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How I think basekit unbreakable could be done without absolutely obliterating killers
What if we just let survivors that have maxed out their self mend press their active ability button to get up at the cost of a hook state and taking the incapacitated status effect for a while to prevent them from immediately picking up other survivors (or anything to prevent them from picking others up), also functioning as a bleed out button when survivors are at 2 hooks. This would make slugging all survivors significantly less powerful since it is no longer a win condition while remaining easy to understand and not completely killing off slugging as a situational strategy (for example when you know someone is about to go for a save) or taking away too much of a killers reward for snowballing and getting multiple downs in a row (up to 4 hooks as a reward, spread throughout the team)
(also some form of basekit deerstalker because I absolutely hate losing slugs)
Comments
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More power to the hands of griefers
Much easier to throw matches9 -
Unbreakable shouldn't be base kit. It doesn't really solve any problems here.
The only time this could possibly even work is if the killer is just slugging all 4 at the start of the match, and even then it only shows down that strategy, doesn't stop it. They'll just continue to play whack a mole until bleed out if they're determined.
The most common slug is slugging for the 4k. So even with unbreakable, instead of patrolling the map, the killer now camps the slug to keep them in the floor for 4 (ish) minutes. This isn't an improvement.
Just allow survivors to bleed out faster or outright give up instantly when at most one survivor is left standing and they've hit "find help". It doesn't change the game outcome, and actually respects the players time to move on from an already lost game.
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People need to learn the best way to avoid being slugged is to play strategically as a team.
I think people already know that the best way to do literally anything in DbD is as a team.
Unfortunately, the game is designed to have zero tools to make this happen as a core part of the game. In fact, it's so bad that the only universal action that every survivor can do is still miscommunicated. Does flailing your arms on first hook mean "don't come, the killer is camping" or "he's gone, it's safe to unhook"?
Because that isn't even consistent in the community.
Personally I'd rather the match just end like how the survivors die if they don't get out the gate in EGC. Just have everyone be auto killed if they all go down
They tried this in a ptb. The finisher Mori they tested a year or so ago was one of the worst ideas they've ever had, and got so much backlash they scrapped it for a year to eventually just make the Cypress Mori base kit instead.
Killers just started trying to slug everyone as the win condition, which is an obvious consequence of doing exactly what you said. And, I'll add, that same ptb they also tested infinite unbreakable for survivors specifically to prevent that. It didn't work, killers were still going for the 4 man slug win even then, and there was a video with an Oni who won that way in something like 2 minutes or less.
Just get rid of hooks at that point, because this suggestion is terrible.
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how about if someone is slugged for 45 seconds and (unless they have UB or have activated Plot Twist) the entity swallows them and puts them in a cage/hook a la pyramid head/2v8?
That way it mitigates some of the concerns of the killer - that they don’t want to pick up in case of a sabo/fl/DS/back ground player range etc.
I don’t know I’m sure every solution will have drawbacks or whatever but this gives the killer a risk-free hook after a period of time and also prevents the killer from bleeding someone out. Might probably need refinements and adjustments with activation/deactivation criteria based on certain circumstances but hey worth testing on a PTB perhaps?
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You're advocating for literally the finisher mori from a year ago, specifically:
Whenever an 4 survivors are slugged, the game ends with a killer 4k.
The obvious implications here is that the rest of the game no longer matters. Killers have no need of hooks because they're just going to slug. No one is ever going to try and hook 12 times, or even the minimum of 6 times when you can just leave them in the ground and eventually win by default.
They scrapped this. It was a terrible idea then and it's even worse in your iteration because you're saying the survivors should still have to get themselves up with only perks. Even the devs realized that was going to be a problem, and tested a base kit unbreakable in that same ptb.
Your treading old ground here. They not only already tried this, but the community absolutely did nothing but try to slug for wins and never hook. That's not DbD, it's an entirely different game objective that DbD isn't designed around.
It was a terrible idea that everyone told them shouldn't go live, and they stopped it. There's no reason for us to try and revisit it, especially with no other changes to the game in the process.
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I don't think a fast bleed out/give up option would actually improve things in many cases. We already see survivors sit there on hook and hit their skill checks to deny teammates hatch. Any solution that puts the onus on a player to concede shouldn't be considered, because the solution breaks down the second a player refuses to do so, and you're left with the original problem.
At this point, open 2 hatches and give the last person standing crows if someone has been slugged for 90 seconds in a 2v1. Players can still slug for a 4k, but they have a limited time window before they risk a draw. Make it risk/reward.
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I'm so glad you don't work at bhvr. They already tried your stupid "everyone dies if they're all slugged" and it was terrible, and EVERYONE HAD BASEKIT UNBREAKABLE! Everyone slugged for the 4k cause that was the easiest win condition. So you just wanna give more incentive for slugging with no way to counter it? They need to change the game completely and rework it to fit a slug only game. You're just one of those salty killers who got upset cause you lost an unbreakable
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All they need to do is make it so that if 2 or more survivors are slugged then you can pick yourself up from the ground if you are fully recovered
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Just bring unbreakable
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- show killer hook stages per survivor
- survivors who were not hooked yet have unbreakable with cost of hook stage
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Unbreakable should be basekit as a once per hook state with a 60-90 second requirement to prevent killers from slugging multiple people at once.. there are countless times where ill see a killer slug 2 people and then get greedy to go for a 3rd, sometimes even 4 and you're just stuck
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I love how every single thing the killer can do in this game is seen as a problem that needs an immediate solution. Survivors can do whatever they want to win and that's fine. When the Killer does the same, we need 4 more basekit meta perks.
