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17 games in and my 2v8 stats are concerning
I took notes on all my 2v8 matches today, and I'm not liking the results.
Playing survivor only (queue times are too brutal for me to try killer), either medic or guide.
Game 1: Blight + Billy. Yamaoka. 8K, 5 gens left. Miserable game. Killers raced around the map and racked constant downs, were always zooming over to cages to harass them and instadown the healer as well as the uncaged person. Killers slugged last 3 survivors for the 8k.
Game 2: Trapper + Deathslinger. Dead Dawg. 2k. Both Trapper and Deathslinger appeared to be skilled with their killers, with good trap placement and accurate/well-timed shots, but it wasn't a combo that had very much map pressure. First death was at one gen left and the other was a gate catch.
Game 3: Spirit + Deathslinger. Campbell's Chapel. 0k. Neither killer player seemed very good at their killer, and they spent a lot of time teaming up together, which allowed gens to fly across the map.
Game 4: Wraith + Deathslinger. Autohaven. 1k. The Wraith player seemed very new and didn't use lunge attacks, so the Deathslinger carried most of the weight that match. Not an especially fair match. Saw a Maria in the lobby and had to pick James so I could follow her around.
Game 5: Trapper + Huntress. Family Residence. 4k. Very balanced match. Killers spent a lot of the early game tag-teaming, which may not have worked out very well for them.
Game 6: Trapper + Huntress. 5k. Autohaven. Was a wild game, everyone started dying at around 2 gens left and 3 survivors powered through the last gens and managed to sneak gates open in the midst of some long chases. Killers would've gotten a 7k if they slugged instead of caged at the end.
Game 7: Wraith + Blight. 8K, 1 gen left. Asylum. Blight was very aggressive about returning to hooks to tunnel, but wasn't nearly as good at it as Billy is. Slugged last 3 to avoid hatch, but this went on for about 3 minutes with Unbreakables and stealthing so they eventually gave up and caged someone, then camped hatches. Major medic abuse this game where two injured medics would tag-team mid-chase and simultaneously activate their abilities to fully heal both of them.
Game 8: Blight + Spirit. 2K. Autohaven. Killers spread hooks and didn't get their first kill until lategame, but did have a lot of 2-hooked survivors for most of the game, so gen speeds were out of control. Constant positive modifiers while solo repairing gens.
Game 9: Huntress + Wraith. 5k. Yamaoka. Got their first kill at 2 gens remaining, which is the same issue – these players would have done better if they'd played meaner. I had a positive repair speed modifier for most of the match.
Game 10: Wraith + Billy: 7k, 1 hatch escape, 4 gens done. Coldwind. Another very unenjoyable match. Less drastic slugging this time, but Billy kept focusing cages and going for one-two punches on the unhooker and the uncaged player, so people went out pretty fast.
Game 11: Wraith + Trapper. 1k. Autohaven. Gens flew; the Trapper spent the first 4 gens setting up traps and the Wraith didn't even get a down until 3 gens done. A lot of Scouts restoring pallets this game, which neither killer dealt well with.
Game 12: Spirit + Huntress. 0k. Yamaoka. The Spirit didn't know what they were doing and got maybe 5 hits all game, so the Huntress was basically forced to solo. Was the first game where I consistently had negative repair speed modifiers.
Game 13: Spirit + Blight. 5k. Dead Dawg. Spread hooks near-perfectly (first death occurred at 15th hook, 1 gen remaining – 6 players 2-hooked and 2 players 1-hooked), but performed better than previous teams due to strong killers with high map presence.
Game 14: Huntress + Trapper. 3k. Mother's Dwelling. The killers weren't very experienced and got totally outmatched – only 7 hook states were achieved before gens got done, and most the ones that followed were from survivors taunting at the gates. The lobby progressively turned into more and more Scoops Ahoy Steves as time went on, which is extremely important, because Steve Squad.
Game 15: Nurse + Trapper. 2k. Campbell's Chapel. The Nurse was quite good– match ended in 17 hook states – but the killers just didn't play mean enough. More medic abuse – last gen was done in Nurse's face with 3 people taking hits, and then 2 medics erased the health states. Offered Trapper a flashlight and a kill at the exit gate but he said no.
