time they tried it was with Trickster and they are thinking about reverting most of the changes, since people dislike them, even if it was overall a Buff for Trickster, which made him more boring to play and also less fun to play against.
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things i dont like always take no skill, i will keep repeating that because accusing something of taking no skill is the most bulletproof thesis one could imagine, right after something i dont like being no fun for anyone.
bhvr totally must change a niche killer people lack experience against to ruin them for people who enjoy that killer so that people who refuse to learn will keep losing
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please take at least some of your time off forums to listen to people who actually play trickster and why they were asking for the changes to be reversed instead of repeating false information said by other people who dont know how the killer worked.
and yeah, while we're at it, trickster is the most blatant recent example of WHY people should stop crying for niche and not very popular killers to be changed for the sake of appealing to the majority.
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You refuse to see and logic with your ignorance we're done here
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i refuse to engage with bad faith argumentation
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Hi killer main here we don't like Artist either except her 3 mains that use her she can go for a rework and nerfed and nobody would be upset she's changing cause again she's majorly unfun for both sides
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It is interesting that asian communities(Im in China) usually put Artist to low-mid level in tierlist.
Despite she has great zoning and info abilities, holding w or mindgame dodging could be very efficient against her. Even in many China community tournaments artist rarely has good killrates.
What/s more, lacking of mobility and snowball potential, map and addon dependent are also lower her skill floor.
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i refuse to engage with bad faith argumentation
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so do i, glad we have an understanding
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No. She is fine.
She is a killer that is incredibly fun to play as, but boring to play against. Playing as her, you have a power that gives you map control, anti-loop and skill expression, all with the same exact ability.
And playing against her, well... yeah, that is basically Birddemic.
But you would have to completely destroy her identity to make her a killer that survivors will enjoy facing. Which, well... do you remember Skull Merchant and Freddy?
Also, using a Youtube video as an argument makes you look sheepish. Writing something on the forums because some content creator said so won't male your argument better, it will only drag it down.
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I don't think so, tbh.
Skull Merchant wasn't played a lot as far as I know. In my experience she was somewhat of a rare killer before her nerfs.
Freddy? Perhaps, but he is a horror icon and had just been released, naturally his pick rate would be a bit high. Nerfing him a week after release was completely unnecessary.
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Never said anything else.
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i refuse to engage with bad faith argumentation
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Like so is drac it's a recurring pattern
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I think Dracula is a bit overtuned, tbh.
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Agreed but still
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I want to like playing her, but the gameplay loop is generally the same thing.
Because her power is anti loop, the current play is mainly "just leave the loop". So using M2 mainly results in "holding W". Which is understandable, because as survivor it's frustrating to have your only resource shut down completely unless you voluntarily eat a face full of crows.
I feel like that's the main complaint I have though. Using her power for information feels good, and crow sniping is fun.
I don't have any real solutions though to this problem, since she's designed as an anti loop killer at the core. And I don't feel like a nerf is in order, and a rework seems excessive. Might just not fully be a killer for me.
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I think she is fine. Let her mains enjoy her. What I find strange is in recent killer tier lists many put Artist very low while she should still be A-tier?
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I like playing as Artist, did have a stint where she was one of my top 5 killers, and all her tricks like the 2 overlapping shots cross map, the single crow into shotgun combo, the information across map is all really fun.
I similarly kinda like vs. Artist, with having to watch out for these same tricks, making use of lockers to break crows, running into a stationary crow to deny a loop cut off... these things are all fun.
The one thing that is frustrating is her ability to close off the entire side of a loop can be with boring to use and face. There have been times I've been playing vs. a survivor at a tile like shack and in my head I've gone "bird across the window side is a guaranteed hit here", and it's hard to convince yourself not to use it... this is literally the point of your power...
I much prefer the 1 shot into scatter shot combo, cause your first shot has to be good, and the scatter shot itself can be avoided completely if the Artist is lazy with positioning and timing... however this takes a lot of cooldown and time to actually down someone... playing around her crows popping up as sentries is fun in this playstyle.... However her crows need lethality at close range, otherwise she is just too slow at downing survivors.... but if you take away the sentry approach, and just have her launch crows, she is just Huntress 2.0... and she loses her identity.
