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(Another) Hot Take: Your MMR Doesnt Matter, Stop Bringing It Into Debates/Arguments.
I always see people say "well I am high MMR" whenever they talk about balancing discussions and I really have to question how it is even important or relevant to anything.
Most people can agree that the MMR system isnt really the best, it has a lot of flaws/issues and rewards players for playing the most boring ways possible, often punishing players for taking risks or trying to go for high skilled plays. High MMR does not really feel like something to boast about, especially when it is basically an invisible number that you can only really guesstimate on anyways.
Furthermore, this concept of "I am high MMR" has lead to this elitism where anyone who is new or less experienced gets their opinions invalidated because they are not playing at a high level, despite the fact that new or less experienced players are a very important part of DBD's player ecosystem and hold just as much importance as the veterans or top % of players.
MMR's softcap to begin with is set really low where most veteran or top % of players are facing average (sometimes even below average) players consistently in their games, the matchmaking is so loose that it is the idea of Skill Based Matchmaking in DBD practically doesnt exist. This is mainly because of the focus on finding games fast instead of trying to have quality matchmaking.
Anyways… yea… MMR is a sham and Im tired of people bringing it up. This isnt aimed at a particular person, of course, this is just talking about a trend Ive seen in the DBD community for a long time and I really dislike it and wanted to talk about it.
Comments
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Agree. Especially because those players dont know their MMR. E.g. I face Otz from time to time, but this does not mean that my MMR is as high as his. It just means that I went over the Soft Cap, but I can still be miles under his MMR.
Let alone that people who claim to be high MMR lose games all the time (according to them). This does not add up. Plus, it is unlikely that they are on a special Server with only good players, while others experience random Matchmaking.
And this is what happens - it is random Matchmaking. MMR basically only separates new players from experienced players, I think the vast majority is above the Soft Cap and therefore in one big pool of players. That BHVR also prioritizes queue times over Matchmaking-Fairness adds to this. You can get a strong Killer/Survivors in one game and in the next game the other side plays like they dont know if they are playing DBD or Minecraft.
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Um excuse me. I’ll have you know that I am casual mmr. And things are… perfect over here. Carry on.
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How else are we supposed have a dick measuring contest about DBD?
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I am rather proud of my mediocrity actually. I'd say I'm a competent surv and a lousy killer. Where does that place me? 🤔
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You miss the true purpose of MMR coming into conversations: if one day MMR is publicly revealed it has the potential to be hilarious.
I think the vast majority is above the Soft Cap and therefore in one big pool of players.I think 'vast majority' really depends on on what we define as the player base. Having seen the amount of hours many people put into this game from the stat emails, it would be surprising if they weren't high up.
But I think there are lots of players, the type who don't go to forums, who play the game once or twice a week, or maybe intensely a couple weeks out of the year when events come around and notifications pop up.
Everyone who puts 100s of hours into the game tends to associate with each other. Those players should be at the top just from the experience they have, but I suspect there is a very large pool of casual, occasional players.
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Nobody who is actually good at this game cares about MMR. It's not even a question.
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Actually it's TOP 1% High MMR. High MMR is for casuals
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MMR is actually in 4 brackets:
- 0-649 mmr
- 650-899 mmr
- 900-1399 mmr
- 1400+ mmr
The vast majority of players are in that 900-1399 mmr mark. When BHVR releases data about "high mmr" players, they are likely talking about that 1400+ bracket. So in your case you are probably in that top bracket with otz. But for example it is theoretically possible for you to be like 1400, and otz can be 2100 for example.
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There's a great video that explains not only the brackets by why some players perceive things differently than others:
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I am High MMR!!!!!
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I tried that table, but they just made fun of my shoes.…
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Most of the people (streamers/content creators) I see blowing on about their MMR are the ones who clearly think they are far better players than they actually are. We all know the worst offenders for this…
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I'm convinced 90% of the people who use "Well I'm high mmr" to try and invalidate others probably aren't high mmr and just want a reason to put someone else down and make them seem small. Like no one cares. We're all getting into matches and we're all having our own experiences with the game. Everyone's opinions are valid because the devs need to take different mmr bracket experiences into account when making changes.
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Talk!!! to em
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This is pretty close to the truth. High mmr is very easy to achieve. The mmr ceiling is quite low. There is a higher tier of mmr that was implemented awhile back, but BHVR had stated generally only the professional grade dbd players are at that level.
