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How about those who are complaining finally start using anti-totem perks?
That's what they're there for
First Genregress, than camping, than tunneling, now Totems. What's next? DS DH Windows combos are boring and if time is such a big problem for you, why do you play at all?
IT IS WHAT IT IS..... change my mind
Comments
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I've been using anti-totem perks all night. However, I'm not playing DBD to be the team's designated totem cleanser every single game. If every team suddenly needs at least one person doing totems all game in order to progress then there's a problem there. Don't care about changing your mind because I doubt you will.
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based :)
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I would not be opposed to a Hex meta, I just don't think the game is in an appropriate state for that yet and doubt BHVR really anticipated the impact the 4% increase for Thrill would have.
For starters, anti-Hex perks aren't great at dealing with the threat of Thrill. Knowing where totems are isn't the primary problem, and that's what most of those perks do. Getting benefits from cleansing totems (Overzealous, Inner Strength) also doesn't help. The problem with Thrill is that you often physically cannot cleanse totems as the killer is able to interrupt you before you are through, then also meaning any time you spent trying to cleanse is wasted as cleanse progress resets. Depending on the totem spawns you can perhaps at least cleanse some of them if you attack them simultaneously, but that is of course only realistically feasible for a coordinated SWF group. And even if you do manage to cleanse, none of the totem perks make up for the insane time investment on that, and good luck if the killer is using Pentimento (which could be countered by blessing totems, but blessing totems with Thrill in play is twice as impossible a proposition as cleansing them already is, and the Boon perks themselves also aren't all that great to begin with).
Counterforce is the only perk that appreciably increases cleansing speed, but a lot of people don't know how action speed works in this game. You may think Counterforce's 20% increase in cleansing speed will simply negate Thrill's extra 20% reduction in cleansing speed from this buff, but reductions in action speed will always weigh much heavier because as action speed approaches 0% (-100%) action time approaches infinity, whereas increasing action speed by 100% merely halves action time.
In numbers, this means when using Counterforce the first cleanse will still take 14 / (.3 * 1.2) = 38.9 seconds, still more than 10 seconds more than pre-buff, cleansing speed being increased by a mere effective 6% (from 30 to 36%).
I also think Devour, Blood Favour, Pentimento and maybe buffed Crowd Control are too strong in their current state for it to be sensible to be able to fortify them using Thrill, Undying, Dominance, let alone in combination with the various killer abilities/add-ons that can make it actually impossible to ever cleanse. And personally I really enjoy the "high risk; high reward" aspect of Hexes and would not want them to moderate their effects for a meta in which they can be protected much better, or are much more "cost effective" due to the time survivors spend on getting rid of them. I don't want them to be nerfed, so I'd rather they don't overbuff means of protecting them.
12% per totem instead of 14% would already be much more reasonable for Thrill. Or alternatively staying with 10% but also having a 5% increase in pallet breaking and vaulting speeds or reduction in hit and stun times for every token.
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Complains about totems are because in latest patch there was a change that basically turn everything around and made things that were meant to be high risk - high reward into no risk at all - high reward.
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No risk? Just stop it. Thrill can be removed from the match permanently within the first couple minutes of the game and then the killer is down a perk slot for the rest of the match.
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yep no hex no perkslot anymore. Its a high risk for killers and Hexperks must therefore be strong. They have to be. Otherwise the risk is not worth it
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hex face darkness proc every 25sec making it nearly impossible to stop. Even if you manage to cleanse one of them it just getting penti. Trying to do the totems is a dummy mission so you basically need to let them have free reign with their hexes. It almost always devour with it of course.
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That's literally the same argument some people used to defend old undying.
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Except that hexes have not been high reward for years now. The only hex that is actually worth the risk is devour hope. And even that one takes some time to get going.
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To be fair, survivors are a team. They have 16 perk slots to counter all the bad tactics. While the killer has only 4 perk slots against survivors. Whose fault is it that some survivors want to be greedy and prefer selfish builds?
Thinking in the spirit. Better him than me. I don't want to take responsibility.
I always remembered the line from the movie SAW 6.
The one who should live and the one who will live. These are two completely different questions in the face of death.You always want to, but do nothing to survive.
Survivors have many tools to counter the killer, which they do not want to use.
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You know it doesn't work if no one is injured or if the damned survivor is hooked, all you need to do is stay in the chase for longer than 20 seconds without getting hit, loop and pre-drop, then other survivors will easily destroy totems
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People keep saying survivors have 16 perks but I must be missing the feature in the game where I can select other survivor’s perks and dictate how they play a trial. Without some long, unrelated response that contradicts what you’ve said can you walk me through how I do that?
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You must be really new to the game then.
