Shoulder the Burden won't stop the killer from tunnelling
Infact, this perk encourages the killer to tunnel and camp. It does quite the opposite of what it should be doing. It helps the killer who does it but the killers that don't tunnel and camp will be punished for it. The irony of this perk, promoting something that most survivors abhore, and make it more sufferable for the killer who don't tunnel and camp.
Funny, isn't it?
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Could you elaborate?
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- Find the weakest link.
- Tunnel him until all are death hook.
- Win a game by spreading hooks equally by tunneling.
This doesnt work well against good and patient survivors but its possible.
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So tunnels the same survivor for 6 hooks.
And that's worse than eliminating a survivor in 3 hooks?
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This comes up when the idea of shared hook states gets discussed. Nothing is worse for the survivors than being down a player. The worst looper in the world still occupies more time than an empty slot.
And, if hypothetically, the survivor is truly that bad or trolling then:
A: the survivors don't have to use the perk
B: the survivors are almost certainly doomed with or without the perk.
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This still buys the team way more time then it would otherwise
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Waiting 60-70s to do it each time too...
By the way Seraphor, wasn't it you who had a suggestion very similar to this perk at some point? I was gonna necro that post if it was, cause I think the limitations you put on it were very healthy (assuming I'm right?).
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(New Thing Comes Out), "(Insert Thing) will encourage tunneling and camping and slugging otherwise the sun will explode and the Earth will be turned to ash."
We've done this song and dance too many times. If you are playing to win, you are going to use the best strategy available, and new perks and/or perk changes are not going to change the fact that people who want to win are going to optimize the game anyways.
Think of it like this.
When regression was at its strongest, people still tunneled, camped, and slugged. When Survivor was at its weakest, people still tunneled, camped, and slugged. The strength of a role does not matter, people who want to win will tunnel, camp, and slug.
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I've suggested it a couple of times in comments. I wouldn't care to dredge through my post history for them.
My idea was a little more restrained though as it would only work on survivors that are on death hook and then make that survivor immune to any other uses of it. So it could only theoretically be used twice in any game on two different survivors, i.e. Survivor A > B, and Survivor C > D.
But I wouldn't have suggested the scream and expose penalties.
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I don't know, I managed to get a game where I managed to take a kill from a killer who was actively tunnelling.
It's gonna be a lot more situational than people think, it's most effective when you're on 0 hooks and someone else is on death hook, but it'll have the potential to really throw a wrench in the works if someone's intent on hard tunnelling. You just have to be a bit smart about it.
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It certainly won't stop tunnelling, because if a Killer wants to tunnel, there are no amount of BPs that would prevent it.
However, this won't cause any increase in tunnelling. The perk is to cause problems for those who do, so it's unlikely to prevent it.
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Part of the issue with the perk is the tell and Exposed. If a Killer tunnels and camps (which, at least with my definition of tunnelling, is virtually synonymous) and a survivor screams when unhooking that shows they have Exposed. The Killer can easily drop them and hook them. That doesn't prevent tunnelling in the case of solo queue; it just switches who's getting tunnelled out first as the unhooker is now on death hook (or dead if they already had a hook state going in).
That wouldn't be the case in a 4 person SWF as a 4 person SWF does have the tools to coordinate. SWF does not so instead of providing an actual tool to help solo queue who are the majority of survivors it just makes 4 person SWF better.
It would at least have some utility in solo queue if the tell didn't exist but, as it is now, it's of marginal utility.
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calm spirit
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Personally, I don't think much of the new perk. From a killer point of view I'm happy with repeatedly tunnel the same east target while the team throws away hook stages on keeping them alive. Or if it does effect me, slug them to bypass the whole perk.
From a survivor point of view, it's too risky. I take up a perk slot and I'm the one being tunneled? Not much use in that scenario. also especially in soloq the way people give up on hooks, hide for the hatch and generally not play as a team, I won't be giving my hook stage to them and I don't expect them to do it for me.
Only real advantage is swf, it COULD be useful in certain situations but it's still not much use if killers slug.
since the Mori update people have been getting annoyed with the increase of slugging. This new perk could potentially make that even worse.
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I play SWF and we don’t need this perk to achieve the same thing it does—without the risk. It’s not really useful for us either. We can still juggle hook states and save our perk slots for something useful to us.
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This I was about to say the same since me and my swf know how to loop and if needs be body block, this perk is worthless like all of this new survivor perks is just whack and more of killer perks lol.
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The fact that the detriment is the exposed status just encourages camping, they need to change the exposed status to something else.
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BHVR could implement a feature that teleports the killer away from the hook and a survivor to the hook for an instant rescue and someone would still be a gold medalist mental gymnast and create an argument as to how it makes tunneling and camping and slugging stronger.
If it makes survivors stronger or killers weaker, killers will tunnel/camp/slug to compensate for it.
If it makes survivors weaker or killers stronger, killers will tunnel/camp/slug to take advantage of it.
Apply this to literally everything that exists. It's nonstop.
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That's true. It's why I think the perk is bad. As I play nearly entirely solo due to my erratic schedule I can't see it benefitting solos and SWFs don't need it.
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It won't stop tunneling, unfortunately, but it will help survivors fight against it and that is a good thing.
Tunneling is something that shouldn't be easily done, there must be ways to fight against it and they need to be good.
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It’s one of those perks that I think will be more of a detriment to solo queue than a boon (pun intended). What’s most disappointing is that the devs are evidently trying to address survivor grievances but… in like the laziest, worst ways possible. They couldn’t buff DS to 5 seconds—with at least 2 of those seconds being animation-locked mind you—but can release this pseudo killer perk..? Sigh.
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Calling this a pseudo killer perk is a massive exaggeration.
Maybe we should wait until it’s actually released before jumping to conclusions.