There is a distinct difference between low mid and high mmr. When people say high mmr, what they actually are saying in reality is that they simply aren't part of the newer or casual crowd. They probably doesn't realize that's what they are saying, but if you are decent at the game and have around 100 hours, you're likely in high mmr. DBD doesn't really have a true mmr system in regards to fair matches. It essentially merely keeps newer players separated out from people who have a decent amount of experience in the game. Once you have some decent experience, then you're thrown into the bucket of chaos where anything goes in regards to opponent skill. Someone with 100 hours can face someone with 5000 hours.
The only exception is that the devs did add an extremely high mmr bracket that's generally only achievable by professional grade dbd players in order to try to keep those players facing each other instead of just stomping on your average player. It's estimated that this top tier is only 2-5% of the game's population.
It's a very different game between these brackets. The higher the bracket, the more powerful survivors tend to be, as survivors have a load of tools available for them to beat the killer. The issue is that survivors need the experience to know how to leverage these tools. Lower brackets get stomped by the killer because the survivors don't really know their actual potential. That's why so many killers start to complain about balance eventually - as one gets into the upper bracket, survivors have more experience to know how to beat the killer, and there is a LOT of power survivors actually has over the killer. People in different brackets see the game very differently - and it all comes down to how much experience the survivor players have. Lower brackets survivors know far less about looping, less mindgames, likely less perk access, less experience facing the numerous available killers, less altruistic moves such as spreading hook states and taking hits. They will perceive the game as heavily killer favored. At the higher brackets, survivors tend to have much more of that information, and a lot of the killer picks become less viable since the survivor potential simply overshadows them. At those higher brackets, the favor starts to swing closer to the survivor side. At the highest tiers, most killer choices simply drop off as unviable which is why we usually only start seeing the same 3 or 4 killers at the highest brackets (usually seen at tournaments, but tournaments usually realize this issue and create rules and regulations on perk use to try to open the tournament up for less desirable killers).
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It’s still better than when people say their opinion matters more because of the number of hours they’ve played.
And it’s still better than when complain that matchmaking must “obviously” be broken because the 5 players in a game don’t have a similar number of hours.
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Not really a hot take, tbh.
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I'm the highest mmr master elite survivor main of all time. The hidden technique to become master is by equipping sole survivor+wake up+Resilience and drop items in a corner
Bow before my high mmr genius.
(Mmr is pointless)
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Keep seeing that MMR isn't real and MMR soft caps you early so everyone is at the same level
So can you explain why Tru3 and Hens get matched up with each other constantly? (along with other comp players)
And why the other big popular streamers in the EU literally almost never get matched up with them?
If you wanna call tru3 bad etc.. Then wouldn't that mean hens is as well? But wouldn't that in turn be you admitting that MMR is in fact real and it works?
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It's quite some cognitive dissonance where people will readily admit the MMR system doesn't really even work, but at the same time will tell killer players to stop tunneling/proxy camping/slugging so they don't get put in an elevated MMR bracket. If you're even remotely competent at killer, you're going to run into the buzzsaws that throw the game balance out of whack
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Explain why Tru3 and Hens get matched up with each other constantly?
First off, Hens has gone on record to explain how flawed MMR is and they dont face each other that much compared to what you are making it out to be. They have made many Twitter posts and videos talking about it.
~ Video from 2 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHk8IcjjSXE
~ More recent example: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F333aLMozLE
~ Another prime example: https://twitter.com/HensDBD/status/1789650564927594822
Second off, region-based matchmaking is a thing. Tru3 and Hens are close enough to get connected towards the same servers due to region-based priority. It doesnt always happen, but it does happen.
Along with other comp players.
Half the time people say they face comp teams without it actually being players who are in the DBD Comp scene. None of this is to say "they dont face Comp teams", but moreso "they face far less than you think".
Also even still, Ive faced actual competitive teams and players, in fact a lot of people have. Ive been destroyed by MomoSeven MANY times despite being an average player and very clearly not suppose to be matchmaking with them. Matchmaking focuses on speed over quality and you are just naturally bound to face competitive teams and players, it's not something special, it's just a thing that happens every now and then.
And why the other big popular streamers in EU literally almost never get matched up with them?
They do but if you dont pay attention or watch them that much you can easily miss that.
Plus regions are a very important thing as well. A lot of people are not going to paired against Hens or Tru3 because they are not close enough to their respective regions, it's why I face the same people sometimes multiple times in a row, because region-based matchmaking takes a high priority.