I don't really see a way you can rework her to remove the more boring anti loop part of her kit, without completely defanging her, as without it, she is Huntresss with extra steps.
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Rework her to shift towards the Snipe playstyle more while removing the anti loop and perhaps a new ability for her.
They really could just give her basekit spies from the shadows to her since it makes sense to her power and theme.
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She can’t be that unpopular; she’s featured in the current rift. I faced an Artist yesterday.
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Artist is fine, I don't think she is a broken killer, she is much like unknown in ways with the 2 hits required and knowing the niches of her power to counter her.
People just don't pick her coz she has a barrier to entry/not for them, with her CD growing longer as she uses more birds is a hurdle for some and the wierd anti camp for her birds that only she gets but not other killers….3 -
I mean lockers completly remove any incentive to go for long range shots, so people play huntress
Hold w braindead birds won't work because the playerbase already learnt how to counter it.
The mid range crow through wall then hit don't work because there are so many killers that outperform her at that range such as Unknown, Nemesis and Dracula.
Name one thing she performs better than any other killer
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she shuts down loops consistently.
her gameplay is very calculated and methodical.
i played a bunch of artist in scrims and it's much more different than something like unknown or dracula or whatever where you have a lot of margin of error in precision or reaction. they are much more potentially threatening, but there's way more speed and reaction time requirement involved for both sides. they're way more fast paced.
artist doesnt require any of that, it's a pure strategy and turn based combat. which is understandably not very fun for a lot of people, but it's one of those killers that you can play against efficiently regardless of your ping or reaction time. she's entirely about strategy and planning in chase.
plus she doesnt have to be better at something if that isnt the only thing she does. she can do multiple things and combine them and that makes her a very solid option, especially for people who want more slowly paced gameplay.
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There is only this one here, but thats not a regular occurence ^_- (btw, shameless self-insert here, hahaha)
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Artist is the type of killer that nobody plays but everyone has due to her great perks. Therefore, it is an easy to feature character because many players have this one. In addition, her appearance provide many good cosmetic ideas, which is why she is often featured in rifts or gets new cosmetics. Skull Merchant, Knight, and Trickster have a similar phenomenon: These three killers are rather disliked and less played by the community but their appearance is really good for different cosmetics which is why they often get new cosmetics in the store or are featured in the rift/event tomes. Dredge is also a rather less played character but gets so many cosmetics because it is easy to create cosmetics for it.
This is my guess why she gets so many cosmetics despite her low pickrate.
I also think due to the fact that many players rank her really high and everyone has this character or want to have her perks, newer players give her a few tries but drop her really quickly because she is difficult to play, understand, and master - quite the opposite of Wesker and Blight who are easy to understand but still difficult to master. So you will either face a casual Artist player or one of us five Artist mains.
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The fact you take Jund's words like a holy grail OP is admirable.
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Could you link those scrims? Im open to the idea of artista filling the turno based combat niche, but I havent seen it work well against good survivors.
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Against better survivors the second crow doesnt hit because the see the aura and react.
Also that just showcases the synergy between scarred hands and slingshot artists, making the later playstyle better.
Good job on preventing lockers countering you though, enjoy your new follower!
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I rarely play killer these days but Artist is one of my fav killers to play, she is a bit clunky and I think that can put people off but using aura builds and getting snipes is very satisfying.
However I found a lot of survivors absolutely hate her and just give up on hook and while I know that should not stop me from playing her, reality is that it does as I prefer a match where everyone has fun or at least wants to participate.
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I think Artist is in the same vain as Hag where you can play them simply; turn brain off and plop your power at loop or you try and go for big brain plays.
Artist also has a lot of mid range use of dropping 1 bird, trying to get hit and then shotgun which even if it misses can force people to avoid straight lines and give you a hit before they reach the next loop. You can also use your power for decent info.
Against higher level players, yeah she'll struggle unless your a top tier yourself but so do the majority of killers. If you're some random and get placed with a top tier team then you probably lose no matter what killer you play.
I enjoy playing Artist once in a while but I don't think I'd say she's fun overall which is certainly a major turn off for people. As for the topic question, no. I think she has her niche and that's fine.
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