DO NOT LET SHOULDER THE BURDEN GO LIVE

Compared to stuff like ds and OTR, I don't see, how you can abuse this?

I understand, that some killers often come in situations, where they FEEL they have to tunnel to WIN. However, this is often either due to the lack of strength of the killer, the lack of a positive mindset or bad gameplay.

In regards to the third. It's fine. We all make mistakes. I see tons of people, especially content creators that lack the ability to reflect on their gameplay.

This perk does not seem to have that many abusable things. Hookstates will run out eventually. It's even shown to the killer.

I am not liking this perk, but its not MfT levels of brokeness out of the box. Sure, it can make playing SWF a real hassle >__< But we can't outright deny every good survivor perk out of the box and then rage that we see nothing but the same old 6 perks in use.

I guess, if you're in a really specific scenario where only one person is on death hook and someone has 0 hook states and that person has StB, then you're put in a worse position because everyone's hook states are normalised… but that seems pretty specific to me, how often is that likely to happen?

It's not even as though that's unwinnable, either, at least on paper. You still have hook states, you've still created deadzones, you're still mounting pressure, just somewhat less than before.

I don't know, I think I'm okay with the anti-tunnel perk having one specific niche scenario where it also does pretty okay, that doesn't seem like a huge downside to me. Maybe I'm wrong and it'll happen constantly, but right now, I'm not particularly worried.

Yyyyes you did? You're backing it up now by saying that you're talking about players who tell their teammates to run a perk. That's a coordinated 4-man, and if they're coordinating to also keep one person out of the action to use their perk in a specific situation, that's a level of coordination that goes beyond the norm. That's a coordinated 4-man group, solo queue players can't do that and neither can other configurations of SWF.

The killer is also not "punished at every angle" for "remotely anything", I don't even know where that's coming from. Specific unbalanced cheese strategies have been getting weakened, like tunnelling and camping, and separately I'm making the claim that learning the fundamentals makes you less susceptible to balance changes, but none of that translates to either killers being punished or it being because they're doing stuff that just makes the game easier. There's obviously way more nuance to it than that.

As for it being a crutch, it is one if it circumvents basic gameplay and your gameplan revolves entirely around that. If that doesn't describe a crutch, what does? I'm not saying it's like, morally wrong to use crutches in games, do whatever you want, I'm just pointing out that relying on crutches means you're gonna be in trouble if those crutches are ever taken away or made weaker.

Like, for instance, a perk that exists to answer that tactic. Your opponents are allowed to have tools that actually affect your gameplay, after all.

One thing to note about this perk is that your tunnel target can simply change. It takes very coordinated balancing of hook numbers where all 4 people have the perk and take eachothers hook states, but the person that just took a hook state from someone now might have 2 and can become the new tunnel target. So it is only effective up to 4 hooks because after that they could only trade who gets death hook

It’s really outstanding that every single person that supports survivors buffs, claims to be the best killer player in the planet, winning every game , destroying comp teams and laughing at how easy it is to play killer.

It’s not. If you are winning every game, you are not in your MMR yet, when you reach that, you’ll find what happens when survivors just play decently for their objective.

There’s a reason why basically killers play with only 3 perks, one has to be dedicated to corrupt intervention.

“Tunneling”. How many more perks you need to avoid it? Hell, the simplest counter is keep doing the gens. Off the record, DS, etc, now this?

Really guys. Realistically, a team of decent survivors cannot be beaten by the best killer in the world if they use this perk paired with the already existing perks there are.

Spreading hooks is just terrible if you want to win. Seems survivor mains just want the killer to be chasing them like a puppy while knowing for a fact they will escape.

Comp, decent players, are the benchmark for the state of a game, not random emotional attitudes towards the gameplay. “Play fair and nice and spread hooks and don’t tunnel and don’t slug and don’t do this and that” all of that, is just a way of saying you want to assure you will win. Good players either teams, pros or good streamers have proven time and time again what’s possible to achieve when you play to win, in such escenarios, the killer is basically screwed without certain strategies.

When every single game in competitive DBD requieres tunneling and even face camping a hook, you can see there’s already something off.

I always get the “but DBD comp is not the experience we all get” of course it isn’t. These guys play to win. I do understand that after the first game they play for hook stages, but the first match sets the tone for that, that first game proves the state of the game. If you keep 4 survivors up you will lose every game.

