Why is nurse allowed to be broken?
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Why is her kill rate so low then?
Several reasons:
- free character, meaning that inexperienced players have instantly access to her. Plus the fact that Nurse does not really play DBD; so everything a new player could have learned on Trapper or Wraith will not be transferable to Nurse (unlike for example Billy, who is also not that easy to learn, but can be played as a pure M1-Killer)
- steep learning curve - as said before, it takes a bit of time to get used to her and all those games contribute to her low killrate.
- console players - probably not a big influence, but you can expect many games on console lower her killrate, because she is hard to play on console. And this over all skill levels, a beginner will do even worse on Console compared to PC. And even a good Nurse on Console will most likely be less good than a good Nurse on PC due to the hardware.
- People dont just play to win but to have fun - if you dont just play the Killer which wins you the most games, you will probably not play Nurse all the time. So even if players are good with Nurse, the amount of those players who rather play other Killers is high. Meaning there are less people to increase her Killrate. You dont see popular content creators play Nurse that much, because it is not really exciting. E.g. if you ask me, I would not say that Nurse is my favorite Killer, but probably the Killer I get the best results in. I would rather play Billy over Nurse all the time. Or even some B- or C-Tier Killers, since they are more exciting to play. So the killrate of other Killers is more influenced by good Killer Mains than the killrate of Nurse.
Just saying that her Killrate is low, so Nurse is not busted is just way too easy and wrong thinking. With every other Killer reasons are found or made up why the Killrate cannot be that high, but with Nurse the raw numbers are fact and Nurse is weak because of that.
That every Content Creator who creates a Tier List puts Nurse at the Top and declares her the best Killer is meaningless apparently - even if there is not even any discussion or reasoning given at this point like with other Killers, where you can argue if for example Billy or Blight are better or if Ghostface is better than Sadako or other things like that. The reason why Nurse is always labelled as the best is simply "It is Nurse" and if it is THAT easy, there is a reason for it.
But yeah, the kiLlrAtE.
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I never said that she wasn't a strong killer or that having the lowest kill rate means she's the weakest killer.
We're all well aware Nurse is at the top.
The point is her place at the top is deserved, it's warranted BECAUSE of her learning curve and because of her kill rate.
That doesn't mean she's busted and broken, it means she's supposed to be strong.
She's far from impossible to deal with, which is made apparent due to her low kill rate. She requires a different approach, both to play as and play against. That's what most people don't appreciate.
There is absolutely no way you can nerf her enough to bring her in line with other killers without also making her a complete joke with a 1% kill rate.
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She might have got more nerfs than any other killer
except Pig, so that part about her is already a lie. And I've seen some people (including top comp players) argue that Blight and Billy are better or at least on par with Nurse now that her mobility and map pressure is mathematically weaker than theirs, so at the top level she even lost her aura of the undoubtedly best killer in the game cause of the multiple nerfs she received (so saying that these nerfs were just a slap on the wrist is again, a lie).1 -
Nurse is god like when you have a player that has dedicated time to perfect her. Skill has to be rewarded. A normal nurse is not that bad.
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´´just´´ is a interesting word, being unable to use most perks on her blink was really good
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That sounds more like a single player game.
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Nurse is at the tip top as far as potential goes that's not even an argument, but in practice not everyone can tap into to that potential this is not an excuse. I think if they took away the lunge extend addon, made her 4.4 with one blink, and unable to blink between floors, and through walls she'd be fine.
I mean honestly from my 1000 hours of nurse I learned one thing for sure, most survivors refuse to learn her kit and how to effectively loop her, they still camp pallets, still wait at check spots, path the exact same way even though she's downed them however many times etc. the most cracked survivors that I managed to run across all either mained her at one point or labbed to be able to know how to loop her confidently.
While she does need nerfs, she isn't entirely uncounterableb as many seem to think. Yes anyone with over 1k hours on nurse alone will cook most teams, the same is true for all s-b tier killers as far as win rate goes.
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It sounds similar to a stacked swf, doesn’t it?
You can’t tap into that realm without bypassing game mechanics and using outside communications to call out which Killer it is, where they are at all times, when you’re about to go down to set up a pallet or flashlight save, where a lot totem is and when to body block, when the game isn’t balanced around it. And Killers who are unlucky enough to face them should just accept they got the short end of the stick and that’s that, right?
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Literally what I was about to write.
I think the only reason why she stays as she is – there is a need to be something as broken as SWF for killers.3 -
Yup, this is my thinking.
Only, I wouldn’t consider either broken as long as MMR works as it’s supposed to and matches the sweaty Nurses vs sweaty SWF. I’ve never had issues with Nurses in my MMR range (except when MMR is bad and mismatches us). My biggest issue is when a teammate gives up and just stops trying.1 -
Yep, one of my most memorable match against Nurse was where Mikaela instantly gave up on hook and we with 2 other amazing teammates did 5 gens. And Nurse wasn't even bad, we just were slightly better. Sadly only me escaped, because she snowballed it in endgame, but imagine we had 4 survivors from the start and not 3.