Ruin is used more than it.
NOED is used more than itPlaything is used more than it
Penti is strong…
Blood favor is strong…
You have a long way to go it seems.12 -
"Survivors have many tools to counter the killer, which they do not want to use"
This is a very important point that should not be ignored. It's just like in real life: Make yourself as comfortable as possible, and if that doesn't work out, then complain, yep.
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So I have 4 perk spots to counter camping, tunneling, slugging, bloodlust/chase, killer aura reads, slowdown, and now hexes. Given that 4 of those are base kit for killers, then that doesn't really leave room for much else.
How many perks do you think one survivor should be expected to run every match?
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4 perk slots to counter tunneling, camping, slowdown, blindness, killers who are oppressive in chase and now an overbuffed Thrill of the Hunt?
That is impossible.
Survivors get 4 perks, not 16. They cannot control their teammates' perks, they can only choose their own build.
Well said, friend.
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SWF survivors with friends. Will this answer satisfy you?
Just look at what happens to killers when they meet SWF
Even a team of competent solo players who know what to do can instill fear in killers.
Tell me why players choose the path of greed, when the only option is for the other three survivors to die? Why do players think not about the common good of the team, but about themselves?
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You posted a screen that doesnt really help your case.
The second "solo" screen shot the survivors points are so low, that it looks like chase never happened or a single heal.
It honestly looks like this person just afked all round, and then quit in your examples.
And really really…. The second screen seems sus as hell for "solo" when I see several "just so happened to have synergy" perks and copies that your teammates do. I realize overwolf isnt showing anyone in your discord but you could just turn that off. Or your original screen wasnt an swf and you were just talking to friends.
This whole thing seems manufactured.12 -
That doesnt answer their question
How are you supposed to know as a solo what perks your teammates are bringing? The reason why people bring self sustaining perks while solo queuing is because its the most consistent way of getting value out of perks. You have no way of knowing if a teammate has Counterforce, have a challenge, or are just dont have their priorities straight. You have no way of knowing which is which.
Sure you can bring a totem build with this meta, but if some one else brings one then thats at least one person with a wasted perk slot(s), or even worst the killer doesnt even bring totems and now both Survivors have wasted perk slots.
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literally you can just bring a mao and find totems that way . Counterforce speeds up the cleasing . Overzealous for insane gen speeds , detectives hunch if you want to . There so many ways to counter hex builds but folks are to used to the same perks they've been using for 5 + years now .
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Genrush never gave many blood points. And the surviving side is always deprived of blood points when repairing generators. A normal mancer in random simply works wonders when the other three are busy with generators.
I believe in the power of Genrush. And I always follow the rule. Repair the generator in any unclear situation. When the majority adheres to this, miracles happen.
If you had an open profile, I would send you the original via private message. Unlike the surviving side, I am quite honest. I can send the original to anyone who wants, via private message, to confirm my words.
Why does a team need a pre-game chat? You can always notify the team of your intentions.
Perhaps you should insist on the initiative so that survivors in the lobby can see each other's perks, rather than fighting diversity. Since nerfs will not help you.
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Console.
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I'm not one to "flex" but i have been playing since hag release and have 4k hours in this game. Ruin is a horrible perk because base regression is a complete joke, NOED is not a "hex perk" so to speak, Plaything is not really that strong by itself, only with pentimento. Pentimento is hard countered by survivors who just literally pay attention to where hexes are cleansed (and since 99% of the time it is paired with plaything, just don't cleanse the plaything.)
Blood favor is a joke of a perk, you block pallets 32 meters away, but the speed boost the survivor gets from getting hit gives them plenty of distance to get away from the area.
When you look at perks, you need to look at them as "time" how much "time" does this perk buy me. Look at deadlock for example. Deadlock buys you 100 seconds per game of gen defense. In order to get 100 seconds of use out of ruin, it has to regress a single gen for 400 seconds. Obviously each gen it regresses lowers that time, but the reality is that it often isn't even worth the survivor's time to look for it to cleanse. Sure if you run across it spend the time to remove it, but it isn't worth even looking for anymore. Ruin will never give you 100 seconds of pure value that deadlock just GIVES you for free.
Nor can blood favor end a chase fast enough to warrant it.
The only one that can probably do it is pentimento, but you also have to factor in that in order to get pentimento to work, you need to take another hex perk that survivors cleanse, and then you have to go out of your way to go to that spot, and activate it. Likely spending around 15-20 seconds to set it up. And it lowers gen speeds by 30%. If you assume 1 survivor being chased and 2-3 survivors on a gen, it is adding 38 seconds per gen. Which means that survivors would have to ignore it completely and power through 3 full gens before it reaches the same value as deadlock here. Again, a perk that needs no work to get going.
