New found respect for survivor mains after playing solely killer
I’m a killer main and have been forever but I decided to play some more survivor a while back since when June comes I want to get chased by spring trap without totally sucking. Some of the unfun stuff survivors got to deal with suck. Getting slugged at 5 gens with knock out, being the 1st one to get tunneled/camped, playing against nurse who brought a midwhich offering, solo q etc. I was playing killer today and went to a survivor I just beat stream on twitch I left it on for a little while I was reading something and their (they were a 4 man swf) next game was a singularity using otzdravas slugging build from his video and it was miserable to watch. They were so annoyed waiting to get bleedout but their next game after that was a scratch mirror myers game on midwhich which they enjoyed. As killer I never get denied fun even my worst games I don’t but survivors are almost gambling to hope the killer doesn’t make the game miserable for them. Anyway I respect the crap survivors have to go through without them there is no game afterall.
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How did the 4xSWF rate your match verse the ones after?
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I’ve been playing since 2017 and I’ve been a solo queue player for just over 2 years now and it’s never been worse. Survivors giving up on hook almost every game, disconnecting or just going AFK. Killers refusing to hook or waiting for you to be 99% bled out and then hooking. Hard tunnelling at 5 gens etc etc. I can still enjoy the game, otherwise I wouldn’t play anymore, but it definitely tests my patience more than it used to. I got slugged the other day because I was with a 3-man sabo squad and the killer assumed we were a 4-man and because they were a TTV I asked them why they refused to hook me and they cussed me out but then eventually apologised when they realised I wasn’t with the other survivors and legitimately didn’t realise what they were doing as they were on the complete opposite side of the map to me. I don’t know why, but everybody just seems really angry at the moment. Tunnelling can be a strategy and I understand why it’s happening during some of my games, but I had a Wraith the other night bring Knockout and Third Seal and slug the entire team. It also wasn’t easy to avoid being slugged when you’re playing with randoms and have no way of knowing where they got downed. He brought us to Midwich and had Undying and Thrill with the All Seeing add-on as well, so even trying to cleanse the totem proved troublesome. The match ended with us all being bled out. Where is the strategy? You can’t tell me that Wraith wasn’t deliberately trying to annoy us. It’s just felt so brutal recently.
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I convinced my buddy to play the game again after he stopped playing for two years and the first two matches we got were knockout slugs at 5 gens...
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You should never just play one side. I fully believe if you only play one side then you have absolutely no room to make any remarks on balance in this game. Sometimes I’ll complain about a survivor perk and call it “brain dead and ez mode” and then I switch to survivor and realize that that’s not actually the case and I was wrong.
Like when Huntress was getting her buffs and people said it was brutally overpowered and unbeatable and I asked how much they played the PTB buffed version of her or played against her and they said they didn’t do either and yet they made posts calling for nerfs 🤦♂️
Too many people only play one side and don’t see the other sides point of view and it’s what’s crippling this game honestly. I would slug all the time too before I started playing survivor more and realized how lame and boring it was. Now I only slug toxic survivors but even then I barely do that because it’s so boring for me too.
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This has increased in the past few days. But no surprise, a popular content creator made a video about slugging Singularity and guess what every Singularity I faced was running and doing…
(In general, Knockout has no reason to exist like it does. It is used for griefing and 4 man-slugging and on top of it it is way stronger against Solos than SWF…)
And stuff like this is also why I just cannot recommend the game to a friend anymore. My SWF-Mate and myself are already getting frustrated by playing the game and I really cannot put a friend of mine through this. I mean, how do you want to explain it anyway? It is not even the fact that you cannot win every game, which is totally fine - you can just say "Its fine to lose in DBD, because you can still have a lot of fun". It is HOW you lose. If I would bring a friend of mine to play DBD; they probably would be tunneled or slugged in their first few games and they would never touch the game again.
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You are absolutely correct. I have been playing this game pretty much since the beginning. Had a friend over a few weeks ago and he was looking at what games I had installed on my playstation.
A few days later he tells me he had bought DBD. He said he had planned to get a little experience and then surprise me with us playing together. He said he tried survivor first and it was completely unenjoyable because nearly every game he played the killer was either slugging, camping, or tunneling. He decided to play killer and said after a few matches of that he realized why nearly every killer slugs, camps, and tunnels. His basic takeaway was he had 4 options:
1) play survivor and have a miserable experience most games
2) play killer knowing the only way to have consistent success is be the person making it miserable for everyone else
3) play killer without making it miserable for everyone else and never win
4) not play
He chose option 4. He said survivor was simply too miserable. At the same time he wasn't going to subject the survivors he played against to that kind of misery just to win some games.