I do think Nurse is broken in right hands and needs nerfs, but not before SWF nerfs. Because 8 out of 10 Nurses I went against are more than winable. And if someone want to balance something around best players on one side, don't even start with this classic hypocrite bullshit that "not every swf is coordinated god players". Not every Nurse either, but yeah, it works only in one side as always.0 -
Everytime this thread comes up, i ask a simple question. Should the game be balanced around top tier players, or average level players?
In my opinion, multiplayer games should always be balanced around what the highest level players are capable of doing, while still making sure the game is fun for the average skill players. This is where you rework things that are bad in competitive play, but are complete "noob stompers" such as when LoL did that to champions like Xin Xhao, at one point, who was stomping pub games, but pretty bad in tournament play. Or the reverse, where something is really good in competitive play, but super hard to play so in low skill games it has a horrible win rate. That way the game is inherently balanced, and it gives players something to strive for that is valuable.
For some reason, the DBD community seems to think that you should balance this game around average skilled players. I disagree with that, but thus, i give you the stats.
The last official stats released:
They put nurse at a 55% kill rate at 3rd from the bottom. Keep in mind that the stats are slightly deflated for doctor due to the "afk doctor" epidemic that was going on in some regions, and hillbilly changes had just barely gone live, and didn't include the removal of the overheat yet. Additionally, nearly every single time they release data, the nurse is the bottom of the list in terms of kill rate, usually far below the desired "60% kill rate" mark and making her by far the "worst killer in the game"
Even looking at the unofficial stats on nightlight, shows her having a 57% kill rate, not too far off that 55% kill rate the official stats put her at and killers like:
- lich
- pinhead
- sadako
- blight
- twins
- hag
- plague
- pig (yes pig)
- wraith
- freddy (yes freddy)
- leatherface
- oni
- chucky
- nemesis
- doctor
- dracula
- billy
- wesker
- dredge (yes dredge)
All have a higher kill rate than her. In fact, the unofficial stats put her only slight above the average 56.83% kill rate of all killers.
So i ask you again. Should games be balanced around what the most skilled players in the game are capable of? Or should they be balanced around the average player? When you look at the most skilled players in the world, generally you'll see that, assuming no outside rules like perk restrictions, or scoring systems, or any other things that the "comp scene" tries to put in place to balance the game, pretty much the only viable killers at that level, are nurse, spirit, and maybe blight (although i'm not sure since the removal of hug tech).
So, if we were to balance around the highest skilled players in the game, the survivors need massive massive nerfs, or almost every killer needs massive massive buffs in order to compete. Then, if that is the case THEN nurse can be nerfed.
But if the philosophy is that we balance the game around the "Average" players"? Well, then based on that, looking at official stats from BHVR, shows that nurse is in dire need of BUFFS to bring her more in line with the super strong killers like… freddy…. and pig….
And the unofficial stats show her as the shining beacon of design and balance for what this game should be balanced around, a perfectly "average" killer.
Keep in mind i say these things as a player who:
- Has 4k hours
- Is a nurse main
- Literally cannot remember the last time i lost a game as nurse (i do draw on rare occasion)
- Thinks nurse should be nerfed
- Thinks that survivors as a whole need to have their "power" toned down significantly, mostly in terms of nerfing loops and not increasing gen times
- If anything i think gens should be shorter
So one last time, i ask you, should this game be balanced around high skill players, or average skill players?
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Nurse is a free killer and is the strongest killer in game.
As long as she stays this way the game will never be pay to win. So this probably will never change.
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The answer is neither.
It has always been the answer.
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What you described in the first paragraph is essentially Chucky but without stealth, third camera or short size.
Post edited by Jock21 on1 -
Because her kill rate still isn't as high as the others, because she is not as easy to play.
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For the majority of people that play this game, as seen by released stats 3 TIMES now being one of the lowest kill rates:
Nurse is not OP
For those who are capable though?
Shes beyond what any other killer can do, and is OP.
So good luck as a developer trying to please anyone in this scenario. They put themselves in this position.0 -
Just jump scare her 😆
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Most players quit halfway (and play her occasionaly again). Most players dont bother even learning. Most players are bad no matter the character. Choose whatever reason you want.
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It doesnt even matter if she has been nerfed a thousand times or just once if she is still the most OP killer.
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I got a theory that it's because of how weak most killers really are, so they keep her like that as a sort of fail safe, rather than, you know, putting the work in and buffing other killers.
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I CANT with you LOL!
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So are you saying she's not difficult to play? Is that based on your own personal experience?
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Her pickrate is low because not everyone finds nurse fun to play as nor is everyone looking to play killers that are very strong. This was a horrible "gotcha" question.