Game 16: Deathslinger + Trapper. 2k. Autohaven. Deathslinger was doing a neat Undetectable playstyle with the Shadow role, but this combo just doesn't have enough power to handle the gen speed. Only 8 hook states before gens were done.
Game 17: Spirit + Blight. 0k. Thompson House. Maybe 14ish hooks by endgame, but spread out too evenly, and survivors used their powers too effectively. Blight didn't seem too good at hitting his rushes.
Out of 17 games, 3 were a stomp in the killers' favor, 3 were close games, and 11 were stomps in survivor favor. So far, this has been very survivor sided, but it's worse than just that.
More than anything, 2v8 has been power-crept. And that's antithetical to what made 2v8 fun. While Trapper + Wraith was known to be pretty bad last time, and Huntress was queen, everything was... roughly in the same ballpark. Stacked Guides and SWFs using Escapist in a group were pretty rough, but there wasn't a lot of need for sweating in either direction. People enjoyed the fast, chaotic, and casual games.
Now Medic and Guide have been buffed to enormous efficiency, with rising survivor gen speeds baked in. Which makes the game passively very survivor-sided. But there's two ways to counter that - tunneling/slugging, and meta killers. When killers use either one of these strats, they can tie with survivors and their busted basekit - if they use both, it's a miserable stomp and there's very little survivors can do.
But also, when you look at more meta killers becoming available, the less powerful killer picks are falling off in capability. Billy was previously implemented, but in a heavily nerfed state, and while Nurse is as meta as they come, she's limited by the number of players who are capable of playing her through both the skill floor and the frustration/poor sensory experience. Billy, Blight, and Spirit are all more accessible… and in the current state of 2v8, Trapper, Deathslinger, and even to a lesser extent Wraith are much less playable, because the game just keeps getting harder and faster.
Tl;dr, killers are forced to play meta and they're forced to play mean.
So:
-Guide did not need buffs, full stop.
-Medic buffs are welcomed, but the group 50% flat heal is abusable in pairs and dangerously efficient in a group. This should either be tweaked or take longer to charge, because the only times I didn't always have it when I needed it was when the game was snowballing out of control in the killer's favor.
-The gen speed modifiers benefit survivors even in games they're winning. Gen speed reduction from competed gens is minimal and survivors have 3x the modifier potential. 7 or 8 survivors can still have a positive repair speed modifier on the last gen when this is clearly a survivor-favored gamestate.
-The gen speed modifiers punish killers for spreading hooks. Survivors should not get speed boosts from cage states, it should be strictly from dead survivors. Or better yet, just get rid of the gen speed modifiers entirely. This isn't just rewarding killers for tunneling and slugging, it is actively hurting the ones who don't play in ways survivors traditionally despise. If you don't tunnel, not only do you have more survivors on gens, but they individually get faster repair speeds AND they unlock extra bonus perks that make them even more powerful.
-As such, in every game I played where killers won, killers were tunneling and using at least one high mobility killer. If killers did not make an attempt to tunnel people out early, they usually lost and occasionally drew.
-Even discounting the significant survivor repair boosts, gen speeds per gen completed don't slow down the game in a linear fashion. If 2 gens are done and 3 are being worked on, it's not 10%, 15%, and 20% delay in sequence for those next 3 gens; most of those three gens will be done at a 10% delay, with only the last bits of those gens getting a further speed penalty.
-Billy is probably overpowered, though I will admit 2 games is not a big enough sample size to judge. He's the king of map mobility in outdoor maps, which all of these maps are, and more importantly he's the only killer in this mode who ignores health states. Trapper is still underpowered, and with matches going faster than ever, he can't cope with his early game picking up and setting traps. But Deathslinger is even worse and desperately needs buffs.
Comments
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To begin with, gen speeds are insane and there's no arguing with that. However, I think that the worst problem in 2v8 is that it depends a lot on the killer duo you get, even more than in 1v4. In 1v4, killers on the weaker side of things can compensate their own weaknesses by running perks that synergize with their powers and somewhat strong add-ons. And change their playstyle according to their perks/add-ons. In 2v8, the weaker killers get pretty much no perks nor add-ons. So stronger duos have a much better time than weaker ones, even when compared to 1v4 where stronger killers do have an advantage over weaker ones, but at least the weaker ones have some tools to compensate.
Gen speeds are crazy tho. No matter what killer you're playing.