If you wanna call Tru3 bad, etc… Then wouldnt that means Hens is as well?
I dont think Tru3 is that bad, they win most of their games, I do think Tru3 tends to over-inflate issues or what they perceive as issues.
I do think matchmaking is flawed though, and it opens the door for low quality matches where players are paired against other players of lower/higher skill levels instead of trying to put them at an equal skill level most of the time.9 -
I honestly think it works so poorly that it's not even worth bringing up in discussions most of the time. It must do "something" I guess…
Over the last week, I could not lose a game as Legion playing in Chaos Shuffle. Since the second page of the Tome opened, every single match has been incredibly hard work to get even a 2K out of the trial. Of course, I get useless perks sometimes, I misplay and I'm not playing super sweaty or that differently to usual, but any functioning system should be giving me matches that are somewhere in the middle. The system should be matching me with teams that are slightly worse and slighty better, but the system rarely seems to do so. The skill gaps are typically huge, sometimes from the space of one trial to the next.
As far as I understand it, the event queue doesn't alter your MMR. So how can I be getting such radically different experiences within the space of a week if the system is meant to work in any meaningful way?
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I play against some really good content creators from my region sometimes, but i KNOW that my mmr is not as high as them, and I like it
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Can you please show me this evidence of tru3 matching up with other big eu streamers bar hens?
Because Hens is the literal only one i ever see him match up with
iI'm subbed on youtube and watch his DBD streams a lot, and he literally never gets matched up with say Otz for example
I believe his last match vs otz was when he was playing with his ex wife or ex gf and their friends on midwitch in either early 2024 or 2023
And his last game vs ayrun was on eyrie of crows, who was in otz's swf
Where as he goes vs hens multiple times a year and i believe he just went up against him twice in like 1-2 weeks
I cant name a time in recent DBD where he went up against any big creator other than hens
He could and just not know But his chat tells him all the time so i cant see why
And while yes he doesn't face against comp players every game, im not going to pretend like he only goes up against bad survivors
As i'd say whenever he checks profiles theres like at least a 30% chance of the guy being 1v1 tourny player or comp player
And it doesn't help that a majority of comp players from my understanding use Anon Mode so it could be even higher
I'm pulling these % out of thin air but like i said i watch tru3s streams alot and this is just what i observed
Wether or not you want to call the comp players he plays Bad-Mid-Good They still play comp /1v1s and are better than a vast majority of community
Or he could just be the most sniped DBD streamer so thats why
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Tbf it was Wednesday and your shoes weren't pink 😟
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I don’t follow Tru3 but I follow Naymeti, he’s a top tier survivor main and I’ve seen him face Tru3 a couple of times. Naymeti mostly does solo queue but I believe he scrims some as well.
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But but but the white ones matched my outfit......
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Bruh I cant say Rank 1 anymore, what else is there to pretend flex?
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Top 0.1% PRO killer. Source: I made it up.
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Sounds legit to me.
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Of course MMR matters... it's totally not a measure of the strength for the perks, add-ons, items, killers, or playstyle you play...
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Can you please show me this evidence of Tru3 matching up with other big EU streamers bar Hens?
I would but I have more important things to do with my weekend. I refuse to spend hours sifting through VODs to win a virtual argument on the internet, because it's just not an effective use of my time, It's easier to just write a response. :)
Im subbed on YouTube and watch his DBD streams a lot, and he literally never gets matched up with say Otz for example.
Otz lives in Spain. Tru3 lives in the UK.
Something, something region-based matchmaking, something something, too far away to face one another. You get the idea, I dont need to explain it further, Ive explained it before, DBD has grown a lot and has more servers for different regions that didnt have servers before, etc.
Also Otz and Tru3 primarily play Killer, Hens plays a variety of both sides, Hens is more likely to get paired against Tru3 since he plays Survivor more often… this should be obvious.
But his chat tells him all the time so I cant see why.
Not all the time.
Obviously with figure-heads of the DBD community, you will see it, but you dont need to be a figure-head in the community to be a big EU streamer so it isnt even really relevant to the discussion.
As Id say whenever he checks profiles there like at least 30% chance of the guy being a Tourney Player or Comp Player…
…Meanwhile…
…Im pulling these % out of thin air but like I said I watch Tru3's streams a lot and this is just what I observe.