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It's…an idea.
How do you deal with unhookable squads then? You know, the ones running Boil Over and similar perks who'll send you to DDS, Asylum, Ormond etc. where there are multiple spots where there is only 1 hook spawn (that can be easily sabod) or you cannot hook someone if they have BO at all, sometimes without even bodyblocking required.
It would also completely break the balance at higher levels of play.
Also - wait. Aren't you the person who defended teams hiding all game to grief and threatened to quit if it was reportable?
I think I can understand why you'd want that…ugh.
Eh.
Heavy slugging because it's the only way to counter a TTV group that refuses to progress the game and just wants to meme on you forever with sabos, boil over and saves? Or because it's a hide and seek squad? 100% justified.
Heavy slugging because you just want to waste everyone's time? That probably needs a fix.
How do you fix one without the other? That's a puzzle.
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See above.
I get sent to Ormond by a full SWF. They have sabos, everyone is running Boil Over and the second someone is chased they run to <redacted>, where they literally cannot be hooked from. At present, the only way to handle them is to slug as much as possible and try to prevent pickups.
How do I handle this situation where everyone can just pick themselves back up?
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I agree that slugging for no reason just to waste time is cringe and needs to be addressed. And the easy way to do it is with a simple concede feature
Many people, though, demand "fixes" for every killer strategy that isn't epic wholesome hook everyone twice before getting a kill. And that would be understandable if epic wholesome 12 hook wasn't such a terrible strategy against any survivors with two braincells. So its very funny to me when survivors can do whatever they please to get gens done at record speed but killers must be punished if they do anything that could be in their favor too.2 -
You act like these unhookable squads are an every match thing? 90%+ of matches will never have that issue and 60-90 seconds is more than enough time for you to secure your hook, if you can't then that's a you issue.
Also taking away immersion in this game is what ruined it to begin with; making "hiding" a bannable offense is literally like saying "doing gens" should be a bannable offense. You're a killer, you're supposed to be hunting.. stop being lazy and check lockers.5 -
You're…really defending hiding for 20 minutes, going from locker to locker to bush to (way to get rid of AFK crows) to stall the match out?
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Twins, dr and wraith with disgusting anti heal build is the prime sources of it.
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Wasn't the final mori and UB basekit on the PTB and failed miserably?
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If the survivor picking themselves up is the same as a hook state then you will find killers that will choose to only slug. One of the drawbacks of killer is having to pickup and hook a survivor. You run the risk of saves, stuns, and sabo plus it takes time to do.
Getting multiple slugs will pressure survivors into taking that hook state. A hook state the killer doesn't need to risk to spend time doing. In the end it will only encourge slugging outside downing near a hook.
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should only be possible when there are 2 survivors left to discourage slugging for the 4k. Having it base for everybody would be awfull.
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I do think the idea has merit. The problem with basekit unbreakable as a concept is that there is no trade off, its a substantial change to the game that also would require working a large number of perks.
Going through your suggestions:
Trade off a hook state for a free up - I think this could work and there is now decisions to be made on both sides. The killer still gains the benefits they normally would from a slug (not having to carry, not risk of a pickup), while survivors now face a danger. If they stand back up they get a hook state/die, meaning the killer got the benefits of a hook without ever having to hook, but they get back in the game. It also requires a decision on the survivors part on whether it is worth it to stand back up or if another survivor is coming and might get them up without the hook state.
Be incapacitated - I think this goes too far. Being able to pick up other survivors is one of the only reasons a survivor might want to be able to stand up. An incapacitated status effect along with a hook state would make this a buff to killers in the vast majority of games where survivors would stand back up just because they were bored.
Bleed out button - this is really its own suggestion and I'm surprised BHVR is so reluctant to put something like this in.
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Devs did offer the fair 4 man anti-slug mechanic - auto - end game mori. Survivor players didn't like that. Yet there still are complaints about being slugged and forced to bleed out. What can I say - sometimes you get what you've asked for, even if you don't like that.
Basekit unbreakable should never exist in the game. Unbreakable is already the one of the most broken features that was ever introduced into the game.
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Basekit unbreakable was a mess in that PTB but from what I've seen the past few days, Unbreakable is pretty much a mandatory perk for a survivor to take in Solo Queue during this event. The amount of value, game changing value, I've got from it the past day, is probably more than I've got out of it in 3 years.
Also, I don't run it but also have seen several survivors get up off Adrenaline.
If killers keep this up than BHVR is going to do something. And it will be fully brought on by all the killers that are pointlessly slugging at the moment. I'm playing a lot of killer at the moment and understand when it is worth and should be done but at present it's getting ridiculous.
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