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I know I tl;dr'ed hard, but that's pretty much my biggest complaint. Survivors can't do anything against tunneling Billy + Blight, or Billy + Nurse, or Blight + Nurse. But on the flipside, survivor basekit has been buffed so hard that the less competitive killer duos have no hope at all unless the survivors are potatoes or memesters. Trapper + Slinger and Wraith + Slinger were pitiful. It's basically forcing you to go meta to win.
Killers can't currently be matched with themselves. I wonder if the correct way to balance this is to place killers in separate classes that can't be matched with each other, either - like, Nurse can't be placed with Billy or Blight. Wraith, Trapper, and Deathslinger can queue up together if they want, but won't get thrown together if they're both solos. But that'd just make killer queues even longer.
Or ideally we could just try to balance killers better. Trapper and Slinger definitely need buffs, in addition to some flat survivor nerfs that seem pretty necessary… and the removal of the tunneling incentive.
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Gen speeds are awful.
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Something else I forgot to mention - I do not like the Scout ability to respawn pallets. Scouts are already very good, cutting through the chaos to tell their team what's going on, but this is a specific kind of unhealthy that punishes the weaker killers and doesn't do anything to the stronger ones.
In 2v8, there's a lot of pallets. Big map, double pallets everywhere. And you're either against killers that have to play around the pallets, and spend most of the game breaking them because there's too many for them to deal with - Wraith, Trapper, Slinger - or you're up against killers that don't care about the pallets and can ignore them or shred through them - Billy, Nurse, Huntress. The only good killers that are meaningfully hampered by pallets are Spirit and Blight, and they at least can force pallet drops faster than some of the others. But for everyone else, it's just reinforcing the gap between viable killers and unviable killers.
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I've played 17 games also. Didn't keep track of what killers I faced though. Escaped in 15 of them. One was a hatch escape, the other escapes were pretty much landslides for the survivor team with at least 6 escapes.
The hatch escape was on the Chapel map where we heavily 3 genned ourselves. Overall though it's been a procession in the survivors favour.
Killer wise, the vast majority of matches contained Huntresses just like last time. But the most deadly duo, not surprisingly seemed to be Blight and Billy. They seem way more powerful than all the others. One Billy was just going around downing everyone very quickly. He is going to be a menace the next couple of weeks. I'm not sure what it is but the others just can't seem to keep up with how quickly gens go and the size of the maps. They just can't pressure enough against 8 survivors.
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Side tangent. I’d like to point out Huntress can not ignore pallets, I’m not sure why people think she does. Maybe 5 to 10% can be ignored. A 110 killer that moves at 77% when holding and an audible ready up sound has to deal with almost every single pallet like the rest because if you lose the 50/50 and the survivor greeds it and they end up getting a free 3 extra loops. So 9 times out of 10 the best play is to disrespect it and swing through. And the process repeats.
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the hand holding with gen speeds needs to go. It’s incredibly frustrating playing very well and hearing the gen pop noises constantly. The killers have zero gen defense. Not even pain res or pop. So it makes kicking gens useless the regression speed isn’t enough. There’s also too many gens that spawn on the map.
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I've mainly played killer. I haven't kept track of how many games I've played like the others. However I know I've played somewhere around 10ish games. That said, only 1 game did we get an 8k. That 8k I might add had all the gens done. It was a very close game that they just couldn't get the doors open in time.
Every other match has been roughly 2-5k games. There are a few things I'd like to point out from my side.
Gen speed is just absolutely insane and needs to be toned back a bit. The amount of gen rushing is wild. Coupled with the fact survivors can bring in items on top of having a strong class. While flashlight saves are cool, it gets annoying when it's all the time. If survivors get items, I feel it's only fair for killers to get addons.
Outside of gen rushing the only class that I have an issue with is rebuilding broken pallets. You get 1 or 2 players just going around resetting loops and it becomes a nightmare. You think you have a deadzone set up only to find out all the pallets were rebuilt and their strong loops are back up wasting more time. This doubles down on the current gen rush state 2v8 is in. The matches quickly landslide out from under you feeling like you have no real power to control the flow of the match.4 -
Some killer combinations are just so much weaker than others. A fast killer like Billy wraith or blight with something opressive but slow like huntress or nurse works very well and leads to fun and close games (at least from what I've seen) Meanwhile if you get something like huntress spirit it's more or less a stomp since they don't have the speed to really build map pressure and get survivors of gens.
