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Slugging
Comments
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It wouldn’t work at equal distance. The killer is like 70% faster than the survivor (maybe more? Someone do the math) so they’d always reach it before the survivor could, even if they’re equal distances away from the hatch.
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How does the hatch prevent this when survivors do the same thing when it's 2 v 1? I'm aware some would hide regardless, just like some killers will slug regardless but less people would do it if they didn't have a reason
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Interestingly that's what survivors are doing, making matches go on forever...they just do it when it's 2 v 1 and hide instead of when it's last survivor left. So it encourages people to hide. The best way I can explain it is from my point of view playing survivor... When it's 2 v 1 and I know gens can't be completed, what am I going to do? How do I win? Answer is hide, survive longer than the other player to get the hatch. If they are hiding too then it becomes a long long match. Now if the hatch is removed.... 2 Players left, me and another guy. Gens can't be done. What am I going to do? Hide with no point to it? Hatch wouldn't exist so I'm not going to hide forever in a match I have lost and can't escape, I'm going to attempt to do gens, maybe end the match with a chase so I can go next.
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If both survivors hide long enough for the Killer to DC both would get an escape when the Killer DCs. If the Killer finds one then the last survivor would just continue hiding instead of the Killer being able to force an EGC by closing the Hatch.
If your concern is in the two survivors hiding example wasting time a more constructive solution would be crows starting on the basis of no activities to progress the game (eg no gens touched, no chases, no heals etc) after x minutes instead of essentially going AFK in usually a locker starting the crows timer.
It's important to note though that in terms of player behaviour, attitudes and motivation there's no difference between Killers who slug the second last survivor and survivors who'll hide in the hopes of getting Hatch. It's the same type of behaviour just expressed differently because of the game role.
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Its equally an offence to hide forever avoiding the objectives so if they did report that survivor to bhvr they would be shooting themselves in the foot as bhvr would also see that they have been holding the game hostage.
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Slugging and hiding are very different, slugging is acceptable at any point in the match. Avoiding the objective for a prolonged time (not doing gens) is called holding game hostage as it doesn't progress the match and doesn't allow normal gameplay. This alone shows they are very different.
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I reported the 2 survivors who held me hostage and I don't know if BHVR ever did anything about it.
The thing is it's much much harder to prove survivors are holding the game hostage than it is to prove the killer and another survivor are teaming. All you gotta do is take a quick video clip of it happening and send it in. Much harder to do when survivors are hiding and refusing to progress the objective.
Either way both are against the rules. It's just that if the hatch was removed as a mechanic, it's basically the only option the survivor would have. That or just walk up to the killer and wait to die.
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I play with friends.
Killers with any sort of instadown ability can slug you basically forever with zero counterplay if they are halfway intelligent.
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Nobody has ever been banned for avoiding AFK crows and hiding. The BHVR claim that it's bannable was either erroneous or outdated.
I've never found a single example of one, even anecdotal. I've also run into the same trio who claim they do it almost every game (and come in with builds specifically for it) multiple times over a few weeks. They hid every time. I reported them every time.
Never banned.
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I would say it's harder to prove survivor is working with killer, all killer has to do is chase that survivor while they are lead to the other person. Chase is part of the game 🤷♂️ killer can't help it if they can't down them then "oh look the other survivor"
I agree without hatch the survivor would have the choice of walk up to killer or hide. But my point is they have that choice now even with the hatch. It just happens sooner. Walking to the killer would be the best way to go next after a lost match... They could try doing gens even tho they know it's a death sentence. Or after a while of hiding give aura so killer can at least chase them. Or maybe after 4min of hiding the egc automatically kicks in to minimise time wasted.
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Bhvr doesn't discuss bans so if someone was banned for this specific reason not many people would know about it. But it's besides the point, last info was that it's reportable and it's something that has previously been confirmed multiple times. So unless there has been a recent change which means it's not reportable then it still is as far as I can see. Difficulty in proving it might come into it but it's still reportable
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Where was it confirmed? AFAIK aside from one BHVR quote, I haven't heard anything.
This was a team with a full stealth setup who hid from the start. One literally has 'DbD hide and seek professional' in their Steam profile. All have Cyrillic names and I think one is a TTV.
Never banned.
I can find anecdotes of people banned for a variety of things on Reddit, and not a single one for this.
It's either not bannable or it's technically against the rules but never enforced.