It made me think. I can completely see how someone new to this game would have exactly that opinion. If I am being honest I believe I would feel exactly the same way if I was just picking this game up today. Slugging, camping, and tunneling may not be implicitly encouraged, but the current state of the game makes it to where those things are indirectly encouraged as they are by far not only the most effective way to be successful as a killer, but they are the easiest way.
Note: I am not criticizing killers for doing any of those things. I understand they are perfectly within the rules, and in the current state of the game they are practically necessary. My only criticism is the fact that BHVR has created a system that actively, albeit indirectly, encourages killers to play that way.5 -
I read the rest, by you lost me at "tunneling at 5 gens." It tells me what your caliber of team is, which is giving out several hooks before a single gen has been done, when at least 2 should be done after the 1st chase. It also tells me that you don't realize that such a result can only come as a result of survivors looping bad/being inefficient on gens. Instead, you assume that it's all the killer, and all the OP stuff he can supposedly do. Shocking, from someone who's played killer and SWF for 7 years. I get that there's killers who just destroy teams and then abuse that position to be toxic. But aren't those killers just getting lucky? Of all the killer matches you've played, surely you've never had it that easy? So I think you need to look at the real problem: matchmaking. MMR, as it functions now, sort of orchestrates matches. It forces mismatches to hide the imbalance of the game. In reality, when both sides play well, survivors beat killer 9/10 times. But in your average solo match you never see it, because either you're a good survivor and you get dragged down by bad teammates, or you and your teammates are bad, and get forced into a game with a good killer anyway. So I don't like to push stereotypes, but all those toxic Wraiths (it's always him who they play), they act that way because they hardly ever win. They're angry, because the moment they get put against decent survivor teams, loss after loss. That's the experience of most killers. These guys just choose to take it out on other people.
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I think no matter what BHVR does slugging, camping, and tunneling will remain META strategies. When survivors were at their weakest and killers had the strongest regression in the game and games took 40 minutes, killers still camped, tunneled, and slugged. It doesn’t matter how strong or weak survivors/killers are there will always be camping, tunneling, and slugging because it makes the game easier for one side.
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To be fair, friend, those strategies were not this extreme in the past.
That doesn't mean people didn't camp, tunnel or slug in the past, because they did. But generally speaking you could expect a killer to play for 12 hooks, or prioritizing BBQ stacks over actually killing survivors.
I think it is possible to return to that state of the game.
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Behavior could fix it if they chose. Remove the 1 time per match use of unbreakable. Make hooks all work like pyramid heads' do. There i fixed camping and slugging. Want to bet I couldn't fix tunnelling? Decisive strike is basekit and useable every time after an unhook and make the stun last 10 seconds.
Now the real question is how do you fix those bad behaviors without ruining the game balance the other way. Well that is a different issue entirely, and might actually require some big brain game designers to experiment a little.
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On Saturday, my internet was laggy and playing survivor was depressing. So I went full nice killer (Bing Bong) with just BP farming perks, dropping people at the closest generator like “Come get your Dwight and do this generator,” or letting them wiggle off if their team was ignoring them. Sure, not everyone liked it, but most survivors were cool with it and the game in general was a lot more fun once they caught on I wasn’t trying to win. Gave everyone some good chase time, let them drop pallets on me, hook them if they ask for it, some people would even suicide after I opened the gate, insisting I deserved a kill. If someone was better than me, I got practice, and they got practice if I was better than them. No matter what, I’m still getting 25k BP from the first three categories, and they usually got more than me plus their queue bonus.
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This.
This is ultimately the problem. Too many people not actually playing both sides equally enough to see the real, serious issues the game has and why NEITHER side is fully braindead EZ mode as so many claim. It's a self-report if you say one side is EZ mode, though I will say I think SOME perks on both sides do encourage bad playstyles and braindead play. Knockout and WoO, for example, can become crutches.
And this whole problem is exactly why I don't BM as either side, I just leave, I don't teabag. And, even though it's inefficient, I almost never slug (at least not to bleed out, for pressure is a different case and situational), I try very hard not to tunnel unless a situation calls for it and certainly not from the word go, I don't hardcore camp unless I am punishing extreme altruism, and I try my damndest to spread out hooks. I might use these to win if I have to, but I don't ever start this #### at 5 gens. I don't immediately go hardball from the start, and I certainly don't do it with malice or on purpose if it happens that I DO need to do these things. It's also why I sometimes give hatch, show mercy, etc. I don't need the Mori, I don't need to hardcore win every. Single. Game. And I sure as hell don't need to make the game miserable, as Killer OR Survivor, for anyone else. I just wish BHVR incentivized MY playstyle, too.Now, if you come in to make ME miserable, then yes. You get exactly what you give. I'm nice, that doesn't mean I won't match your energy.