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Played my first game. Holy ######### is that gen speed nasty
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This mode will always be tricky because it's harder for the matchmaker to place two killers and eight survivors. I have 5k hours and I've been matched against killers with temp profile names in this mode. Clearly new players. And I've also gone against killers who whiffed on multiple basic attacks in chase. Sometimes it seems like one of the killers is AFK.
It's going to be tough to really evaluate this mode on an end-result basis given how much the matchmaker has to stretch to fill matches.
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I've only played 6 (survivor) games but it's been 50/50. 3 games killers won and 3 games survivors won.
Edit - 7th and 8th games were both a draw (4k, 4e). 9th was survivor win. 10th killer win, 11th survivor win.
Post edited by Nazzzak on4 -
I’ve seen two games where killers got more than a 3k. It’s been survivors stomping the killers all day, and it hasn’t even been close.
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Played a lot of killer tonight with my buddy, mainly running blight desthslinger. Most games we get 2-5 killed but are also having everyone on death hook. Been fun and glad I have a reason to play this game again.
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Huntress still has to worry about pallets being dropped on her head, even if she makes the play unsafe and survivors have to be smarter than usual to manage it, but once they're down, she often has the freedom to leave them down because they're predictable hits thereafter. Most of the pallets in these maps aren't so strong that she has to get rid of them, though different loop height/length matters. Generally I have not seen a lot of Huntresses breaking pallets in 2v8 outside of cleaning up after downs.
Also, 10 more games. One outlier and one cheater match, but largely supporting the same conclusions.
Game 18: Spirit + Deathslinger. 2K and Asylum, but that's irrelevant because someone was cheating. Many caged players that couldn't be interacted with, exit gate that couldn't be interacted with (which is how I died), a survivor inside that exit gate somehow. At one point, got unhooked and healed by someone across the map. Spirit had a stuck unhookable survivor on her shoulder that then extended the EGC indefinitely, forcing the killers to disconnect.
Game 19: Deathslinger + Trapper. 4k. Autohaven. This one kind of hurts my soul because the survivors played so badly and the Deathslinger was cracked, guy was a brilliant shot and his game sense for when to slug, when to cage, and when to pressure a nearby gen was perfect...and gates still got opened and half the team got out. Survs shouldn't have won this game.
Game 20: Deathslinger + Spirit. 5k. Red Forest. Killers played better than survivors, the two were very coordinated and often chased survivors into the other one while still playing separate games, and people went down quickly, but they didn't tunnel and that means gens got done.
Game 21: Deathslinger + Nurse. 1k. Autohaven. Killers got rolled – they coordinated pretty well at the exit gates, using Slinger to reel survivors out and 1-2 tapping them with Nurse, but otherwise just couldn't keep up with the pressure. Lots of double medic spam this game, both in groups of survivors and in chase.
Game 22: Huntress + Spirit. 0k. Asylum. Huntress tried to mass slug at the start but couldn't get enough momentum going and lost all her downs. Survivors seemed genuinely skilled this game, not just the gen speed carrying this time – the killers were skilled and had good macro sense, but survs were doing a lot of cheeky plays in chase and generally lasting a while.
Game 23: Wraith + Blight. 7k. Gates powered, but escape was through hatch. Campbell's Chapel. Wraith spent whole game pressuring cages and tunneling, which wasn't as effective as Billy doing the same, but was enough to shift momentum in their favor so that half the survivors were dead before the fight over the last gen started and they wiped up the remains quickly after that.
Game 24: Blight + Deathslinger. 0k. Coldwind. Killers spent the whole game together, which drastically reduced their map pressure, and slugged several survivors they seemingly forgot to come back to. Got a decent number of downs but just made too many suboptimal plays.
Game 25: Huntress + Deathslinger. 2k. Asylum. Liked to travel together andtag-team survivors for quick downs, but just didn't have enough map pressure – they were a slow duo on top of the usual duo problems.