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Ive stated previously that nurse should not be allowed to phase through objects. She can be balanced around that fact in a lot of ways. The backlash came from people saying it would change what makes nurse special and that she was fine. Well if the community thinks nurse being broken and unfair is what makes her "special" and that's "fine" then ######### if I know anything.
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Nurse is the most powerful killer in the game. But:
• She is hard to play due to her unique playstyle, which is impossible to translate to one of a normal killer.
• Almost everything that could have been nerfed, is already nerfed.
• You can't really rework her without it either having no impact or destroying her.
• She is a motion sickness nightmare.
• If survivors know what they're doing, they can outplay her.
• She is the only argument against the P2W accusations.
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She is at least not as difficult to play as people claim her to be. Sure, learning her is hard, but actually playing her after learned… There are other Killers who are harder to play after learning them.
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Show us your winstreak with no perks no addons. That would be easy right ?
Thanks.
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Why exactly should I do that? First of all, if I do that, you will simply say I go against low MMR-Survivors.
And second, why should I limit myself in that way while others are not doing that?
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Nurse is hard to change because of how different she is from the rest of the cast. In the early days, it didn't really make a lot of sense to give her a from the ground up rework when it was only really stuff like 8 blinks that was obscenely OP, especially since this was the era of completely insane items, perks, and offerings.
Afterwards, Nurse got steadily adjusted to being the top, but a somewhat manageable version of it. Her add-ons got gotten, weird quirks smoothed out, mechanics like Lightburn got tossed. Generally speaking, unless they give her a full rework, the only real change I see appropriate to her current design is putting blindness on auras when readying a blink, so as to keep her from confirming hit after hit.
She's in a weird place where giving her a sizeable nerf will make her feel awful and ruin what already frankly boring gameplay she has, but keeping her as is simply too much to ask of most survivors.
Some in the thread have mentioned that survivors need to simply learn her instead of complaining, but I'd argue she's so different to face and there's so much less agency in facing her that it's honestly unreasonable to expect most players just casually develop the skills to face this one extremely difficult killer that most of the time is being played by Potatoes but in the hands of someone trained can turn most matches on their head.
Nurse having such an abysmal killrate isn't normal, and it isn't indicative of her strength, it's simply proof that she's a bad design for the game in its current state imo
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Nurse remains broken because the only way to effectively unbreak her is by totally scrapping her power and replacing it with something entirely different.
And that is a lot of work, and would leave all Nurse mains kind of disenfranchised. So we're stuck with her, for better or worse.
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As a Nurse main; I agree.
There is nothing, and I'm speaking as someone who main her, there is nothing you can do against a good nurse; and don't even bring in aura reading perks.
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But that doesn't excuse it neither; "well yeah she's broken but only by the top 5 players who know how to play her!" LOL broken is broken. I just feel nothing in game helps against her, pallets = easy hit, flash light doesn't burn anymore, most perks don't affect her such as sprint burst/dead hard/etc.
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If a killer is strong, it is regardless of addons. Ex : Blight. I can easily stomp with this killer.
Now without perks so you don’t get carried by them. If a killer is very strong, you don’t need them to win consistently.
I trust you to not do this win streak with a low MMR account on her.
As for why : I think people should back up their claims, especially when they claim something is broken / overpowered and should be nerfed. Plus, you said she is easy to play.
If I were to claim some survivor perk is absolutely broken I would demonstrate it first. Why is it for this particularly killer you don’t want to ?2 -
There is nothing you can do against any good killer, except making the chase as long as possible (same with Nurse).
Killers should not be loopable for 5 gens.
Ex : Singularity. Anyone decent with it will catch you and there is "nothing" you can do to prevent it.3 -
Do you remember when I got Wraith at Cowtree? Lol
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You break line of sight and dodge her blinks. Most Nurses are more than manageable so long as you learn how to feint your pathing and bait her blinks the wrong way, allowing you to extend chases as long as any other killer. Not unlike Blight.
The only time Nurse is broken is when she's stacked with aura perks and ambushes you without warning through a wall. But that can also apply to Wraith, Sadako, Artist, Pyramid Head, Dracula, Vecna and Mirror Myers.
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let’s see you do it too
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You break line of sight and dodge her blinks. Most Nurses are more than manageable so long as you learn how to feint your pathing and bait her blinks the wrong way, allowing you to extend chases as long as any other killer. Not unlike Blight.
Literally it doesn't matter because whatever you do after you lose line of sight, she still manages to hit you because she can rotate 360 degrees after blink and has insane lunge on top of that.
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She’s a product of 2016 DBD and was the answer to infinites in the game at the time. She’s been grandmothered in so they aren’t gonna spend resources changing a free killer that’s entire power would have to be reworked because there’s no money to be made that way.