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People do blame the devs, however they do nothing and actually don't even acknowledge the problem. I would like to say that if you insta-down the first survivor in 5 seconds and they kill themself on hook and the rest of the survivors just stop trying and you still choose to slug for the 4k, lol. Wow, you're truly part of this community.
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It's been confirmed various times, I only have a couple of them saved but there are others that might have other screenshots. I haven't seen anything to say it's not reportable. If it's not enforced then I guess it's fair game lol. Personally, my way works for me... Slug, if can't find 4th then I keep 3rd alive as long as possible and play the long game. 3rd can quit and take the DC penalty, they can afk and let me carry them around the map until server ends or they can risk helping me to rat out the 4th (which is difficult to prove especially if I dont give the hatch as reward for helping). In the same respect I have played with the same survivor multiple times, each time they have helped me to wrap up the match...they even said they knew it was me because of my playstyle and killer so knew what was coming lol and they haven't been banned yet because I still see them from time to time. Point is doesn't mean it's not reportable just because people can get away with it.
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When are those from? I'm not even sure if Peanits understands the problem (abusing certain mechanics to avoid crows).
My point is that clearly nobody is getting banned for this.
I'm saying that I reported this specific group twice and they clearly do this a lot without ever being banned for it.
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They introduced the hatch for that exact reason. It was not always in the game. Players would hide in a 2v1 before hatch was introduced. Then they introduced closing the hatch and EGC because of hatch standoffs that would last for hours.
Because the difference between a 3k and a 4k is winning and winning harder. You have a hard coded win condition with a 3k. Players are making up alternative win conditions for a 4k. It never matters in a single game outside of adepts or very few achievements. It's the same reason I don't try to win by 20 if I'm already winning by 10 in a pickup game of basketball. Basic sportsmanship.
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One was back in 2017 not sure on the other one. If people don't get banned then I guess it's fair game, they clearly still do it regardless of it being reportable. But I will say based on the only clarification we have on the matter (being from a dev member) then it's a risk... All it takes is 1 ban and if someone does that get that 1 ban then it's on them.
Sorry my bad not 2017...2020.
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Slugging to create pressure is different. Slugging the second last survivor to try to circumvent game mechanics that were put into place to stop time being wasted is just the flip side of the coin of trying to get the Killer to DC by hiding.
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Yeah that's the one I'm thinking of then. Different era of the game, tricks for avoiding crows weren't as widely known.
This was also the era of 'survivors placing themselves on inaccessible terrain to take the game hostage is against the rules but we're not banning anyone for it' Mandy posting if I recall. But that's neither here nor there.
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Slugging for 4min max is very different to hiding for 20+ min. It's no different to hooking someone and have hook timer as the killers timeframe to find the 4th. Slugging as a tactic is used to circumvent hook related perks, using it to get round the hatch is no different as the 4th can heal their team mate just as they can unhook. It's not about trying to get people to DC like hiding is. Deliberately slugging the whole team and refusing to hook them might be considered similar to trying to make people DC but even then it's only 4min. It doesn't force them to wait out until 1 hour server ends which is what people hiding try to do.
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Such a heated discussion. This is, by the way, about wasting the killer's time, when the hatch was more accessible. The killer's kindness was perceived as weakness. I like to conduct various experiments.
If we take this aspect of the slug, I would like to solve it together with those 2 minutes of collapse when survivors waste my time. It's like the law of balance of the universe, when you take someone's time you must give it in return so that there is balance in the universe. An equal exchange.
I also have a collection of screenshots where the hatch appears next to the survivor, where he has a chance to escape. I mean why sometimes I don't want to hang a survivor on a hook, because by some coincidence the hatch is near the fourth survivor.
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It's pretty much the exact same thing. The only reason why it's only for four minutes is because BHVR put a hard cap on the time before someone bleeds out. If it were an hour to bleed out the same Killers who now slug for the 4K would telling Survivors to go watch a TV or grab a sandwich.
The bottom line is you're wasting another player's time instead of progressing the game as intended; any Killer who slugs the second last survivor for the 4K is not behaving any better than the Survivors who hide out and wait for Hatch.