Game 26: Trapper + Deathslinger. 8K, 1 gen left. Autohaven. This Trapper was a master of the art of “why the ^#@% is a trap here” and I'm embarrassed by the number I stepped into. Didn't tunnel, though 2 survivors were dead at 4 gens and that's likely what allowed pressure to shift. Overall killers just ran a much tighter ship than survivors. 3 Janes :D
Game 27: Wraith + Spirit. 8K, all gens done. Yamaoka. Wraith tunneled a few people out early and prevented uncages the whole game, but it was still a close call.
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My bad I forgot you were talking about 2v8 lol I forgot the tiles are radically different in 2v8 since they’re so many. But In 1v4 you have to break 85-95% of pallets. That also explains why she seems much stronger in 2v8 as well.
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I played 9 killer games yesterday. With the 15 minute queue times and games lasting only 5 minutes i got frustrated.
I played spirit in all 9 games since she's my main killer and im ok with her not the best not the worst. We lost 7 out of those 9 games. In 2 games i got partnered with a " weaker " killer meaning less experienced but other matches my partner was really good, and yet.. we lost. Why we played fair. Playing fair in this mode is not going to give you kills. Even potato survivors are escaping due to fast heals and extremely fast gens.
I played 2 survivor games. i escaped both of them, both of them were landslide wins for the survivor. I got bored since survivor didn't feel fun. It was too easy.
I'm not sure i'm going to play after ive gotten my tome done which is sad since i absolutely loved this mode last time. I love playing killer with someone else and not pull my hair out in 1v4 since. I love sharing the burden with someone else, but the buffs that survivors got went way too overboard and i don't wanna queue 15 minutes into a game and lose in 5. I also don't enjoy tunneling and slugging people. but i feel like thats what has to happen to get wins.
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Popping back in after a few more hours tonight. I don't think I've run into a single killer that I would normally get in my MMR bracket in 1v4. It's reminding me why SBMM exists. Not necessarily saying it should exist in 2v8, but I get why it's needed in 1v4.
The results are what they are, but I'd caution against tweaking the numbers too much. I'm not convinced there's an actual balance issue in this mode. I think the matchmaker is reaaaaally struggling with the queue imbalance.
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It was like that last time too, but my win/loss ratio wasn't nearly as skewed. It was better than it usually is by a longshot, but the games felt less lopsided.
I feel like I've mostly been matched with mid or high tier survivors today, where last time there were far more baby survivors mixed in there (low prestige default survivors with no idea what they're doing.) I haven't seen any of those yet. Everyone at least looked like they've been playing the game for a while, fancy cosmetics, most games didn't involve collapsing potato sacks. There were two killers I thought 'oh no, this is a baby', but the rest were a tossup between below average (making frequent mistakes in chase but still had game sense and decent grasp of their power) and average, with some noticeably skilled players in there. Most of the killers I would say had the technical skill to beat my average survivor team in 1v4, but chasing whoever was in front of them cost them the game. It's difficult to guess whether that's because they didn't know what the winning play was, or because they just didn't feel like sweating.
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I personally think the main issue with this is just the Guide class as a whole. The amount of Generator progression you can get in such a short amount of time is insane and should definitely be adjusted. It also does not help that the Archive Challenges for the Event require you to play the Guide so you see it a lot.
Tho if it were up to me, Id remove the Guide class altogether in favor of an item-based class so it provides incentive to do side objectives (Chests/Totems) to slow the game down and provides interesting interactions with the Killer for people who want that. To me, Guide is just a boring class, even Medic is more interesting since you can bait the Killer into a chase and then heal yourself with the +50% Total Heal Progression ability.
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Killers just can't handle a mode that doesn't handhold them and make it effortless to win, now that the playing field is more even.
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Guide class needs to be nerfed it's way to strong rest are fine.
We need killers with side objectives or a reason to do totems like hex class to help slowdown matches
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Well, I've played a couple more games, mostly as survivor because I got tired of waiting over 20 minutes to play killer, and I got some interesting results:
Only a single match had a "balanced" outcome. 4k and 4e, that is. All of the others were stomps. Either the killers got all 8 or at least 7 survivors, or they didn't get more than 2.
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Mine haven't been stomps, but they've been back and forth too. Killer win, then survivor win, then killer win, etc etc. Three games with 4e and 4k.
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I can't comment on how it feels to play Killer (I'm not waiting in those 20 minute queues!), but I will say I've been able to escape more times in one day of 2 Vs 8 than I might in a whole week of playing regular DBD.