(There is a long list of examples and things I could bring up but BHVR's Forum Rules wouldnt allow me, Ive had this discussion many, many times before, the dead horse has been beaten to dust by now.)
Also by extension, I dont understand why I am required to sift through hours upon hours of VODs to find examples but you can just pull a number out of thin air and it is seen as fine.
Or he could just be the most sniped DBD Streamer so that's why.
Many streamers deal with Stream Sniping… that's just one of the things about Streaming.
Tru3 isnt the most sniped, there is really no evidence to back it up, but Tru3 does bring a lot of attention to the fact that they get Stream Sniped "often" which could result in people wanting to do it for attention seeking.
Quite literally it is a prime example of this being an issue he is causing to himself.
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he lives in denmark or some other nordic country from what i've seen from his twitter ads and for you section but i could be wrong but thats besides the point as he gets lots of russians and saudis and every other type of European
i think you just said tru3 goes against big streamers besides hens but you don't have anything to back it you just wanted to claim it
i'm not gonna continue this any more since you obv are not interested so good day
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He's gone up against Lynxi. I believe she lives in Norway. Region matters.
Also, when they stream/play matters also. Isn't Tru3 usually off-line when Otz starts streaming? I believe Tru3 streams at 5pm my time while Otz streams at midnight my time. Hens always starts streaming approx halfway through Tru3's stream.
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Can someone explain why people are discussing various streamers, if "no one can know what MMR people are"?
Are people trying to guess what MMR various streamers are, even though "it shouldn't matter" and "we should stop caring about MMR"?
Imagine how much easier this could be if everyone could just see what MMR each streamer was, when they watched that streamer play the game?
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Because of tribalism.
(This is not directed at any particular content creator or streamer.)
Their favorite content creators and streamers constantly behold the idea that they only face top tier teams and never, whatsoever, face average or below average players. They hold this idea because it makes them look better, and they constantly advertise this to get more attention towards their content.
When people are constantly presented with this idea, they believe it at face value without actually taking the time to show this.
This is the same reason why we had the whole "content creators and streamers are de-ranking off stream because they face awful players occasionally" conspiracy theory going around, because people refuse to do research and refuse to accept that their favorite content creators and streamers pushing the idea might be wrong.
MMR has been datamined to hell and back, we know how it works, BHVR has also confirmed in Q&A and on the Forums that it works that way, and we know that it is incredibly flawed. Matchmaking currently has a focus on finding a match quickly instead of finding a quality match, resulting in players of a variety of skill brackets being paired against one another instead of focusing on people all within the same skill bracket.
Keep in mind this is also why the DBD Wiki removed any listed values of MMR because people kept harassing the DBD Wiki moderators because they upset that it made their favorite content creators and streamers look bad. It was also removed for a variety of other reasons, but ultimately it was the harassment that pushed them over the edge.
AUUUGGGHHH, I wish we could have nice things.
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What a bold statement, based off nothing.
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My MMR (Mend Making Rating) is 99999999999. because of Legion.
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Being able to see MMR numbers could very easily fix the problem of "what MMR are streamers, and the people they play against".
No, you don't know if MMR is incredibly flawed. Matchmaking doesn't have a 100% focus on perfect matches, because of player feedback. BHVR made a balance between quality of matchmaking and speed of queue times, specifically because of player feedback. That does not mean that MMR is broken, nor does it mean that MMR doesn't care at all about quality.
We also know that MMR must be doing something, because BHVR has a target range of kill rates, and the stats they gave us showed they reached their target range.
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MMR clearly matters because it's what puts you against other people, and it's the only thing that measures your skill/progress since grade isn't tied to it. The reason why it matters that we talk about the game at high MMR is because the lower level is mostly irrelevant. Anyone can say the killer is the power role at low MMR... when a monkey could beat the kind of survivors you see there. They don't even know what a gen is. So we don't care about that level. To the extent that everyone skill questions the other person, then you could argue bringing high MMR into an argument is redundant. But saying MMR straight-up doesn't matter is like saying rank in other games doesn't matter, when someone in dirt rank is telling someone in diamond rank, "Your takes are bad. You must be bad." You see that on here constantly and it gets validated because everybody has to guess what each other's MMR is instead of simply seeing it. In an ideal world, we would just know what level people are playing at based off of their takes, but because there's so much propping up of stuff like, "Remove Windows or Opportunity!" or "Wraith and BBQ are so OP!", it just doesn't work that way. So we need MMR to help us figure out where we're all at.
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