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This is a party game with MMR. It's par for the course.
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Had a twins that did the famous knock out and not hooking people at 5 gens yesterday and this was on solo q so nothing could be done.
Ofc my team and I was disgusted and called them out and they make 1million excuse and pathetic gg ez use expo use soul guard use wglf(the same thing that already got gutted back after 1 week after its buff cause killers wah wah wah get wgood etc( and this is on hawkins the most garbage indoor killer sided map like midwitch so its not as if juking victor was possible.
Am sure they the same pathetic trashcan though who cry swf bully or survivor dc and gave me 4 bots post which occur to me why I and those guys didnt as I wouldnt blame them I guess like me those three dont dc for everything as 45 seconds would not be bad
So help me god if I see that person as survivor or killer cause karma is a ######### all that for 10k points and when you see their steam its all negative comments. Some people really just have no ambition.
Post edited by buggybug on2 -
I genuinely don't understand people who play Twins that way, why wouldn't you just go for fun cool snipes with Victor or something?
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Idk but then they wonder why people give them the skull merchant 4 bot treatment.
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When people say "tunnel at 5 gens" they mean "actively play with intent to tunnel from the beginning of the game." It has nothing to do with when the first survivor dies and everything to do with the killer's attitude when the cinematic load-in shot plays.
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To be honest, I have made lots of posts and comments on this topic and I tried to catch myself and refrain from repeating myself too much because it can sound like negativity.
As someone who has many killer main friends and I include many people on this forum as such, I would not want to disrespect them by making blanket statements or appearing to be just a bias survivor main.However, my observation is that voices are important. So when there is a large number of people who have an issue or opinion on something, it has to be looked at beyond our personal preference.
Despite all the arguments in favour of retaining slugging and tunnelling as a basekit strategy regardless of any other perk or strategy to ‘minimise’ or ‘delay’ it, I honestly find it the most unhealthy thing in the game.Not only does it allow for removing agency from one side, it is causing an increasing hostility between the two sides (in general) and feeds into the spiralling toxicity.
I absolutely want to caveat this by saying I have heard and in many cases understand the arguments for allowing slugging and tunnelling. In no way do I want to invalidate or discredit the reasons why. So as many changes as it takes to appease the need for this - and I understand it’s not simple but I have seen many many people suggest great ideas on the forums.
The sad thing is that there are many amazing people I know (and I’m talking dozens - for context, I run a DBD server on discord with circa 150+ players, all casual) who have stopped playing. It’s sad that the game has lost some truly wholesome people.
If the game is going to be purely balanced and left for the highest MMR - and it seems the forum has a higher proportion of high MMR people so my voice is possibly representing the minority here - then the game will spiral into the best versus the best only. For some, you might just say “well that’s how it should be” - but that will surely be exhausting for you in the long run and saddening for casuals or less talented players like me if my participation will be reduced to fodder and a liability for other more skilful teammates.
I cannot stress how important it is to look past pure partisanship and consider the good of the game overall. I like the game and I like the community - including all of you here. I care not a jot about ‘winning arguments’, this is not meant to be a confrontational comment, but an urge for seeking a healthy ground for the game and the people that play it.
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I didn't assume anything? I know that if somebody is being hooked whilst 5 gens are up that they either got unlucky during their first chase or aren't a strong looper and I never claimed or assumed this was because of the killer and the OP stuff they can do. YOU said that, not me lol. I was listing reasons why I don't enjoy solo queue and my teammates being hard tunnelled at 5 gens is one of those reasons. If I was playing with a SWF, it wouldn't be as much of an issue as I know the people I used to play with could crank out generators whilst the killer focused somebody out of the game, but I'll have somebody being hard tunnelled whilst another survivor chases after them trying to flashlight save and another searches chests. You're right that this is a matchmaking issue, but it's still especially frustrating when you're playing solo. I even sometimes go against killers I definitely shouldn't be facing and I can tell the match must be frustrating for them.
Like I said, I can still enjoy this game but I definitely don't play it as much as I used to and I don't find playing survivor as fun as it once was. Nowadays it's rare for me to have matches without somebody giving up on their first hook. It's almost became the norm and it leaves you feeling burnt out.0 -
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