When are totems gonna stop spawning in the most obvious places for survivors to see?
This is getting a little bit ridiculous now you start a match and still 5 seconds later ruin is gone and gen rush begins.
The totem placments still really need to be reworked or something needs to be placed so that the killer is getting a benefit of a perk being removed not just it's gone deal with it. I will say I have had a few really good placements but majority of the time it's in the middle of nowhere where every time, dick and Harry can see it. Thrill of hunt still doesn't really work
Answers
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The answer is. Never.
Any time a match starts and I see my totem far across the map I cringe. That guarantees it gets destroyed in seconds. I also find defense of totems to be a terrible strategy so its not like protecting it is worth it.
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I have an unpopular opinion in that totem positions are fine. Let's face it, once in a while you're gonna have those easy-to-spot totems, and when that happens your mind exaggerates the situation as if it were standard. It's not.
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Yea I have still spawned right next to totems, the only difference now is that I have to walk around some object to start doing it.
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nah, maybe in the new ranks thats how it could work?
My totems are 75% of the time or more taken down within the first minute and a half and usually quicker than that because of the bad spawns and easy to spot light. Its literally unheard of it last for any amount of time.
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Probably never, try creating a non-hex build.... its probably for the best
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Why do people continue to use hexes if they are consistently cleansed in the first minute or two? It literally makes zero sense yet I see killers carry hexes constantly.
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They're going to get progressively better. It was recently changed so totems could be placed closer to other objects without blocking the interaction, allowing them to be hidden in tighter corners where you can't see them from any angle. As of 2.6.0, there are now also additional LOS checks from survivor spawn points to ensure that totems do not spawn immediately in view of a survivor.
Over time, the more obvious spawn points are going to be changed. There are a lot totem spots to revisit though, and it's not always as simple as moving them slightly.
But ultimately if you are going up against a good group of survivors, they are going to memorize new spawn points sooner or later (if small game doesn't get them first). I wouldn't recommend relying on totems if you're not willing to throw on ToTH and protect them. The entire point behind totems is that you're risking a stronger perk that could be lost part way through the match.
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This is a problem that cant really be solved no matter how good the totem spot.
Survivors will inevitably find it. As of right now if hexes like Ruin were impossible to find I'd argue it would be too powerful.
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It's about 20/80 on,it being in a good spot or right on top on Survivors, unless I'm running my Hexroulette Spirit Build then it's just a bunch of fun. But sadly as Killer and Survivor I mostly find the totems fairly well and quickly
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Even with the recent changes to totem placements, once you've played on a map enough you will learn the new spots just like people learned the old spots.
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Unfortunately Ruin isn't a risk we are choosing to make, it's one we are forced to if we want a game longer than 5 min. It's a Lose/Lose deal.
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BHVR- *Fixed an issue that made totems spawn in predictable and obvious locations.
Totems will now spawn ~
-On top of the Shack roof
-Under the map
-By the campfire
-On top of the basement hooks
-Inside Jane's thick ass
We realized that totems were getting destroyed to easily so we made adjustments, See you in the fog.*
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There is no hex totem worth the perk slot at the moment. Currently your just giving up wantever benefits they grant on the gamble of first sight. Best common scenario is survivors focus on the gens they spawn next to and the totem goes unseen until they start wandering. That is ofcourse if your not using something obvious like ruin.
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Played my Gen Doc build today: Ruin, Surveillance, Overcharge and Make Your Choice (MYC for fun and some potential snowball effect)
And my Ruin spawned across the mao, checked it, no Survivors cried out...went and found a person started chase...Ruin immediately cleasned mid chase and this happened real quick.
It's really a crapshoot on if it'll last long enough or get neutered asap and with how fast Gens can potentially get done, esp decently or very well coordinated groups (SWF or otherwise) Ruin is often a very much needed Perk to at least get one Hook before a match snowballs.
Getting into Perks overall...when running multiple Totem Perks I really wish we could tell which is which...I don't mind protecting multiple ones, but at some point Id like to know which is my Devour Hope/ Ruin :/
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The LOS checks are nice, but it seems to be pushing the totems to spawn closer together. And that's not a good thing. If i chase a survivor through an area, they shouldn't see all of my lit totems.
I'm still wondering whythey are lit in the first place? You could save yourself all of this coding if you just made them all dull.
Then you could even make a perk for finding them, call it "occultism" let it be an "anyone" perk, and let it show lit totems within 5,10,15 meters.