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Its not a gen rush though. In the solo screenshot one person has a toolbox and noone has ANY repair perks whatsoever.
There is no genrush there.
Again your screenshots arent reliable at all. And the response you gave basically doubles down that you are just making things up at this point.
In your "swf" screenshot you had one person with a toolbox and gen perks and none else.
So theres no gen rush happening in either of these. Its just terrible or non existent play by the killer.3 -
Well you have been playing this wrong since that time if you think that or just not paying attention ?
Its hard to say in your case, thats a long time to be completely wrong when it comes to what perks are "worth the risk".
Saying "the only hex worth the risk is devour hope" knowing full well (well you should if you play this game as much as you say) that one of weskers/plagues most popular and powerful builds has plaything, ruin has been reworked for several months now which is why its being picked, and then you just ignore NOED I guess for … some reason.
Tells me you just dont know that much.
Blood favor is not worth the risk? Yea I mean you are free to believe that but perma blood favor on its own all game, you win. Theres not enough distance or pallets outside of gideon for survivors to do anything. And its probably not even that bad on gideon as everything is so close together.
I dont really want to engage if you think Penti isnt worth the risk. ButYou need to branch out of whatever perks you are stuck in, as it seems you play a single way maybe and thats why you think the only "hex worth the risk" is devour hope.
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Because with Killers like Pig, Cenobite or Onryo the amount of side things to do gets amplified. Imagine a Pig with Hexes: Thrill, Plaything and Face the Darkness, Pentimento. The match is now Totem simulator with trap searching.
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I don't think it works that way. No perk or even combo should be so powerful that the opponent must run X to counter. Perks should help you but not game break.
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If the survivors repair one generator per person and 2-3 generators are ready for the first hook. Then this is a gen rush that hits the killer's morale very hard. It's a matter of technique to repair the remaining generators. M1 is the greatest weapon of the survivors. The main thing is to use it wisely. Isn't it fun to crush the hopes of the invincible tactics of the Skull Merchant chess? This is the true potential of the survivors.
Problems arise because the survivors do everything but repair the generators. I've seen many of these in solo through Bond.
Perhaps because I first played as a killer, I got used to the eternal struggle. I see an opportunity and will do everything to win. Mine or the team's depends on what Bond shows me. For me, it's not a problem to repair a generator in the face if it ensures victory for the others.
The surviving side, on the other hand, sees only the basic quality of life sets. It does not have to make an effort to become better. All that is needed for the victory is given to the survivors by the balance of the game.
Survivor victory by using a competent M1.
You are simply afraid to see the truth. Your right. In the end, thanks to this, I will always win against survivors due to their lack of adaptation.
These two screenshots clearly show what I mean by the power of Genrush, and where the death of the team due to fear and aversion to responsibility. Who has a better chance of surviving?
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This is the right way to think about it. Most perks are almost useless and are therefore almost never used. Now there's a reason for survivors to diversify their builds to deal with guarded hex totems. Behind these complaints, I suspect, is the desire to run a metabuild without consequences.
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Those 2 screenshots are at least over 4 years old?
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Again, its about time efficiency. None of them are ever going to give you time efficiency worth giving up a gen slowdown perk.
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What has changed so dramatically over the years, other than the quality of survivors? The principle of victory has always been the same. The one who fixes generators in any unclear situation wins. Moreover, winning as a survivor has now become much easier with all the quality of life buffs.
If you are interested in a specific interval, then.
Tue, Jun 23 2020 - Sun, Jun 28 2020
Fri, May 29 2020 - Tue, Jun 02 2020
Unfortunately, I can't say more precisely.1 -
Seriously?
Old dead hard, old DS, brand new part, prove thyself, adrenaline, all nerfed since then at a minimum. Maps have gotten smaller, tile logic reworked to reduce it prevent chaining, pallets are weaker.
winning as a survivor has now become much easier with all the quality of life buffs
They have literally, intentionally, and expressly modified the game balance in the past even two years to make it harder to escape. They literally said so, and have published the stats to prove that they're being successful in doing so.
This is so biased it's obscene.
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but that buff to throw pebble Eyy????? 😀
"What was that noise?"3 -
46 seconds to cleanse first totem isnt healthy, sorry.
whatabout, just run x logics don't apply here because it's not even ambiguous. that stuff is broken and it's just funny how minor that 4% buff looked in the patchnotes when in reality it nearly doubled the impact of the perk.
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14% is probably too much, 12% would be a good middleground to try i think.
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i think they should just go to 10% and make this hex into reverse undying - regardless of what totem is broken, thrill of the hunt goes out last.
and then work from there and see if the 10% is good enough or not.