I've definitely noticed a big difference in the skill of my Killers during the day verses those playing late at night. In the day, they seem overall to be much less experienced (or at least less experienced with their choice of Killer) but in the evening the opposite appears to be true, with Killers queuing up to play as their mains. Both tend to result in very one sided affairs, with either an overwhelming Survivor or Killer win.
On the plus side, with the faster gen speeds this time around, I've actually been able to play the role of the scout much more often. I've had fun sneaking around to reveal Killer auras to my teams, doing saves and rebuilding pallets, only soloing the odd gen here and there (Unless you are the Guide class there's little point in doubling or tripling gens, since it's risky to show the Killers exactly where you are).
2 Vs 8 is still very fun, but I'm a little bit worried BHVR might ultimately over complicate what should be a simple arcade style game mode. And I do think they need to do something about these Killer queue times if the mode is to have a future. 20 minutes queues are unsustainable. Maybe it should just find 10 players, ask them to choose their preferred Killer and Survivor role, then assign the Killer role to two random players in the queue.
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Way too many generators are spawning. At the start of a match, it’s common to see 2-3 gens get done quickly because they’re tucked away in a corner, letting 2-3 Guide survivors stack up tokens and speed through 3-5 gens while the Killers are busy chasing the rest of the team. There should be fewer gens on the map so survivors are forced to rotate, which makes it harder to abuse the Guide class since splitting up would be more necessary.
Still, the Guide class needs a nerf, and Killers need some kind of basekit incentive to even things out, like a built-in perk similar to Ruin, Pop, or Discordance. On top of that, survivors have Unbreakable now, making slugging less effective, especially since Hit & Run doesn’t work as well with the inclusion of Medic’s drive-thru healing. If Hit & Run isn’t viable, Killers are stuck chasing, but with all the pallets and strong tiles around, even that’s a struggle for anyone who isn’t Nurse, Blight, or Billy.
I’d also suggest adding two extra generators before the gates can be powered (so 10 total) to act as a buffer for the early-game rush. But that idea would need more thought, as it could mess with some matches if not handled right.
Personally, I'd much rather see this “nerfed” by introducing more fun classes, like a Totem-focused one, a chest-focused one, and so on. Basically, anything that keeps at least a few survivors off gens. Maybe also lower the limit of how many Guides can be in a match. It didn’t even take a full day before that one popular streamer showed off to the whole community how to abuse the Guide class and finish gens in five seconds.
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uh… my impression is that deathslinger is horribly under-tuned in this mode. he's atricious in regular mode so it makes sense for him to be even worse in a mode where maps are 2x the size but i think his games are distortion of the modes balance.
at same time, i am not bothered by each of classes being individually stronger offering a sharp advantage in the game. I think the games are hard because of the global generator speed boost per cage which makes sense considering your data on tunneling & camping cages. most of the games that i have won on slinger were early tag-teams with my companion killer and than i'd just hover around cages entire game because moving around the map was unrewarding as him.
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my early impressions is more towards spreading hooks losing matches more so than guide itself.
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Yeah, gen speeds are awful and everyone knows that. The system that they implemented makes going for fresh hook survivors a stupid decision. In this mode, as it is, the incentive structure is for you to aggressively tunnel survivors out for a better outcome.
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Pretty good shout to be fair...
I managed to get a game as killer with Trapper and I was paired with a cracked Blight who absolutely minced. Admittedly I was running Fearmonger, so I was just locking down 1 half of the map as best as I could, and having any traps/injuries I land making him even more of a beast, but that guy was a man on a mission...
On Survivor I've been kinda baffled by how well I've been doing at looping... like my looping isn't bad, but I'm certainly not amazing, and yet I've been making killers look plain doofy in 2vs8...
I've been wondering if there are simply far more people who don't normally play killer, playing killer in 2vs8... cause the dumb crap I'm getting away with is ridiculous...
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I've played survivor yesterday and killer right now.
Survivor was mostly a stomp, skill of killer and other survivors was all over the place, we lost 2 games and draw maybe 1 but we won 10 games (with kills ranging from 0-3).Killer today has also been a stomp for the surv, we never got more than 3 kills until now. I'm playing my main (Spirit) but she just doesn't seem as strong in this mode with so much going on, survivors healing so fast and maps being so big. Since i don't wanna sweat like in normal mode, i usually go for whoever runs in front of me, but Spirit works better if you focus injured survivors. I'm gonna try out Wraith and see how this works.