The reason why killers actually win games is because survivors aim to rescue and escape with all 4. If they played to win and escape, they would escape at an even higher rate.

You cannot bring goofing around mentality when balancing a game, of course you get games where survivors are just messing around , give up, dc, beg for free wins, but that is not an indicator of how the game is at its core. Right now, facing a decent team of survivors is very very hard as killer, specially considering that not everyone plays the same killers. There are well defined killer tiers and with some is actually very hard to win.

It’s really outstanding that every single person that supports survivors buffs, claims to be the best killer player in the planet, winning every game , destroying comp teams and laughing at how easy it is to play killer.

You don't have to be best killer on the planet to win vast majority of your games and there are stats to support that. Average kill rate is around 60% excluding games with DCs, so in reality probably 65-70% if you include that, you only have to be slightly better than average to win 4/5 of your games, it's just math.

And I never said that I destroy comp teams, but you're going to face comp teams in like 1/100 games, vast majority of games are against solos/2 mans and it's super easy to win

It’s not. If you are winning every game, you are not in your MMR yet, when you reach that, you’ll find what happens when survivors just play decently for their objective.

I'm facing 4 man SWFs that average 5k hours on regular basis, but I guess I'm still not high mmr :((

Also it seems like the most popular dbd streamers are not at their mmr yet too, because they're winning almost every game :/

Bro, you don't know how mmr works, people with 300h are playing vs comp teams because it's so easy to get to the soft cap.

And stop bringing comp dbd to balance discussion, it might as well be totally different game, there are perk/add-ons restrictions, they're playing on very few specific maps ect. ect., it's not experience 99,9% of players will ever get, full stop

If you can't win the game because you needed 6 hooks to kill someone (and lets not act like this will happen in more than few % of matches) you just played badly. You're not supposed to win every game, as simple as that

What should this comment even imply? Being a tunneler is nothing heinous in itself, its just a part of the game - like "tool box user" or "med-kit selfhealer". But I guess a short two-word statement like this makes you look hip and edgy in your peergroup.

The statistic is a bit mmm angled. The BH stats also show that survivors escape 40% of the time, we talking about individual players. There´s 4 of those EVERY match. That means that each one of them has a 40% chance, Im no math expert, but that means that, considering that a "win" according to BH and MMR is killing at least 3, it adds up to more than 40%. Yes, killing one starts to lower the chance for the survivors to live, but each having 40 means that the killer win stat is not as simple as you all love to put it.

We also have to consider that survivors can be mashed together in a single stat because they are basically the same, just re skins, where Killers are vastly different from each other, their powers range from worthless to extremely powerful so we cant just ignore those factors.

If you are having a field day winning, good for you, but thats not the experience of most killer mains. Geez dude, as you love to toss the "simple stuff" factor, AFTER 1 CHASE if the survivors are not goofing around they will have completed 3 out of 5 gens. After 1 hook. Don´t you think the game goes a bit too fast? I think that Haunted by Daylight showed us a possibility, because people were messing around with secondary objectives that rewarded BP and were fun. Games were a bit longer, you had a bit more freedom chosing perks, etc.

COMP is not a different game. It is the game played at the highest possible level. Just like in other games, the maximum capacity of players is used to gauge the state of characters and game design. You can´t just neglect everything saying " well they have more skill". I KNOW that they play for hooks, but thats the second game, on the first one, where the killer is doing ALL he can to win the game, it´s a forced strategy to slug, face camp, tunnel to have a chance. It is.

Now, you can ignore COMP, lets pretend you are completly right and is different to the point of being a "DIFFERENT GAME" (lol sorry). You CAN´T BALANCE A GAME with FACTORS OUTSIDE THE GAME DESIGN CORE. If a good group of players can end a game in 5 minutes against the best killer player in the world, you have to at least take a look at the state of the game. Killers DO NOT dominate comp as you mention it. They dont. Thats why there are rules in place to actually make it possible to win against survivors that are playing at their maximun capacity. YOU HAVE TO BALANCE A GAME TO WHAT IS POSSIBLE TO DO. Everyone, eventually, plays to get better. The mayority of people play to WIN, not just clowing around etc. So, eventually, the skill base of players keeps rising and rising, if you neglect how the meta game looks like and just ignore the fact that is possible to utterly destroy a killer in 5 minutes, you are condeming your game in the long run. The game is succesful because of the thrill factor of surviving, facing the odds, right now is more like, unless survivors play EXTREMELY ALTRUISTIC, MAKE A BUNCH OF MISTAKES OR SIMPLY PLAYING TO ANNOY instead of winning, the killer will lose.