This would be a fair rework of totems. One of MANY i've seen floated. but probably the least heavy, coding wise. Definately less coding then your current choice of fixing the problem.
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I would disagree there. Fast games are due to coordinated survivors, and coordinated survivors can either hit skill checks or memorize totem spawn points. Worst case scenario one person searches for it while the rest split up on different generators. The benefit you gain from it against a good team is marginal. It affects newer players more than experienced players, and you would hopefully be doing well against new players even without it.
If you count solely on ruin to make your games last longer, you're putting all your eggs in one basket, and that basket isn't really going to help anyway. I've started to run PGTW instead and it's been working way better. It doesn't get disabled part way through the game and you can use it strategically.
Even if you just power through a generator with ruin, and you get an average of 6 skill checks (about average, 8% each second, 80 seconds, adds up to 640% chance in total), and if you only hit goods, you would only add 42 seconds.
Pop Goes The Weasel will knock a good 20 seconds worth of progress off a generator each time you use it. You can use it to quickly regress a generator that's almost complete or to protect a specific set of generators. It can't get destroyed, and depending on how well you do, you can use it a bunch of times over the course of one game. The skill level of the survivors you're going against also does not play a factor, they cannot hard counter PGTW.
Yes, ruin would give you more time, but it's got the risk of being destroyed, and it's not really going to stop people from being coordinated and rushing through generators anyway. There's other options out there that are safer and more reliable if you really count on it to slow down the game, but so long as you are running a hex perk, you running the risk of it being destroyed.
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You do give a good explanation and not gonna discredit what you're saying. Ruin can not solely be depended on. You have to use other good Perks/add-ons and awareness to still apply pressure. Pop Goes the Weasel & Overcharge are great surprises and two Perks I love the design & concept of.
However...all this said, it still doesn't account for how Totem Spawns are still flawed and still need to be looked at. I've had numerous spawn right next to me as a Survivor loading into the match (the camera spins around before we start and *Zelda chest open sound effects* there's Ruin/Devour Hope/Lullaby 3 feet from my spawn point. That should NEVER be a thing imo, same with Hex totems being in plain sight of a Gen. Taking a few steps as a Killer to have a Perk rendered useless is not good game design and only Hex Perks suffer as much from such a randomization.
Sure, "don't use them/treat them as expendable" can be said but that doesn't address nor solve the issue that is apparent. Which sucks because the Hex Perks are some of the most fun ones imo...
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I do agree. Part of this is solved with the LOS checks from survivor spawn points. The rest is down to move specific totem spawn points which will unfortunately take time.
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I def understand that, which is why I'm not personally raising Hell about em! ^3^
I just like good discussions and wanted to add my voice and experience to this topic, eso since I am an avid Hex Perk user xD Heck, my main Spirit build (until I ever finish unlocking all teachable Perks) is using 3 Hex Perks...and they're almost always fun games!
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I'm not putting my eggs in one basket as Ruin is the only basket that is available to us. This is the basket that was thrown at us and told to deal with it. I am talking at rank 1 here, the survivors don't even have to be swf to be competent enough to end the game in 5min. PGTW is a very bad perk, you are losing all of your pressure every time you go and hit that gen and that is also requiring a down and hook each time as well, something that is not happening regularly against competent survivors at rank 1. You also not running Ruin means you just lost at least 2 if not 3 of your gens for just your first hook. PGTW is probably awesome at low ranks, but so is every other perk and low ranks aren't where the game has its balance issues like this 5min game problem.
Like you said though, Ruin has a lot less effect on high rank players and I'd agree. The problem is there are no other actually good options. It's the best we've been given.
"There's other options out there that are safer and more reliable if you really count on it to slow down the game"
Which perks are you referring to? The math has been done already on all the slow down perks and most of them are doing very little. In most cases they are all also doing way less than Ruin even when it does get cleansed in the first minute. I think you are way overvaluing how good the games other slow down perks actually are, especially at rank 1.
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Pop Goes the Weasel is nowhere near in the same category as Hex: Ruin as far as I'm concerned. Its a "Win More" perks only good if the game is allready going your way. You need to have hooked someone for it to even be usable and its got a time limit. Not very reliable in my book.
If you manage to get some momentum early, then yes PGTW will be effective at keeping the gens down. If you don't, it will do next to nothing has you struggle to get a hook and gens are firing up left and right.