EDIT: we just stomped a team, seems like Billy is the way to go for wins, incredibly powerful with his insta downs. Also, tag-teaming seems to be way better than just spreading out on the map
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Ooof.
Well, for all the talk of the mode being "Survivor sided", today has been absolutely brutal so far. Survivors are dropping like flies (mostly because they're getting tag teamed by the ranged / high mobility Killers) and you spend most of the time rescuing teammates from cages and healing up. It's even sweatier than the regular mode for me right now with all the Blights, Billys and Spirits I've been seeing.
My guess is that more casual Killers have already abandoned the mode and to be honest, I don't blame them. Who wants to queue for 15 minutes only to see the gens flying and all 8 out the door?
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted but I think I'm done with the mode for now. Unsurprisingly, getting dunked on by two top tier Killers is not all that much fun.
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Ironic take when survivors gets all the hand holding and now its all been turbo boosted in 2v8.
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Gen speeds have always been crazy even in the regular 1v4 mode.
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They are much crazier in 2v8 considering the survivor/gens they need to complete ratio is smaller and there are zero slowdown perks/add-ons. I do agree that gen speeds are still a problem in 1v4 but this is wayyyyyyy worse.
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Killer queues are still over 10 mins so despite the "genrushing problem", there are not enough survivors.
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It was obvious even before Devs Notes. Watching how we reset 5 health states in 1 seconds makes me laugh so hard, it's super hilarious. Didn't think I see games, where buffed Blight and Nurse isn't enough to deal with survivors, but it's fun anyway.
I personally think survivors abilities should be toned down on third (50>33%) and killer's perk should be buffed, they are barely doing something. But maybe with fact that queue for killers didn't changed at all, I don't mind playing 90% of survivors at all, if it will stay this broken.2 -
Technically it’s better to go for recently hooked survivors because if there are survivors near them their cages won’t move. If you play as Hillbilly, Blight, Wraith, or Huntress you can really exploit this.
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I think this mode should be more casual and survivor sided.
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It won't be long until it's just Billy and Blight zooming across the map searching for cages or survivors recently rescued from them. It's what happened last time once killers caught on to how the cages spawn. Fully expect that to happen again, and as per the earlier post a bit above this, it's looks like it might already be starting to happen. Blight and especially Billy will excel at it.
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I would contest the results as you've recorded them. There were only 3 of the games with 0 survivors killed. So 3 killer stomps and 3 survivor stomps with the remaining matches having mixed results. I think the results are quite reasonable and it is your bias about expectations that is the problem here. The average number of kills in your sample was 3.23 per match or 40.4% of all possible kills. Yeah, it's not the 60% that killers are used to. Also, 17 games is not a huge sample size so I don't know how this compares to the player base at large.
But for a game mode that has a huge problem with too many players wanting to play killer and not enough playing as survivor this seems more than fair. We actively do not want more people playing as killer. If anything, Billy, Blight, Spirit and Huntress should all get nerfed and base kit unbreakable should be added in future versions. Get that kill ratio down to about 30% and maybe the queue times won't be so screwed up. Or maybe the answer is to make it 2 v 6 but give the survivors 4 health states. Either way, I'm sick of the queue times.
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These were my stats from my stream yesterday. One game 2 people hid in lockers all game an weren't helping others an we still managed to do 6 gens. Another game one dude had like 400 points so i presume he gave up. The last game could of been a 6 or 7 man out but 2 people stayed to try an help 1 person. As long as people are trying even if people go down almost instantly most games every gen was completed with an average of 3 gens being done within 60 seconds of the game. Lowest number of gens completed was 6 with the most common result being 8 gens completed.
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I strongly disagree. Nobody would reasonably consider a 1k a draw as a killer, and that's basically what a 2k is in this context.
In most of those 2k scenarios, the deaths occurred by people getting caught at the endgame. You can't rescue against two killers teamed up, and two killers are very effective at pushing people out gates and denying altruism. A few survivors being unable to be rescued in endgame does not mean the killers didn't get destroyed that game.