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When I saw the MS paint edit and that his ‘data’ was nearly half a decade old I went ahead and added him to my ignore list. I usually go back and forth some for the lurkers who may read over the exchange but these days I just can’t be bothered. You won’t really get anywhere with people like that.
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BUFF Counterforce!!!
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I would rather face the old survivor perks. At least then the killers had their own broken items and freedom in their tactics. Whereas now I seriously consider using slug as my main tactic. Whereas before it was just a game for variety once every hundred games.
I never had a shortage of kills, both then and now. In all my years of experience I would describe it as seven days a week. I win every six days and only one day a week the survivors constantly run away from me.
The only difference is that hooks are now beneficial to the survivors and the most competent of them can play this card. I literally have to improve myself to continue to be effective.
You have lost a lot, but you have also gained a lot in return. The survivors were a force to be reckoned with, and they still are. It's just that the survivors are the problem. For some reason they don't want to win and will do anything but not generators. It has become normal for them to kill themselves on hooks.
Give me three survivors with the same mindset as me and I guarantee you that I will make the killer's life hell, where he can count on 2 kills at most. As much as I don't like SWF. I have to admit that it is a filter from survivors who don't know M1 is the most powerful weapon of the survivor and can't put pressure on three points at once.
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My question is how do you only have 4k hours in 8 years of playing?
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If cleansing a totem takes 46 seconds it's effectively impossible to cleanse in the absolute overwhelming majority of matches meaning all the remaining totems are zero risk, full value. A hex is not meant to stay in the match for the full duration - the risk part comes from how long you gonna be able to use it / if it stays long enough to be sufficiently valuable.
(and counterforce doesn't change that either; it doesn't actually make it less effectively impossible to cleanse that first totem.)3 -
How about we buff antihex perks instead of nerfing hex perks into near useless niche turf again? Then we can have both strong hexes and strong counter to the hexes. Instead of nerfing anything that's an issue, buff the stuff that counters it. Then use it.
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Serious, slightly unrelated question. Redacting survivor names makes sense even if it's a very ancient shot, but why redact the 'repairing' action text above the gen progress bar? Are you paranoid of people finding out what langauge you play the game in or something?
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Still not a fair comparison since anti-hex perks would need to be brought into every match, even if the killer doesn't have a hex.
You'd also need to give anti-hex perks innate value outside of breaking hexes.
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So killers think that survivors have it so easy and have the ability to counter everything.. Tell us then, what's the best build to counter Aura Reading, Scratch Marks, Grunts of Pain, Bloodlust, Zero staggering when falling, Tunneling, Camping, and whatever other perks the killer decides to bring that can include Repair, Healing, Cleansing slowdowns, Blindness, Exhaustion, Screaming, Exposed, Broken, Oblivious, Pallet/Totem/Gen blocking? - This isn't even including the individual killers power.
There aren't enough perk slots to cover everything, even if all 4 survivors bring a fully optimized build, and as a solo queue player it's even worse.4 -
This is the process:
Killers come up with a build to actually kill which has counters if survivors tried a bit
Survivors feel aggravated if they need to do something other than rush gens and being able to finish the match fast, if they can mock the killer in the process, better
Killer perk gets nerfed along with 3 more killers that are c tier at best
The end
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Literally nobody here even said that.
If Killers must deal with everything Survivors can throw at them, I see no reason Survivors shouldn't also be, fairly, expected to learn how to handle everything Killers can throw at them. And that means sometimes, you bring perks to counter things that may or may not give value, or you learn to play around the meta some other way.
Nobody is asking Survivors to "have the ability to counter everything" and the Killer quite frankly CANNOT bring all of those at once, don't be disingenuous here. Even as Survivor, you are going to get strings of losses because the Killer brought stuff you can't account for. You're not supposed to be ABLE to account for everything, nor is the Killer, literally nobody is supposed to be able to counter everything the other side can throw at them.
And all this forgets a simple fact: You are not supposed to be Superman as a Survivor and you are not supposed to win every game or even the majority of games as Survivor in a horror assym experience. The Devs have all but codified this at this point. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a very good horror experience, would it?
The sooner everyone who plays Survivor embraces this, learns to love it, and learns to play around it, the better. And to add to this, quite a few Killers need to learn that a 3-4k isn't the only goal, either - winning a lot gets real boring after a while.
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Don't forget that the survivors also have map Items with certain offers to track down totems. This saves additional time
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Yes.
Occasionally in the post-game chat of DBD the question of my country comes up when survivors can't come to terms with defeat. Which is a sore subject for me that I would not like to focus on.I want to be ignored and hated for my style of play (camping, tunneling, slugging), and not for the fact that I live in a certain country.
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