She is hard to pick up and play and most casual people will play her a few times, get destroyed, then never touch her again. She has a low kill rate, isn’t nearly as busted as she once was, and people rarely play her to her fullest potential. That’s why she’s in the state she’s in.
Yes she is the strongest killer in the game and will most likely continue to be that way because of when she was created and her fundamentally flawed power. Might as well just accept it, the rest of us have. It’s just how Nurse is.3 -
^This. It is what it is until the devs decide to make the tough decision to completely rework her entire kit and essentially repackage her into a new killer…but that would take time, money, resources, and would more than likely be faced with a degree of backlash from the community. Until they decide to cross that bridge then might as well just accept it.
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She's not hard.
There are a ton of killers that are a lot harder to play. Performing well with nurse comes down to game knowledge and a bit of muscle memory. Mastering nurse is something entirely different.
A decent nurse, however, wins a majority of public matches. Mastering her is, based off of my experience, not necessary outside of a comp. setting.
Her design is outdated and should change completely for the game to prosper.
She has proven time and time again to be a problem, but rather than taking the time to fix this, bhvr chooses to balance the game around her, ignoring the problem.
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If they nerf her you'll likely call for spirit nerfs next or artist. Let killers be powerful. There are 4 survivors all sharing the same objective with 1 killer
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She easily the most difficult killer to get into and learn to play because you’re playing an entirely different game that ties directly to muscle memory. Most players will not stick to Nurse because of her steep learning curve. Your skill as every other killer doesn’t transfer to Nurse.
Now if you do stick to her and learn that muscle memory and what you can and cannot blink through then it’s smooth sailing. She’s by far the easiest killer to perform well with against most teams. She’s not mechanically difficult but you cannot deny that she’s harder for the casual player than most of the killer roster.
But the argument of “this killer isn’t hard” is will vary from person to person because if you practice ANY killer then you will eventually become good with them, it just takes time. Like with me personally, I think Singularity is very overblown when it comes to how hard he is, I think he’s pretty simple to play and not as hard as people make him out to be but I cannot get the hang of Wesker. It’s like I’m learning trigonometry when playing him.
TL:DR; Nurse is hard for most of the player-base and most people will not perform well with her
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Like it or not, Nurse has her dedicated players and she’s an iconic figure in DBD. We’re so far into DBD’s life cycle that’s it’s like a “why bother” situation.
Whenever I face a Nurse and she destroys my team I’m just like “just another Nurse match. Classic” and I go next. She’s been here for almost a decade so I just accept it
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In terms of raw power it seems that Nurse is at the top with Survivors right below her, then all the other Killers come after those two.
She’s probably “broken” so that the game doesn’t definitively become Survivor sided.
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Ok… Have you played Pinhead? His chain works the exact same way. Just saying.
I play one game of Nurse after playing her not for multiple months and do poorly. Then atfer 3 games, I dominate survivors with okish builds. This is not because im insanely good at games, but because ive played a LOT of killer and know survivor pathing and map layouts like the back of my hand. If you know all that, nurse becomes a monster. Again, im not talking about mastering her. Only about performing well with her. Most survivors in public lobbies make a lot of mistakes and are not great my any means. Therefore you dont need much to beat them. Nurse feels overkill for most public matches. Its why I limit myself when I play her. "No aura, no slowdown" or "only allowed to use 2 blinks after a hook".
Nurse is not hard at all. Shes as close to a dbd-win button as it gets. Does that mean, that your wrong? No. Absolutely not. A majority of dbd´s playerbase sucks at her. Just like a majority of the players in Dark Souls 3 have not beaten the Nameless King. Most people play games for shorter amounts of time and dont want to invest that much into one aspect. Nurse is no different. The general player probably picks her up, plays a few rounds and dropps her because they lack the knowledge that is needed to make her the power house that she is. Then they play trapper until they get stomped and switch the game. Most people dont stick THAT long to one game as we insane people here on the forums do. Steam achievents are proof of that.
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You monster 🤣
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I'm loving this way toooo much 😆
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Nurse isn't as broken as people often make her out to be, nor does she "ignore the game's mechanics" as is frequently claimed. She simply plays differently and, as such, has a unique form of counterplay. Contrary to popular belief, she doesn't render pallets or windows useless, and her map control has been significantly weakened after all the blink range nerfs.
Yes, she's consistently ranked in the top tier on every tier list, but that's due to her potential performance, which is a far cry from what you typically see from the average pub Nurse.
Will you rarely come across a cracked Nurse who effortlessly shreds your attempts at a bully squad? Probably. But this is true for other strong Killers as well, like Blight, Billy, Spirit, etc. It's simply a consequence of having killers with such a high skill ceiling. This is actually positive for the game, as it rewards players for investing the time and effort to master a character. The only problem here is that the MMR system doesn't function properly, so matches often aren't balanced.
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