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Don't think it's goal is to stop tunnelling. Just make it a bit more of an inconvenience. It'll be used by those confident in chase to try protect those weaker in chase. I believe the survivor who has it can only use it once, so unless the killer intends to camp from the start of the game (irregardless of the perk being in play) then by the time they know a player has the perk, there's no point in camping.
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This is easily the most overhyped perk I have seen in years. It won't be anywhere near as good as people are claiming it's going to be. Everyone will stop using it when they realize how easy it is for killers to counter. People will just camp and down the unhooker. Then he's on death hook. No one in solo queue is going to use this when they realize it instantly puts them on death hook and in a position to be deleted every time they use it. Doesn't solve anything and isn't even a strong perk. The exposed effect is completely unnecessary and ensures that this perk is dead on arrival.
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As far as I can see, using this against a tunnelling, camping killer will actually help them whereas a killer that isn't staying at hook will get little benefit? Will encourage them to slug or camp more than they actually are!
In the hands of a solo queue player with no communication, it's actually more likely to make the team lose but a SWF will be able to use it, although a SWF group that are decent playing with each other won't need it anyway.
Only thing could be if it is busted paired with another perk, but we'll have to see what happens. It will probably be niche and useful occasionally but not as much as people are thinking.
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FYI: exposed doesnt matter if you're injured already. it's also harder to tunnel a person if they have to be hooked 4 times.
thanks for yet again validating my mindset that people who complain about tunnelling will refuse to use anything developers give them unless that thing would outright ban killer for attempting to tunnel.
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Why would someone who is injured be attempting an unhook anyway?
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because they would become injured when "sweaty camping" killer would inevitably hit them as they trade?
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Its a killer perk in solo queue
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Correct. Nothing will ever stop killers from tunneling. As long as it remains the absolute easiest way to win, nothing will change that, especially not a perk that requires coordination to be effective.
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Camping was nerfed not that long time ago with extra time on hook, so don't see the issue.
This perk would be kinda broken, if you could use it in front of the killer without a worry.0 -
Correct. Nothing will ever stop killers from tunneling.
I mean, old BBQ which gave a lot of BP for hooking unique survivors was quite an effective way.
For many killers it was first priority (kinda alternative win condition), so it highly reduced at least 5 gen tunneling.1 -
It won’t stop tunneling but the perk will make tunneling a little more difficult/annoying. Sometimes it’s hard to spread hook states because the Killer will refuse to chase certain Survivors for whatever reason. This perk allows a 0 hook player to force share hook states when the Killer decided to ignore certain Survivors.
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I agree; I think it'll be a detriment in solo queue as well.
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I don't see how you could ever come to that conclusion. The killer tries to tunnel someone, they get potentially 2 more hook states on them. Some killers can't get 5 hooks before match end. I feel like you're complaining just to complain.
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It won't encourage tunnelling, but it will encourage Killers to go back to the hook more often to incentivize hitting the unhooker doing this. That isn't tunnelling, that's playing around the hook. This perk encourages using a hook trade tactically and is something many altruistic teams already do. It's used to protect vulnerable weak players and that's it, and 9/10 times will result in a confident player self-sacrificing. It will also encourage the Killer to NOT tunnel and instead go for the unhooker, which I thought we all agreed not even a year ago was much preferable to a Killer tunnelling something out.The perk encourages Killers to spread hooks and NOT tunnel.
Some of y'all really need to realize that action happening at or surrounding an unhook isn't always tunnelling.
The point is to make for an interesting mechanic for self-sacrificial altruist playstyles to help the team even if they are out quickly; not all the perks need to be meta strong to be fun or good just like not all the Killers need to be meta strong to be fun or good. This is an interesting perk with a unique mechanic and a reasonable downside meant to help protect weaker players so they aren't hard focused out the match.
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I don't know who you were attempting to quote but I'll throw in a response.
If the Killer is attempting to tunnel the most likely case is that the perk will be used in solo queue to unhook someone who is on death hook. The unhooker will now scream and be Exposed so the tunnelling Killer can now hit the unhooked Survivor who now has one hook state, Endurance and a speed boost. Or instead they can hit the unhooker who now also has one hook state, no Endurance, no speed boost and is Exposed and now, instead of spending time on chase to get two hits, has a Survivor still on death hook and any time gained by the Survivors is nullified by the fact the now on death hook Survivor couldn't chase and the Killer gained time. This is a net neutral at best for the Survivors.
If the unhooker had one hook state the unhooker is now dead (one previous, one from the perk and one from being Exposed and announcing it by screaming). This is a net gain for the Killer. The tunneller wanted to remove one Survivor early and did so.
If somebody is just using it on a freshly unhooked Survivor just in case they think the Killer is tunnelling instead of having one Survivor with Endurance in chase with one hook state you have an Exposed Survivor right by the Killer who gave up chase time to instead be on death hook and ripe for elimination if tunnelled. This is also a net gain for a tunnelling Killer.
So in the best case scenario for the Survivor they lost a perk slot that might have done something useful and gained a net neutral. If the unhooker had a previous hook state the Survivor has now gotten themselves eliminated by using this perk. So the Survivors now either have a dead weight perk or are down a whole teammate by using this perk. That's why this is a pseudo Killer perk for solo queue.
A SWF could bring a body blocker and rotate hook states to get use from this perk but there are ways of doing that that don't require this perk. Since solo has no idea what perks their teammates have, no way to communicate, haven't practiced with their teammates before and have no idea even who their teammates are solo queue doesn't have the tools to get any advantages from this perk. Hence, it's a bad perk for solos.
Getting rid of the scream and Exposed might give it some anti-tunnel potential in solo queue but, right now, it would be better to bring any other perk that has some utility.
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