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Your entitled to your opinion but I disagree, a killer that deliberately keeps the 3rd survivor alive to bring it to server end yes that's the same as survivors hiding. But leaving a slug on the ground is no different to hooking them then looking for the 4th, just gives killer that extra bit more time to find them. It's irrelevant saying if slug timer was 1 hour because it's not. And like you said there is a reason why its not, to stop killers from taking the p*** with it. But survivors do have the equivalent which is hiding for 1 hour and basically saying to the killer, quit or go watch TV for an hour so they can take the p*** with it. Maybe if hidden people had timer of 4min like slugs get then it wouldn't be an issue. Either way, my work around is keep them both alive. No slugging, no hooking. I do what survivors do, make it last the full hour if need be. In the end I still get the 4k and they still don't escape. It wouldn't surprise me if other killers start doing that too the more survivors try dragging it out for an hour.
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It's the survivors fault if the killer chooses to pick nurse with slugging build and let them bleed out, while humping. Yep
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This is the first time I’ve heard of this idea for hatch. And I really like it. Skill actually mattering in this regard. The only thing I wonder is in this situation, say a survivor does really well all game, they never got caught by the killer they were in Chase most of the match , but the killer was able to sacrifice the rest of their team— wouldn’t the killer BP/points be automatically higher at end game because of the other sacrifices? For example the killer outplays the “team” but not necessarily every “survivor”, and the one survivor they didn’t outplay would be a good candidate for hatch because their team failed but not them, but because the amount of BP/points killer has from sacrificing the rest of the team means their BP/points automatically higher than that last surviving survivor, wouldn’t that mean that they would get the hatch by default? In order for this to work would you suggest a rework of the BP or emblem system? (As it stands form what I’ve seen, I think it’s wild that someone could loop the killer for the majority of the game and often gets the lowest amount of points in comparison to those who did gens, when keeping the killer busy in chase is arguably the most difficult/skillfull part of survivor.)
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Oh, the emblem system being the basis was mostly just a starting point, as it provides some (of course not all) insight into performance metrics on a system that's already in place. They could do things like weigh certain emblems for each side: Unbroken has some pretty hard cutoff points, and if you max Evader you probably didn't get much chance to work on the other emblems. Likewise some killers suffer from awkwardness in generating devout or malicious, and so on.
Generally playing both fairly and in a more rounded fashion tends to go hand in hand with increased emblem scores, so it feels like a good idea to start around. Of course this could also go alongside changes to how the emblems currently work, as rank only really matters for BP anymore (and could certainly use a few updates.)
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Gotcha! Yes, that makes sense. I’m all for it. Good idea 👍
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when you play as killer, the other 4 are your enemies, just like 5 guys from other team in counter strike or idk valorant. sure you play WITH them as in the same match but they are not your teammates. your job is to kill them, put them down, not let them escape. you should only care about that. ofc sometimes when you see survs are just playing around, doing dumb stuff so you play WITH them making more points etc. but most of the times survivors are your enemies as killer. killer's job i to put them down and not letting them escape.
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if hatch didnt exist then slugging would be pointless. hatch is basically to shorten game by forcing 4th surv to escape after 3 are dead but it means 1 can always escape so killers are slugging 3rd one to get that last one. not players fault but devs, always
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well if they slug you not for 4k but just to leave there they are 100% toxic, but im talking about survs who cries because killer are slugging for 4 kills
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most of them still blame killers and not devs. nah, they simply don't care enough about players to change anything.
if they stop trying then there is no need for slugging for 4k but i always make sure they won't change their mind, i was fooled by that few times, and fooled by killer as survivor too… which means i hook normally first 2 guys and if 4th is close to 3rd i don't slug but if i don't see the last one or im not sure if he is around i do slug because i don't like chasing last 2 guys for another 5 minutes who at this point are just wasting time because 2 surv can't win probably more than 90% games.0 -
It's going to get nerfed, is what's going to happen to it. Survey kinda proves that the devs have something in mind related to slugging.
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No. There is a third way.
To be better.
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I have noticed that survivors are adapting and we won't go down easy. It used to be survivors giving up, DCing, but we are getting smarter.
We shouldn't have to carry perks to counter something that only gives us a one shot at getting up and most sluggers wait for it. Slugging has become an every game occurrence and I blame content creators for it. It wasn't this bad until they got rid of Prime Gaming and started making their players watch Twitch videos. Sad part is by the time they do something about it a lot of players will be lost.
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So what you're saying is that I should pursue my goal in any setting regardless of what the people I'm sharing it with think?
Please don't respond by saying 'it's the killer's goal'. I'm interested in the answer to that exact question. If I have a goal, should I pursue it regardless of what other people feel or think about my approach to achieving my goal?
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Continuing, if we leave aside the issue of 4 kills. Let me shed light on the issue of slugging two survivors from a slightly different angle.