Hex: Ruin is the opposite. It keeps the gens under control all over the map from the very beggining of the game. Survivors will be doing the gens slower with more risk of screwing up, or wasting time looking for the totem (provided they don't spawn right on top of it, in ridiculously plain sight). Also checking your totem is an excellent way to find your first survivor. And while its true that once destroyed it is a dead perk slot, the longer you can keep it online, the more benefits you will reap from it.
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that Hex: Ruin will always do something for you, even if it last for 30 seconds and is exponentialy valuable the longer it goes. All other gens control perks pale in comparison moslty because they can only by applied manually 1 gen at a time.
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Now where was I going with this ? Not sure. Anyway, survivors should have at least to look around for totems and not just stumble upon them by accident. LoS check is a good first step. Now we need to get rid of the of the plain sight or obvious totem spots.
Right now the only Hexes that get used are thoses who provide an immediate and valuable benefit from the get go or "trap" hexes wich trigger at the end of the game or when the totems are destroyed. All the totems that require some kind of build up are largely ignored because the risk reward ratio is so defavorable.
What if the sound and glow of a totem was tied to its current effectiveness ? So Ruin would be fully lit all the time, but Lullaby or Devour Hope would only start to glow faintly once you get at least one stack on it and glow brighter as you add stacks.
And while we are throwing crazy ideas at the wall, what if Hex: Third Seal prevented survivors form seeing the glow of totems by default ? Would it be worth using then ?
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I mean no matter where your totem is, its more than likely going to be found. So might as well get it out of the way.
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I love how when a killer tunnels the injured survivor it's called "strategy" cuz it's their "objective" to eliminate players from the game but when a survivor does their only real objective it's called Gen Rush.
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Made a long post to sort of say the same thing, but somehow it got eaten when I tried to edit it. Need a bit of time to get used to this forum I suppose.
Anyway I concur. There is absolulty no other perks that provide as much as Ruin does when it come to slowing down the gens. Even with the downside of being a Hex.
But back on topic, while the LoS check at the start of the game is a good first step, some totems spots are still ridiculously obvious. Survivors should have to invest a little bit of their time looking for totems, not just stumble upon them while doing something else.
Messing with the totem's glow and noise seem like an interesting idea. Ruin is definitly powerfull enough to warrant an obvious glow from the start, but what about Hexes like Lullaby or Devour Hope that require stacks to be of any use at all. Theses are considered active from the start of the game despite doing allmost nothing until you get some stacks on them. What if they started the game dull, and progressively lit up and made more noise with each stack you get on them ? Would that make them more appealing ?
And while we are throwing crazy ideas at the wall, what if Hex:Third Seal had the bonus effect of making all the totems look dull. Its thematic and it's not like it would suddenly make Third Seal OP.
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Yeah, stuff like this really needs to stop happening:
Post edited by Saint_Ukraine on1 -
+ 1 to the "Don't rely on Hex perks" movement. Learn to play without them, it's the only way you'll have 4 perks for a whole match.
Even if the totems placements improve, it's only a matter of (a very short) time until the no-lifers memorize them all.
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The thing is, I don't even think Ruin is that good, it's just the best that we have available by far. The rest are trash and Ruin is just barely "passable"
Their changes have been getting them in better spots so it is an improvement, it just still needs a lot. Tbh I'd like if they simply just made all the totems look dull at base. This way they don't ignore all of them and just look for the correct one. The killer would get a little more time as they'd be cleansing all of them and trying to guess the right one. Has the nice little side affect of getting rid of NOED more often as well and we know survivors like that. The killer would be able to see which one was the correct one on his screen though.
For the love of god though please do not make this idea a perk. We need fixes at the base level of the game not more perks trying to patch holes.
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Oh hey, my initial post came back. Now it just look like I'm repeating myself. :p
So yeah in the grand scheme of things Ruin does not even do that much against decent survivors. Its just that in comparaison to the alternatives existing perks or nothing at all, its a shining beacon of radiant hope.
Bandaid perks are never a solution, for sure. I just thought of Hex: Third Seal because we are discussing totems, its possibly the most lackluster of them all and its power is supposed to be hiding stuff from survivors. Frankly it could hide the Jigsaw Boxes and Pools of Devotion and it still wouldn't be that strong. But that is another topic.
At the end of the day because of the random nature of totems placement there will always be the chance of them appearing very close to the survivors. Adding totem protection utility to some neglected perks might not be ideal but its better than creating entirely new perks for that purpose only, I think.
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