I also cannot agree with your proposal or reasoning on further killer nerfs and survivor buffs. Killer queues are high because 2v8 offers killers unique and long sought-after gameplay, the ability to KWF. A big part of the reason survivor population manages the 4x necessary for game balance despite being the weaker role is because the ability to play with friends was formerly exclusive to it. You would have to contort the game into something virtually unplayable for killers before that stopped appealing more than survivor gameplay, which is basically the same but faster paced and with a few neat active abilities.
Please understand that the shape of the buffs survivors have received encourage killers to tunnel them. Some might look at it as survivors finally getting to have fun after spending years suffering in solo queue. It will be… for a few days. But then every killer who's casual will have either given up or hardened up, and the remainder will be playing as scummy as possible, and then the mode will be a cesspool for everyone. This is what concerns me about this game design. It punishes the casual gameplay that made 2v8 fun last time and pushes sweaty meta. Unbreakable doesn't help this, it only encourages the problem further. You would have to give survivors powerful tunnel protection to kill the meta strat, like OTR + Shoulder The Burden, as tunneling is historically harder to effectively punish than camping or slugging.
I wholeheartedly agree with Deathslinger being undertuned? I don't think I said anywhere that he was strong. I faced a few good Deathslingers but as a character he needs buffs, he's too slow and bad at pressuring multiple survivors.
Part of the problem is that survivors become stronger once single-hooked - the unlocked Guide ability starts making gens fly even harder, which means you kind of have to focus Guides out once you get a hook on them or they spiral out of control. And I still hold to the pallet reset being problematic for punishing the weak killers more than it punishes the strong ones.
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Let's please not turn this into a killer versus survivor thread. Most of us play both sides extensively and have a vested interest in game health on both ends, that isn't the point, and while I'm happy to blame the players for picking scummy strats when they have all the choice in the world and choose violence... right now, there's some objectively bad game design in play.
Survivors right now have very strong gen speeds without especially trying, and also fast and cheap health states. Killers are punished in two directions for not tunneling – passive gen speeds increase the more hooks get done, and survivors unlock powerful abilities that make them even more dangerous to leave around (one of which directly adds 5/10/15% to the next gen survivors touch, regardless of gen speeds!)
So it's inevitable that in this environment, killers are going to lose, they're going to get BMed, and they're going to stop playing casual and start tunneling. And to tunnel in 2v8, you need the high mobility killers. Hence all the Wraiths, Billies, and Blights playing hardball and creating utterly miserable matches.
This is primarily BHVR's fault for not foreseeing how the gameplay elements they added interact with each other. Not only did they introduce elements that are best countered by tunneling, they also introduced elements that punish the killer for spreading hooks and playing in the way that survivors like. The former part means that every killer who plays hard and mean would be doing it anyway, because those players stack every advantage they can. But the latter part means that people who want to play casual are also going to start doing it because they don't feel like they have a choice.
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Personally, I think BHVR should aim for a 50% win rate on average for both sides, with most trials seeing half dead and half escape. For a fun, fast paced quick hit of DBD, I think that would be the healthiest approach for the mode. How they get there I couldn't tell you, but overall I think the first iteration will probably turn out to have been more balanced than this new one.
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He has lack of lethality in the mode.
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Slugging is not viable in the mode due to basekit unbreak & the fact you can hop in lockers to force a hook
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He has a pretty bad bug and needs more Harpoon range id say right now hes just support slinger mostly
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This mode exactly points out why we cannot have a 50% winrate on average both sides. This feels as bad as back when we DID have that. It's never going back to 50%. We all need to let that go. :(
This mode this time around is too Survivor-sided, and it didn't need to be. All they should have touched was the stomp to hook thing and being able to flashlight save, my games unironically felt better first time around than here. The rest needed no changes. We did not need Killer classes. We didn't need the buffs to be this strong. Rebuilding pallets as Scout is too strong when there's this many; Guide outclasses and overrides the comeback mechanic and should not be there at all. And there is nothing the Killers can do except tunnel people out with highly mobile Killers when Survs can bring FOUR Guides at once and stack on gen clusters this hard.
Survivors are overbuffed, and Killers have been given weird nerfs like only seeing so many gens in one radius for no reason. If this is how they are testing new concepts or ideas, they are failures, never come back to them again.
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Piggy is here to help 🔥🐽 🔥
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