Sometimes I am not inclined to kill 4 survivors and am ready to play the hatch. In fact, I have some gradation of how much I want to kill survivors. Various situations happen to me, which I will describe now.
Situation 1. There are two survivors left in the game. I hang survivor number 3 on the hook in the hope that he will kill himself so that survivor number 4 and I can play the hatch. As a result, I get meaningless saves that waste my time. I can conclude that the survivors want to stay with me until death.
Situation 2. Swamp. I kill the third survivor. I do not like searching in the swamp without perks and certain killers. The race for the hatch begins. I find a survivor who decided to waste my time repairing the generator. He knew where the hatch was and how to get there safely, but he preferred to farm extra blood points.
Situation 3. One of the two survivors was not hanging on the hook. I see that survivor 3 is trying and doing something. Survivor number 4 did maximum rescues from hooks and disappeared into the fog. Leaving survivors number 1, 2, 3 to my tunneling. That is, the survivor refused to take responsibility for the rescue. Yes. I have my own twisted sense of justice.
Situation 4. The survivors want the hatch so much that they are stalling for time. The situation you discussed in the thread. Only in defense of these survivors I can say that they were really scared against Singularity. I was more amused by the situation. I did not even look for the fourth survivor. We met him at the gate.
06/20/2023 The survivor was found at 07-50. Only most likely I was looking for them for much longer. I started filming the katku after a long search.
I always think that it is better to analyze situations using specific examples, considering various options. Both from the side of the survivor and from the side of the killer.
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what? do you understand that as killer you do not share any goal with survivors in the first place?? not youre trying to flip the situation or what?? you don't even understand what i'm saying….
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you should carry perk… that's why it was created.. with your logic flashlights, grenades should be removed from game because i shouldn't have to take lightborn in every game because survivors might use grenades or flashlight (because in lobby you see their items but if they change it right now you don't know). why do i have to carry one perk that is useful only in specific situation? same dumb thing. you take perk to have chance to fight against something or you don't, your choice.
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your first situation is the main reason why i never hook 3rd guy if im not sure where 4th is. they are always wasting much more time with this than me leaving 3rd guy to bleed out without intention of hooking him
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Except that one is proportionally way worse than the other…
There is nothing wrong with slugging. It's an essential part of the game. I'd love to be able to just send survivors to the hook/cage but it's not going to happen.
The problem is BM slugging and bleedouts, which are very rare and also on BHVR's radar to fix. The problem is that attempts at fixing this before wound up breaking the game at higher levels of play, where slugging is an absolutely crucial part of the game.
Stop, you're getting straw all over the place.
Slugging is fine. Bleeding everyone out to BM is not. Slugging for the 4k isn't nice, but it could be ended by the last survivor just giving up and not wasting everyone's time.
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It's Killer entitlement.
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It's not proportionally much worse though. It's the exact same reason, intention, and the old Hatch standoffs showed for how long it can go. What is proportionally worse is people propagating a false us vs them when Killer players are just as guilty of the exact same behaviour as Survivor players.
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Give Killers basekit Deerstalker. When I slug I survivor to apply pressure, I have every intention of going back to hook them eventually. But most of the time, the survivor crawls away to a hiding spot or obscure corner of the map so I can't find them. I'm not going to waste a whole bunch of time trying to find them if I can't find them right away. It's pretty irritating that survivor players complain about being bled out for 4 minutes while many of them intentionally make it difficult for the killer to find them after they've been downed. I think a good percentage of players being bled out are due to the killer not wanting to take the time to find them. Giving killers basekit Deerstalker would make it quicker/easier to find downed survivors and I think would significantly reduce slugging. If after 3-6 months the data shows that it's not effective, then revert the change and try something else. But at least it's worth a try.
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I understand what you're saying: You're suggesting that because the killer's goal is to kill the survivors, they should do it by any means available.
But that disregards the gameplay experience of the survivor who gets slugged in the slug for 4k, and even the last survivor to some extent. This isn't flipping the situation at all; just addressing the impact of certain player actions on other players in the game.
Also, this isn't a misrepresentation of any argument (i.e. it's not a strawman). This is just an analysis of the impact slugging for 4k has on the enjoyment of players in the game.
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ah yes.. crawling, dumbest decision to make when 4th survivor doesnt even care about helping
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ofc killer should do it by any means, thats the point of adding different mechanics ending survivors life.
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