There are lot of strategies survivors can use to counter every killer and most of them just involve rushing gens. Thats something to consider, also that holding a mouse button and sometimes pressing the space bar is by no means a hard skill to learn. If the game rewarded good chases, looping and strat from survivor side, we need to find ways to slow it down and give some type of objective to survivors so they can pursue other strategies instead of just, RUSH GENS, PRESSURE, END THIS.

Why do you think that slugging and tunneling exist? Do you think BH decided that’s how it should be played? NO, players came up with this meta strategies after thousands and thousands of hours playing the game, finding what works and how to win. Game balance is exactly the same, you have to attend player complaints sure, but at the same time, consider every factor of why such strategies exist in the first place.

The problem is that balancing killers is harder than balancing survivors, because each one of them has different abilities and different power levels. Can’t just judge all of them, mix them in a bowl and claim that playing killer is easy, because it’s not, every killer main feels the change. If I play a brand new killer, right now, one that I have never played before, I will get a field day, but after certain amounts of games, every single one becomes a nightmare till you suffer enough.

Finally, brining streamers win rates into the conversation while neglecting competitive is just as incoherent.

What map and what Killer is it required to tunnel to 4K and I shall prove you wrong.

There you have it. All comes down to the emotional, player choice of “you don’t need to 4K” be nice, get blood points so on and forth.

That’s irrelevant for game design. GEEZ. You are not better than the best players in the world, you are not, you play casual and you don’t care if you win or lose.

The “use your killer powers” LOL, where these people come from? Killer powers… you are suggesting that every single killer has the same chance?

You want an utopian type of gameplay where everyone plays casually, don’t care to win and play by community standards. Have you lived life?

By game design, if one side, being survivors, apply their best tactics and simply do their objective in order to “win”, the other side, the killer side, has no chance to win. That might sound ok if you don’t care to win, good, that’s your choice, but that doesn’t mean that something is correct with the design of the game.

Like I wrote before and no one has challenged my post, you cannot balance a game considering community approved standards of game play. You have to adjust the game to what is possible to do, what could happen as people adopt better tactics and utilize your game elements to win, in such case, the new perk, paired with the all ready existing perks, cause an imbalance in the game.

By game design, if one side, being survivors, apply their best tactics and simply do their objective in order to “win”, the other side, the killer side, has no chance to win.

This has literally never been proven. It's a bunch of chickens running up and down the forums and regurgitating it over and over, but no one has ever shown anything of the sort. In fact, what little experimentation has been done with regards to this showed the opposite: Hens and four of his friends each ran a number of consecutive matches wherein they not only did not tunnel, camp or slug, but they also played these matches without using killer powers.

And they each won the overwhelming majority of their games.

If you cannot win without tunnelling, that's you getting boosted by a crutch. If this perk tanks your winrate, then you indeed could not win without tunnelling. But what you go on to call an imbalance is just you getting your OP toy taken away.

I play Sadako dude. I don’t tunnel or slug or camp hook. I’m saying that there’s evidence of the imbalance, I’m saying that what you define as lack of skill (tunneling) became a thing because it was deemed as a way to play the game to win.

All I get are emotional responses. You can’t balance a game based on that.

I took my time and wrote a lot, just to get the same duh response of “u not good if u need to Tunnel” my god.

Lmao, are you maining Trapper and playing with meme builds by any chance?

First of all, you're supposed to lose gens early on, you have no pressure at the start of a game so this is pretty normal, you're not supposed to 4k at 5 gens, losing 3 gens doesn't mean that you can't win, but anyway, if you simply put on corrupt there is no way you lose 3 gens before your 3rd hook, unless you're absolutely terrible in chase (which might be true in your case tbh), or you're playing vs comp team, which again, happens so rarely that is not worth discussing